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Re: Dating question

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  • kymhsm <ksmith@standrews.sa.edu.au>
    Dear Greg,
    Message 1 of 32 , Feb 3, 2003
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      Dear Greg,

      <<<The strongest thus far would seem to me to be the fact that
      the Apostle John was unlikely to pull off such a feat while in his
      nineties. But this is a social thesis which doesn't really take grip.
      >>>

      I agree that the age of John is an issue. That is, of course, if you
      hold - as I do - that the Apostle John was the author. Even J.A.T.
      Robinson saw it as an issue.

      But it is not simply a social thesis. Considering John's well
      known and long involvement with Ephesus and the rest of Asia,
      how could he, at the end of the century, deliver the rebuke to
      Ephesus (and those to the other centres) that they had lost their
      first love? If he had had a long association with them, then he
      must have been partly responsible for their slide and 1. he would
      have lacked sufficient credibility to send it and 2. would have
      needed the message to be delivered to him - rather than be its
      sender. Either, then, someone other than John wrote it at the end
      of the first entury or he did write it, but early and before he could
      be held responsible for the condition of the Church. The latter
      position makes most sense to me.

      Sincerely,

      Kym Smith
      Adelaide
      South Australia
      khs@...


      --- In revelation-list@yahoogroups.com, Greg Clarke
      <gclarke@m...> wrote:
      > Thanks to Kenneth, Ian, Kym, Doug and Don.
      >
      > Kenneth, I know your material (which I read in the enormous
      PDF download
      > format!) and found very helpful your deflation of the significance
      of
      > Irenaeus's statement. I shall have to read Kym and Don; and
      I'm very
      > interested in Doug's Vespasian comment, which I'll pursue.
      >
      > But I am trying to see how strong the argument AGAINST
      Domitian dating is.
      > Kenneth's material is strong in suggesting the possibility that
      the Domitian
      > dating has been a mistake made by a string of Church
      Fathers, or that it is
      > possible to reinterpret their statements such that they are not
      defending
      > the Domitian date.
      >
      > But this seems to be to be a different question to the one: "Is
      there any
      > external evidence that it was not written under Domitian?"
      >
      > The strongest thus far would seem to me to be the fact that the
      Apostle John
      > was unlikely to pull off such a feat while in his nineties. But this
      is a
      > social thesis which doesn't really take grip.
      >
      > Here's a question for us: what kind of external evidence are we
      likely to
      > find that would refute the Domitian date?
      >
      > Thanks very much for your interest
      >
      > Greg
    • Greg Clarke
      Sorry, Georg and others. I didn t think of this restriction. Greg ... Dr G. J. Clarke Ph.D., University of Sydney Editor, Matthias Media Ph. 61 2 9663 1478.
      Message 32 of 32 , Mar 12, 2003
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        Sorry, Georg and others. I didn't think of this restriction.

        Greg


        ------------
        Dr G. J. Clarke
        Ph.D., University of Sydney
        Editor, Matthias Media
        Ph. 61 2 9663 1478. Fax. 61 2 9663 3265.
        Email. gjclarke@...


        > From: "Georg S. Adamsen" <georg@...>
        > Reply-To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 12:33:56 +0100
        > To: <revelation-list@yahoogroups.com>
        > Subject: [revelation-list] Administrivia: Please, read
        >
        > Dear list
        >
        > I am sure that bible studies for small groups may be interesting
        > material and well prepared and well done. However, I think we should
        > keep the focus of this list on scholarly discussions and scholarly
        > material. It may be difficult to distinguish, but I would say that
        > material is not scholarly in the aforementioned sense just because it is
        > written by a scholar.
        >
        > It may, as I said, be very interesting and well-prepared and
        > well-written material, but I fear that we will open for a very large
        > number of messages, if messages like this one are allowed on this list.
        > Therefore, such messages are off-topic and should not be posted. Feel
        > free to ask me if you are unsure as to the status of your material.
        >
        > Thank you!
        >
        > Dr. Georg S. Adamsen
        > Listowner
        >
        >
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