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RE: [revelation-list] Re: Dating question

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  • Paul Anderson
    Thanks, Steve, this is very helpful. By the way, in exploring texts and/or archaelogical material, did you come up with any indications of how one s loyalty
    Message 1 of 32 , Feb 6, 2003
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      Thanks, Steve, this is very helpful. By the way, in exploring texts and/or archaelogical material, did you come up with any indications of how one's loyalty to the empire might have been displayed outwardly? One wonders, of course, how this might have related to the mark of the Beast in Revelation 13.

      Can you tell us where we might find any of your published findings?

      Paul

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Steve Friesen [mailto:friesens@...]
      Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 3:16 PM
      To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [revelation-list] Re: Dating question


      Paul,

      I can't detect any particular increase in imperial cults in western
      Asia Minor in the late first century based on the material remains.
      Archaeological evidence certainly has its limits, but I think it
      gives us quite a bit to work with. The conclusion I came to was that
      there really isn't much difference in imperial cult practice between
      the 60's and the 90's in terms of amount or "extravagance." It
      certainly isn't strong enough to influence our judgment on the date
      of Revelation.

      I would say that there's a relative shift in the function of imperial
      cults in the 60's or 90's, though, in that region. By the 90's, such
      cults are more prominent in the discourse of civic unity and loyalty
      to the empire. So an anti-imperial cult stance in the 90's would
      perhaps be more at odds with dominant society in western Asia Minor
      than it would be in the 60's. But I think the date of Revelation has
      to be argued on other grounds, and then compared to what we think we
      know about those time periods.

      Steve



      >Thanks, Steve, good point. We have texts to interpret whenever they
      >were produced, and probably earlier and later material in them,
      >however we look at it.
      >
      >I've been interested, though, in your comments, Steve, on the impact
      >of the imperial cult during the time of Domitian (81-96). Would
      >Christians in Asia Minor have felt an intensification of economic
      >and social pressure to demonstrate outwardly their reverence for the
      >emperor/empire in ways that would have made this a crisis of
      >assimilation especially for believers of Gentile backgrounds? If
      >so, this would shed light on the setting of Revelation, sharpening
      >the focus of our interpretive work.
      >
      >I'm interested, by the way, in hearing about your research on these
      >matters from an archaeological standpoint.
      >
      >Paul Anderson
      >George Fox University
      >Newberg, OR 97132
      >
      >-----Original Message-----
      >From: Steve Friesen [mailto:friesens@...]
      >Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 8:21 AM
      >To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
      >Subject: Re: [revelation-list] Re: Dating question
      >
      >
      >I would grant that good old academic curiosity is enough to justify
      >questions about the date when Revelation was composed. But I'm
      >wondering what difference it makes in the interpretation of
      >Revelation. Why does it matter for our understanding of the text
      >whether it was written in the 60's or 90's?
      >
      >Steve
      >
      >--
      >
      >
      >20000000000000000000000000000000000000000000003
      >Steve Friesen
      >Dept. Chair & Bible Wonk
      >Religious Studies, 221 A & S Bldg.
      >University of Missouri
      >Columbia, MO 65211-4140
      >
      >http://www.missouri.edu/~religsf
      >
      >O (573) 882-0033; H (573) 874-0951; F (573) 882-4495
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      >
      >A good thing to do when you disagree with someone is
      >to go talk to them, not to shoot them.
      > --John Hume
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      --


      20000000000000000000000000000000000000000000003
      Steve Friesen
      Dept. Chair & Bible Wonk
      Religious Studies, 221 A & S Bldg.
      University of Missouri
      Columbia, MO 65211-4140

      http://www.missouri.edu/~religsf

      O (573) 882-0033; H (573) 874-0951; F (573) 882-4495
      20000000000000000000000000000000000000000000003

      A good thing to do when you disagree with someone is
      to go talk to them, not to shoot them.
      --John Hume



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    • Greg Clarke
      Sorry, Georg and others. I didn t think of this restriction. Greg ... Dr G. J. Clarke Ph.D., University of Sydney Editor, Matthias Media Ph. 61 2 9663 1478.
      Message 32 of 32 , Mar 12, 2003
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        Sorry, Georg and others. I didn't think of this restriction.

        Greg


        ------------
        Dr G. J. Clarke
        Ph.D., University of Sydney
        Editor, Matthias Media
        Ph. 61 2 9663 1478. Fax. 61 2 9663 3265.
        Email. gjclarke@...


        > From: "Georg S. Adamsen" <georg@...>
        > Reply-To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 12:33:56 +0100
        > To: <revelation-list@yahoogroups.com>
        > Subject: [revelation-list] Administrivia: Please, read
        >
        > Dear list
        >
        > I am sure that bible studies for small groups may be interesting
        > material and well prepared and well done. However, I think we should
        > keep the focus of this list on scholarly discussions and scholarly
        > material. It may be difficult to distinguish, but I would say that
        > material is not scholarly in the aforementioned sense just because it is
        > written by a scholar.
        >
        > It may, as I said, be very interesting and well-prepared and
        > well-written material, but I fear that we will open for a very large
        > number of messages, if messages like this one are allowed on this list.
        > Therefore, such messages are off-topic and should not be posted. Feel
        > free to ask me if you are unsure as to the status of your material.
        >
        > Thank you!
        >
        > Dr. Georg S. Adamsen
        > Listowner
        >
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