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RE: [revelation-list] Thigh

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  • coates
    The thigh is the place where the sword is worn. (cf.Psalm 45:3) The sword is in the mouth as it is by the Gospel, the word of God, that the nations are
    Message 1 of 11 , Mar 13, 2003
      The thigh is the place where the sword is worn. (cf.Psalm 45:3)
      The sword is in the mouth as it is by the Gospel, the word of God, that the
      nations are conquered.

      Your point on adoration and worship is well taken as Chilton believes that
      the NT words for "know" (ginosko and oida)are influenced by a Hebrew idiom
      in which the verb form has related connotations such as the idea of close
      ownership, acknowledging and acknowledging one's own. )Here the idea of
      Christ's intimacy with His own purposes seems to come through. He is the one
      who has taken from His side and He is the one employing the sword.) Chilton
      asserts that we do know the name in a cognitive sense, but that Christ alone
      is intimate with ownership and enactment of His name or identity. The sword
      is almost part of Him?

      The chiastic structure of the passage then reinforces this whole idea:

      A. HE HAS A NAME WRITTEN WHICH NO ONE OWNS EXCEPT HIMSELF. (v.12b)
      B. He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood (v.13a)
      C. His name is called the Word of God (v. 13b)
      C. From His mouth comes a sharp two-edged sword (v.15a)
      B. He treads the winepress of the fierce wrath of God (v15b.)
      A. On His Robe and on His thigh He has a name written: KING OF KINGS AND
      LORD OF LORDS (V16)

      "The sharp two-edged sword of 15a answers to 13b's characterization of
      Christ as the Word of God; 15b's information that Christ treads the
      winepress of wrath explains how His robe becomes stained with blood in 13a;
      and 16 tells us the name that 12b says Christ uniquely owns." (Chilton: pp.
      483-484.

      Somehow the replacement of the sword with the written name speaks to me of
      some type of covenantal exchange. The is direct purpose or intent behind
      this. The written name is perhaps an indicator that the sword is now in use
      and the fact that it is no longer at the thigh is emphasised by the
      inscription.

      My next question would be centred on Him treading the winepress of His
      wrath. Surely the thighs or legs are the main instruments of such an action?

      Jason Coates
      Johannesburg
      S. Africa


      -----Original Message-----
      From: Bob MacDonald [mailto:bobmacdonald@...]
      Sent: 13 March 2003 10:12
      To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [revelation-list] Thigh


      Jason wrote: >>David Chilton in "The Days of Vengeance" (pp.483-488.)does a
      short but neat exposition on this.

      Unfortunately - this is not available to me in my library. Can you précis
      the idea for us?

      What makes it neat? Is he referring to the potential for intimate promise in
      the selection of a bride? (Abraham's servant) Or is he alluding to that
      part of the thigh which the Israelites never eat because the Lord put
      Israel's thigh out of joint? Or is he drawing on the image of the palanquin
      of Solomon accompanied by soldiers (in the middle of a love song)? The sword
      is usually at the thigh - not the name; in Revelation 19, the sword is at
      the mouth and the name which ought to be spoken is written on the thigh.

      Any of these could point to death through adoration. Personally I am
      convinced of the focus of this book on worship - it is my antidote to the
      popular interpretations of the violence.

      If there is a scholar on the list who would like to tear apart an essay on
      this, see http://bmd.gx.ca/tribulation.htm, subtitled 'turning to come round
      right' in memory of the Appalachian song.

      Bob

      mailto::BobMacDonald@...
      + + + Victoria, B.C., Canada + + +

      Catch the foxes for us,
      the little foxes that make havoc of the vineyards,
      for our vineyards are in flower. (Song 2.15)
      http://bobmacdonald.gx.ca


      -----Original Message-----
      From: coates [mailto:jasonnola@...]
      Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 11:37 PM
      To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [revelation-list] Thigh


      David Chilton in "The Days of Vengeance" (pp.483-488.)does a short but neat
      exposition on this.

