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RE: [revelation-list] Visions?

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  • David L. Barr
    Leo Exactly so, though I suspect that they way these terms ( testimony sacrifice cross ) have become religious terms connoting a certain kind of piety
    Message 1 of 22 , Oct 23, 2002
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      Leo
          Exactly so, though I suspect that they way these terms ("testimony" "sacrifice" "cross") have become religious terms connoting a certain kind of piety hides what is required of us, which I take it to be more akin to what that Chinese student did who stood in front of the tank, refusing to let it pass without running over him. 
       
      David

      David L. Barr
      Professor of Religion
      Wright State University
      Dayton OH

      937-775-2293
      937-775-2892 (FAX)
      http://www.wright.edu/~david.barr

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Leo R Percer [mailto:PercerL@...]
      Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 9:43 PM
       
      I basically agree with David here, so I'm not offering a criticism except to say that Revelation 12:11 includes another sentence fragment that makes the first two portions explicit in how "humans" can play a role in victory over the dragon.  The fragment is "For they loved not their lives even to death."  In other words, humans bear "testimony" (marturias) to the Lamb's sacrifice by following his example.  It seems to me that John describes the path to victory as one of martyrdom or self-sacrifice.  Just like the "dragon" couldn't destroy the Lamb with the cross (the ultimate place of self-sacrifice), even so (according to John) Babylon and other "dragon" associated entities will not be able to overcome the witnesses (or "martyrs") of the Lamb as they follow his example.  Well, that's how I see it at any rate.
       
      Leo Percer
      Waco, TX
       
       


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    • Leo R Percer
      David: What can I say to your brief response below but Amen ? Leo Percer Waco, TX P.S.--I want also to say Thanks to you for your articles and other
      Message 2 of 22 , Oct 23, 2002
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        David:
         
        What can I say to your brief response below but "Amen"?
         
        Leo Percer
        Waco, TX
         
        P.S.--I want also to say "Thanks" to you for your articles and other materials on Revelation that showed up so prominently in several places in my dissertation.  May God continue to bless your work.
         
         
        On Wed, 23 Oct 2002 20:32:37 -0400 "David L. Barr" <david.barr@...> writes:
        Leo
            Exactly so, though I suspect that they way these terms ("testimony" "sacrifice" "cross") have become religious terms connoting a certain kind of piety hides what is required of us, which I take it to be more akin to what that Chinese student did who stood in front of the tank, refusing to let it pass without running over him. 
         
        David

        David L. Barr
        Professor of Religion
        Wright State University
        Dayton OH

        937-775-2293
        937-775-2892 (FAX)
        http://www.wright.edu/~david.barr

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