Re: [revelation-list] Victorinus of Pettau and Rapture
- on 1/10/03 7:41 AM Ramsey Michaels wrote:
> Having said that, I have to admit that the phrase "de medio" (presumablyProfessor Michaels and Juan,
> from the Greek ek mesou) is interesting . . .
Take a look at how de medio is used here.
Matt. 13:49 sic erit in consummatione saeculi exibunt angeli et separabunt
malos de medio iustorum
MATT. 13:49 hOUTWS ESTAI EN THi SUNTELEIAi TOU AIWNOS: EXELEUSONTAI hOI
AGGELOI KAI AFORIOUSIN TOUS PONHROUS EK MESOU TWN DIKAIWN
Clayton Stirling Bartholomew
Three Tree Point
P.O. Box 255 Seahurst WA 98062
- My deep gratitude to Alain-Marie de Lassus, Ramsey Michaels and Clay
Bartholomew for their valuable help on Victorinus. Looking at other
passages in Victorinus (thanks to Clay), I find no evidence that he could
have been thinking of a pre-tribulation rapture to rescue the saints prior
to the Antichrist. Rather, I suspect Victorinus refers back to the flight of
the woman (persecuted Church) in 12.6,14. His comment on 12.6 emphasizes
withdrawal or removal: "I saw that all men withdrew from his abodes] That
is, the good will be removed, flying from persecution. But the woman fled
into the wilderness" (he then cites Lc 21.21, flee to mountains). This
hardly fits the rapture. It would be interesting to see what latin verbs
Victorinus uses for "withdraw" and "be removed" (similar to " exierit" in
comment on 15.1?)
He continues to explain 12:6,14 as being gathered together in Judea and
then "go to that place which they have ready" to be nourished three years
and six months from the presence of the devil. On 12.16 he again says she
"flees from the face of the serpent". All this seems to explain the original
quote better than any supposed reference to a pre-trib rapture.
Dispensationalist TV-evangelist Jack van Impe (from whom I got the
Victorinus quote) also appeals to Ephraem the Syrian for support, but fails
to mention that the famous quote is not from Ephraem at all but from
Van Impe also cites ambiguous phrases from Hugo Latimer and Joseph Mede,
which don't come close to being any clear statement of a
dispensationalist-style pre-Trib rapture. Can anyone comment on the
eschatology of these two authors?
Also, can anyone tell me how to access the commentary on Rev by Andrew
(Andreas) of Cesarea?
Juan Stam (Costa Rica)
> Van Impe also cites ambiguous phrases from Hugo Latimer andI can comment on Mede. He is a proto- premillenialist, in that Christ
> Joseph Mede, which don't come close to being any clear
> statement of a dispensationalist-style pre-Trib rapture. Can
> anyone comment on the eschatology of these two authors?
returns at the end of the conflgation at the end the AC's rule,
establishes the kingdom, then ruls that kingdom from heaven. The obvious
difference from the modern form of pre-mil that Dispensationalism
represents is that Christ is not present on earth during the kingdom.
What Mede teaches concerning the rapture is that there will be a
"pre-conflagration" catching away of the church prior to the second
coming, but he does not flesh this out in any way, and is really not a
pre-trib rapture as VanImpe would teach. Again, I'd call it
"proto-pre-trib" if I had to. Mede discusses this pre-conflgration
rapture in his commentary on 2 Peter, using the story of Noah as a text.
Really it is a mention of a pre-conflagration rapture, and far from a
Phillip J. Long
Associate Professor of Bible
Grace Bible College
Grand Rapids, MI