      Jason Coates
      Johannesburg
      S. Africa

      -----Original Message-----
      From: David Barr [mailto:david.barr@...]
      Sent: 12 March 2003 06:33
      To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [revelation-list] Thigh


      At 08:22 AM 3/12/03 -0800, you wrote:
      >"And he has upon his robe, that is, upon his thigh, a name inscribed ..."
      >
      >I have not found much written on the location of the name of the rider of
      >the white horse.
      >
      >Has anyone any insight on this?
      >
      >Thanks

      Perhaps we should try a midrash on Genesis 24? Or perhaps a literary
      approach would be better?

      David

      David L. Barr
      Wright State University
      Dayton OH


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    • Alan Fuller
      Here s a midrash style alternative view. Often Scripture regards the thigh as the seat of vital functions, especially procreation. English translations often
      Message 2 of 11 , Mar 13, 2003
        Here's a midrash style alternative view.

        Often Scripture regards the thigh as the seat of vital functions,
        especially procreation. English translations often obscure this
        connection. The Hebrew text of Genesis 46:26; Exodus 1:5; and Judges
        8:30 gives the thighs (KJV loins) as the source of offspring.

        The name KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS, means to conquer and reign
        justly (Rev 17:14 Ps 72:11 Pr 8:15,16 Da 2:47 Php 2:9-11 1Ti 6:15)
        The name of the rider is The Word of God (19:13).

        The Word of God (Gospel) produces spiritual offspring. They are
        converts to christianity. The Gospel conquers in this manner. This
        is the view of the Gospel of Jesus Christ conquering the earth and
        can perhaps be compared to the great comission or the vision of the
        stone filling the earth in Daniel 2.

        Alan Fuller
      • Mike McLafferty
        ... The connotations or evocations of thigh are tempting, but it s also possible there s no special significance. An old commentary by Isbon T. Beckwith,
        Message 3 of 11 , Mar 13, 2003
          Bob MacDonald originally inquired (# 455):

          > "And he has upon his robe, that is,
          > upon his thigh, a name inscribed ..."
          >
          > I have not found much written on the
          > location of the name of the rider of
          > the white horse.

          The connotations or evocations of 'thigh' are tempting, but it's also
          possible there's no special significance. An old commentary by Isbon T.
          Beckwith, Ph.D., D.D., "The Apocalypse of John," (NY: Macmillan, 1919) says
          of Rev. 19:16:

          "KAI EPI TON MHRON, *that is, upon his thigh*: KAI, epexegetical. The words
          make more specific the preceding general term; the name is written upon that
          part of his mantle that falls over the thigh, and in the case of a rider is
          especially conspicuous."

          Respectfully,
          Michael McLafferty
          Portland, Oregon, USA
        • Alan Fuller
          It may be true that there is no significance to the location of the title, but if John practiced midrash, which was supposed to be the method of interpretation
          Message 4 of 11 , Mar 14, 2003
            It may be true that there is no significance to the location of the
            title, but if John practiced midrash, which was supposed to be the
            method of interpretation during the first century, then he probably
            believed everything had significance.

            Alan

            --- In revelation-list@yahoogroups.com, "Mike McLafferty"
            <mikemclafferty@a...> wrote:
            > Bob MacDonald originally inquired (# 455):
            >
            > > "And he has upon his robe, that is,
            > > upon his thigh, a name inscribed ..."
            > >
            > > I have not found much written on the
            > > location of the name of the rider of
            > > the white horse.
            >
            > The connotations or evocations of 'thigh' are tempting, but it's
            also
            > possible there's no special significance. An old commentary by
            Isbon T.
            > Beckwith, Ph.D., D.D., "The Apocalypse of John," (NY: Macmillan,
            1919) says
            > of Rev. 19:16:
            >
            > "KAI EPI TON MHRON, *that is, upon his thigh*: KAI, epexegetical.
            The words
            > make more specific the preceding general term; the name is written
            upon that
            > part of his mantle that falls over the thigh, and in the case of a
            rider is
            > especially conspicuous."
            >
            > Respectfully,
            > Michael McLafferty
            > Portland, Oregon, USA
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