Re: The trumpets??
i) I think that the scenario you suggest is quite possible. The
trumpets might well be a judgment against non-christians. I
understand that there are still christians on the earth at the time
of the fifth seal since the christians are told to be patient for
a "little season" until their brethern who were to be killed in the
same manner as they were. A little season is also mentioned in
20:3. But I would guess that the trumpets are actually judgments
against the non-christians.
ii) Are you saying that the two witnesses have some responsibility
for the first six trumpets? Do you believe that the witnesses caused
some of the previous judgments, but were not named until later in the
As far as what they are prophesying, I would suppose they would be
prophesying about the rest of the events in the sixth and seventh
trumpets. Do you feel it would be something different?
I think the relationship between the two witnesses and the seven
churches is intresting. They are identified as the "two olive trees
and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth."
This is nearly the same description of the olive trees by the
candlestick in Zechariah 4:14. The seven churches are also
identified as candlesticks in Rev 1:20.
iii) First: I suppose the fact that they are called witnesses infers
that they are calling for conversion. There are later calls
for "conversion" found in Revelation (18:4), but not specifically in
Second: The contrast between the "thirds" in the trumpets and
the "wholes" in the bowls is often pointed out. If the book is to be
read sequentially, then I wonder how these partial jugments are
supposed to happen after "The sky receded like a scroll, rolling up,
and every mountain and island was removed from its place. (6:14)" I
think it makes a good case for an "overlapping" structure to the
book, rather than one that is totally sequential.
Third: Verses 11:15-19 seem to have a ring of finality to them.
Reigning forever, time for judging the dead and rewarding the saints,
and destroying those who destroy the earth seem like time ending
events. What do you think?
I think there are several endings in the book of Revelation.
--- In revelation-list@y..., "Christian Maymann" <christian@m...>
> Dear List-membersthe book of Revelation. I hope that you have some good answers on the
> I'm wondering how we are to understand 8:5-11:19 in the context of
> i) That is the relationship between the trumpets and the seal (6:1-
>concern the expiernces of the churches. May guess for this
> In my own understanding, I think, that the seal first of all
understanding is, that the fifth seal depicts the souls of the people
been killed for the sake of the word of God, and their word of
witness (concerning Christ I guess). I the fifth seal there are two
groups: the people who have been slain, and the people who have slain
them (called "them that dwell on the earth") The people who have been
slain, cry for avenge on them that dwell on the earth.
>the earth". So the trumpets, I guess, concern "them that dwell on the
> In 8:13 we hear the eagle say: "Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of
earth". In the book of Revelation this formulation is a standard
referent to the non-Christian world.
>for in the fifth seal - Is this a possible understanding?
> The conclusion to this that the trumpets depict the avenge called
>9:21) and the two witnesses in 11:1-14?
> ii) That is the relationship between the first six trumpets (8:5-
>trumpets and the two witnesses?
> I think that this question point to at least two more questions:
> First: How should we understand the chronology between the six
>shall prophesy", but what exactly is the content of their prophesy?
> Second: That is the function of the witnesses? 11:3 says "they
And what is the relationship to the war described in the fifth and
> iii) What is the relationship between the trumpets and the bowls
>in common. But some aspects are different, and that point me to and
> The trumpets and the bowls have the use of the motives of Exodus
understanding, that goes as follow:
>bowls depict the totally-judgment-of-God.
> The trumpets depict a kind of not-totally-judgment-of-God, and the
> I think that this understanding is required at least by the
>judgment and calling for conversion. In the bowls we do not have any
> First: In the trumpets, we have we two witness proclaiming the
vision of that kind, but just the doom.
>one-third like 8:8 and so on), the trumpets concern only a part of
> Second: The trumpets concern the whole world (We do not have any
>lord have judge the people, who have been against the people of God -
> Third: After the third bowl we heard an angel proclaiming, that the
We do not have any of that kind in the trumpets.
> Do you have any comments?
> Christian Maymann
> M.Theol, Denmark.