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Re: [revelation-list] Thlipsis

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  • Edgar Krentz
    ... The Verb THLIBO means to press. The noun s generic sense is pressure. It gets its specific meaning from context. It can apply to physical pressure,
    Message 1 of 5 , Jul 15 8:29 AM
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      At 9:09 AM +0200 7/14/03, Pere Porta Roca wrote:
      >----- Original Message -----
      >From: "Ian Paul" <editor@...>
      >To: <revelation-list@yahoogroups.com>
      >Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 6:14 PM
      >Subject: Re: [revelation-list] Thlipsis
      >
      >This weekend I spent some time in order to understand or discover what the
      >word 'thlipsis' --Ap 1:9; 2:9.10.22; 7:14; -- really means. I read some
      >related clauses in NT, for instance Jn 16:21.33, and looked at my biblical
      >dictionary (Haag-van den Born-De Ausejo) and realized that this
      >ord -tribulation- unfortunately was not there.
      >
      >So, having thought deeply enough about it I reached to the following
      >provisional definition:

      >In Revelation 'thlipsis' (= tribulation)
      >
      >--is the amount, the ensemble of sufferings of all kind that a believer must
      >endure as a consequence of his christian faith sincerely embraced and
      >heartly lived and brought to practice day after day in all sort of
      >circumstances. (Perhaps the same would be true if we consider the
      >collectivity of believers, the Church? Or perhaps not?)
      >
      >--is not the natural suffering common to all members of the mankind as human
      >beings: heat in summer, cold in winter, sickness, a road accident, the bite
      >of an insect, etc.
      >
      >Now I ask the members of this discussion forum the following two questions:
      >
      >First, do you think I'm right? Would you propose another definition to the
      >word which would be either more precise or more completed, a better one in
      >sum?
      >
      >Secondly: do you find it interesting we, listers, try to make or find a
      >plausible definition to such words -either nouns or verbs or.-- appearing
      >in and to same extent characteristic of Revelation as 'kingdom', 'patience',
      >'tree of the life', 'crown of life' and many others? Would it not be
      >interesting to achieve a little dictionary of definitions of concepts
      >appearing in Revelation that would be the result of our common thinking and
      >debating on the list here and which could be accepted or acceptable for all
      >believers regardless to which church they belong?
      >
      >Pere
      >
      The Verb THLIBO means "to press." The noun's generic sense is
      "pressure." It gets its specific meaning from context. It can apply
      to physical pressure, emotional or pychological pressure, etc.

      --
      ****************************************************************
      Edgar Krentz
      Christ Seminary--Seminex Professor of New Testament, Emeritus
      Lutheran School of Theology at Chicago
      1100 East 55th Street, Chicago, IL 60615
      Tel: 773-256-0773; home phone 773-947-8105
      Office e-mail: ekrentz@...
      home e-mail: ekrentz@ekrentz@...
      ------------------------------------------------------------
      GERASKO D' AEI POLLA DIDASKOMENOS
      "I grow old, constantly learning many things." [Solon of Athens]
      ***************************************************************
    • MORIAH PLASTICS (COATES)
      For those of us who understand Revelation to be framed in the context of whole scripture and the period of persecution suffered by the church immediately prior
      Message 2 of 5 , Jul 15 10:37 AM
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        For those of us who understand Revelation to be framed in the context of
        whole scripture and the period of persecution suffered by the church
        immediately prior to AD70, the word tribulation is to be understood as
        something experienced by what John terms, the martyrs. Christian tribulation
        would therfore be a result of direct persecution, within this context, of
        the believers as a result of their faith and in my further personal
        understanding, from what God allows them to experience as a result of
        testing and world order reaction to their subsequent testimony. etc. I don't
        see John (Rev 1:9) experiencing tribulation for what he actually said and
        did, but rather the sense comes through that John was persecuted because of
        what the gospel meant to the world order of the time. John was exiled on
        account of the gospel. This puts the emphasis back on tribulation as a
        necessary or de facto result for those representing Christianity to its
        logical end
        .
        St. Stephen as the first Christian martyr was not killed actually for just
        what he said. His evidence or testimony, by Christian new covenant
        understanding, was all true and without any falsehood. He was murdered
        ultimately because of the threat that Christianity posed to both the
        religious and political orders of the day.

        Tribulation then is something that the Christian martyr enters into by
        choice. What comes to mind is Rousos Rushdooney's definition of martyr
        (unfortunately I can not currently cite the source. Perhaps somebody can
        find it for us) where he argues that the Christian believer or "martyr", as
        a result of their faith, is a more active prosecutor/witness to the gospel
        rather than a passive recipient of persecution due to a personal belief
        system at odds with the state or religion of the day. This comes at
        wonderfully at Stephen's trial where he becomes the chief witness and
        ultimately the spiritual co-prosecutor in an amazing turn of events. Rather
        then him standing trial the Sanhedrin does instead.

        Jason B. Coates
        Johannesburg, S. Africa
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