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Re: [revelation-list] Morning star

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  • Ian Paul
    ... This is not strictly true. Venus (commonly called the morning star) is actually visible between daybreak and the rising of the sun over the horizon, (and
    Message 1 of 11 , Jul 10, 2003
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      >Re 22,16.
      >Is it logical we translate 'o aster...o proïnós' as 'morning star'?
      >
      >During the morning no star is shining -nor is seen- in the sky because the
      >sun rose,

      This is not strictly true. Venus (commonly called the morning star) is
      actually visible between daybreak and the rising of the sun over the
      horizon, (and is also visible at different times in the light evening sky).
      This is perhaps more evident in latitudes further from the equator, where
      there is a longer twilight (or whatever is the equivalent in the morning.)
      In other words, its appearance heralds the coming fullness of dawn in a sky
      which is already getting light.

      I think there is a strong symbolism here of Jesus as the bearer of the first
      light of the dawn that will only fully come on his return and the full
      revealing of the kingdom of God.

      Revd Dr Ian Paul
      Poole, Dorset UK
      (and a very amateur astronomer)
    • Pere Porta Roca
      ... From: Ian Paul To: Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 6:14 PM Subject: Re: [revelation-list]
      Message 2 of 11 , Jul 10, 2003
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        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Ian Paul" <editor@...>
        To: <revelation-list@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 6:14 PM
        Subject: Re: [revelation-list] Morning star



        This is not strictly true. Venus (commonly called the morning star) is
        actually visible between daybreak and the rising of the sun over the



        Yes... but you do not answer my question: is it logical to translate
        'morning star'? Would it not be better translated as 'the early morning
        star' or as 'the dawn star'?

        Pere
      • Upham family
        Dear Pere, The received text adds the words, and early which is found in only13 Greek manuscripts. The vast majority of the handwritten manuscripts, more
        Message 3 of 11 , Jul 12, 2003
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          Dear Pere,
          The received text adds the words, "and early" which is found in only13 Greek
          manuscripts.
          The vast majority of the handwritten manuscripts, more than 250, do not
          contain these words
          and this includes the 3 oldest manuscripts, Aleph, A and C. The only
          aditional reference for
          moring star in the New Testament is found in Revelation 2:28. Sincerely,
          T.Upham

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Pere Porta Roca" <pporta@...>
          To: <revelation-list@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 11:47 PM
          Subject: Re: [revelation-list] Morning star


          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: "Ian Paul" <editor@...>
          > To: <revelation-list@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 6:14 PM
          > Subject: Re: [revelation-list] Morning star
          >
          >
          >
          > This is not strictly true. Venus (commonly called the morning star) is
          > actually visible between daybreak and the rising of the sun over the
          >
          >
          >
          > Yes... but you do not answer my question: is it logical to translate
          > 'morning star'? Would it not be better translated as 'the early morning
          > star' or as 'the dawn star'?
          >
          > Pere
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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          >
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          >
          >
        • Ian Paul
          ... and Pere replied ... But there is an important issue here regarding methodology in translation and semantic fields. The text appears to be referring (in
          Message 4 of 11 , Jul 15, 2003
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            I said:

            >This is not strictly true. Venus (commonly called the morning star) is
            >actually visible between daybreak and the rising of the sun over the

            and Pere replied

            >Yes... but you do not answer my question: is it logical to translate
            >'morning star'? Would it not be better translated as 'the early morning
            >star' or as 'the dawn star'?

            But there is an important issue here regarding methodology in translation
            and semantic fields. The text appears to be referring (in the context of a
            metaphor) to that which in English is already known as 'the morning star.'
            So we had better translate it into English as 'the morning star'--even if we
            think that is not a good English description of what it refers to!

            Ian Paul
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