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  • Pere Porta Roca
    We read in Re 22:15 a clause beginning with EXO. As far as I know, this clause has been understood -and therefore translated- as a jussive or imperative
    Message 1 of 5 , Jul 7, 2003
      We read in Re 22:15 a clause beginning with EXO. As far as I know, this
      clause has been understood -and therefore translated- as a jussive or
      imperative one. A command or order is given to dogs (and to the others that
      follow) to quit the holy city, where there is no place for them.

      Now, in 21:27 it is said nothing impure will enter the city nor liars...
      will.

      If we accept that the dogs, etc. are forced to quit the city it means that
      they are/were inside it.

      But in 21:27 it is said nothing impure will enter... into it...

      So, the text in 22:15 should it not be understood -and thus translated- as
      affirmative? That is to say: Dogs, etc. remain, stay, are outside the holy
      city. They will perpetually be kept far from the city, no chance of entering
      in it...

      I'd like to know your advice on this.

      Pere
    • Georg S. Adamsen
      Dear Pere, I checked the German, Swedish, Norwegian, Danish and English/American translations which I have available. Most of these translate Rev 22:15
      Message 2 of 5 , Jul 7, 2003
        Dear Pere,

        I checked the German, Swedish, Norwegian, Danish and English/American
        translations which I have available. Most of these translate Rev 22:15
        indicatively. Rightly so, I think. A few translations: Danish 1992, Geneva
        Bible 1599 (unless "shall be" is meant as a real future?), New Jerusalem
        Bible in English. Moreover, if I understand the French versions, including
        French Bible Jerusalem, then they have a nominal sentence, i.e. without any
        verb. They may thus be interpreted as indicatively.

        Thus, I think most translations (I have not checked the commentaries) simply
        assert that those mentioned in Rev 22:15 are outside. Indeed, nobody are
        forced to leave the New Jerusalem, for only believers are in that city, and
        they are of course not forced to leave it, as 3:12 also makes clear.

        Hope this helps.

        Dr. Georg S. Adamsen
        The Lutheran School of Theology in Aarhus, Denmark



        -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
        Fra: Pere Porta Roca [mailto:pporta@...]
        Sendt: 7. juli 2003 13:15
        Til: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
        Emne: [revelation-list] A question


        We read in Re 22:15 a clause beginning with EXO. As far as I know, this
        clause has been understood -and therefore translated- as a jussive or
        imperative one. A command or order is given to dogs (and to the others that
        follow) to quit the holy city, where there is no place for them.

        Now, in 21:27 it is said nothing impure will enter the city nor liars...
        will.

        If we accept that the dogs, etc. are forced to quit the city it means that
        they are/were inside it.

        But in 21:27 it is said nothing impure will enter... into it...

        So, the text in 22:15 should it not be understood -and thus translated- as
        affirmative? That is to say: Dogs, etc. remain, stay, are outside the holy
        city. They will perpetually be kept far from the city, no chance of entering
        in it...

        I'd like to know your advice on this.

        Pere




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      • Pere Porta Roca
        ... From: Georg S. Adamsen To: Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 2:12 PM Subject: SV:
        Message 3 of 5 , Jul 8, 2003
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Georg S. Adamsen" <georg@...>
          To: <revelation-list@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 2:12 PM
          Subject: SV: [revelation-list] A question


          > Dear Georg,
          > Hope this helps.

          Yes, it helps.

          Thank you.

          Pere
        • Pere Porta Roca
          ... From: Georg S. Adamsen To: Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 2:12 PM Subject: SV:
          Message 4 of 5 , Jul 9, 2003
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Georg S. Adamsen" <georg@...>
            To: <revelation-list@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 2:12 PM
            Subject: SV: [revelation-list] A question



            Georg,

            > I checked the German, Swedish, Norwegian, Danish and English/American

            > Thus, I think most translations (I have not checked the commentaries)
            simply
            > assert that those mentioned in Rev 22:15 are outside. Indeed, nobody are
            > forced to leave the New Jerusalem, for only believers are in that city,
            and
            > they are of course not forced to leave it, as 3:12 also makes clear.


            Yesterday I checked two different Catalan bibles issued in the second
            half-XX century and in both an exclamation mark is at the end of the clause.
            This clearly says the clause was understood as imperative by translators.

            Yours

            Pere
          • Upham family
            Dear sir, The sentence in Revelaiton 22:15 is not a command or an imperative, but simply a statement, and I paraphrase it, no dogs will be in heaven. I
            Message 5 of 5 , Jul 12, 2003
              Dear sir,

              The sentence in Revelaiton 22:15 is not a command or an imperative, but
              simply a statement,
              and I paraphrase it, "no dogs will be in heaven." I take this to mean
              people with a doglike spirit as seen in the following Scriptures. : Isaiah
              59:10,11, Matthew 15:21-28 and Mark 7:24-30,
              Matthew 7:6 and Philippians 3:2. If you would like a one page study with
              every reference to dogs in the Old and New Testaments in sentence form in
              outline form with the Hebrew and Greek words, etc. then please send me $1.00
              and I will mail it to you. Sincerely, T. Upham
              408 Luken St., N. Judson, IN 46366.


              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Pere Porta Roca" <pporta@...>
              To: <revelation-list@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 6:15 AM
              Subject: [revelation-list] A question


              > We read in Re 22:15 a clause beginning with EXO. As far as I know,
              this
              > clause has been understood -and therefore translated- as a jussive or
              > imperative one. A command or order is given to dogs (and to the others
              that
              > follow) to quit the holy city, where there is no place for them.
              >
              > Now, in 21:27 it is said nothing impure will enter the city nor liars...
              > will.
              >
              > If we accept that the dogs, etc. are forced to quit the city it means that
              > they are/were inside it.
              >
              > But in 21:27 it is said nothing impure will enter... into it...
              >
              > So, the text in 22:15 should it not be understood -and thus translated-
              as
              > affirmative? That is to say: Dogs, etc. remain, stay, are outside the
              holy
              > city. They will perpetually be kept far from the city, no chance of
              entering
              > in it...
              >
              > I'd like to know your advice on this.
              >
              > Pere
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > revelation-list-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
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