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Re: [revelation-list] question for the list

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  • Don K. Preston
    Thanks for your response. The type of collusion I had in mind was that posited by Harnack some time ago. Nero s wife Poppea was Jewish, as was his freedman.
    Message 1 of 8 , Apr 11, 2002
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      Thanks for your response.
      The type of collusion I had in mind was that posited by Harnack some time ago. Nero's wife Poppea was Jewish, as was his freedman. Further, as Harnack and others note, there was an ambassage of priests in Rome at the time of the burning, and the indication is that Nero's Jewish inner circle influenced him to delineate between Christians and Jews in his persecution, for the first time in history.
      In regard to the identity of Babylon as Jerusalem, I once held to the Rome=Babylon view. However, I no longer feel that is a tenable position. In my book, Who Is This Babylon? I present a great deal of information defending the Babylon= Jerusalem identification. I would be glad to share a copy with you if you would care to review it.
      It was favorably reviewed by Basil Lourie of this list last year.
      Don K.
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 1:23 PM
      Subject: RE: [revelation-list] question for the list

      Don,
       
      I don't have any advice under the terms of the questions you asked, but would urge you to re-examine your identification of Babylon with Jerusalem.
       
      By the way, what sort of confederacy or collusion between "Israel/the Jews" and Rome under Nero do you have in mind?
       
       --jwm
      _____________________________________________________________________
      John W. Marshall                               Assistant Professor
                                                              Department for the Study of Religion
                                                              University of Toronto
      john.marshall@...                416.978.8122
      -----Original Message-----
      From: DON K [mailto:dkpret@...]
      Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 2:16 PM
      To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [revelation-list] question for the list

      Would like some good source materials for research on this question:
      The Apocalypse posits a partnership between the Beast, (ostensibly Rome), and the Harlot city, Babylon, (I suggest Jerusalem), in persecuting the saints.
      What evidence exists of a partnership between Rome and Israel/the Jews?
      It seems clear that there was collusion under Nero.
      However, I know of none for the Domitianic, and Trajanic period. What about under Decius, Diocletian, etc.?
      I am not speaking of local, individual situations e.g. the case of Polycarp. I speak of a confederacy, however loose, between Rome and Israel.
      Thanks in advance.
      Don K. Preston
      Who Is This Babylon?


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    • Ed Garcia
      JWM, I am curious, then how do you understand the harlot? Ed Garcia Kansas ... From: John W. Marshall [mailto:john.marshall@utoronto.ca] Sent: Thursday, April
      Message 2 of 8 , Apr 11, 2002
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        JWM,

        I am curious, then how do you understand the harlot?

        Ed Garcia
        Kansas

        -----Original Message-----
        From: John W. Marshall [mailto:john.marshall@...]
        Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 1:23 PM
        To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [revelation-list] question for the list


        Don,

        I don't have any advice under the terms of the questions you asked, but
        would urge you to re-examine your identification of Babylon with Jerusalem.

        By the way, what sort of confederacy or collusion between "Israel/the Jews"
        and Rome under Nero do you have in mind?

        --jwm
        _____________________________________________________________________
        John W. Marshall Assistant Professor
        Department for the
        Study of Religion
        University of
        Toronto
        john.marshall@... <mailto:john.marshall@...>
        416.978.8122

        -----Original Message-----
        From: DON K [mailto:dkpret@...]
        Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 2:16 PM
        To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [revelation-list] question for the list



        Would like some good source materials for research on this question:
        The Apocalypse posits a partnership between the Beast, (ostensibly Rome),
        and the Harlot city, Babylon, (I suggest Jerusalem), in persecuting the
        saints.
        What evidence exists of a partnership between Rome and Israel/the Jews?
        It seems clear that there was collusion under Nero.
        However, I know of none for the Domitianic, and Trajanic period. What about
        under Decius, Diocletian, etc.?
        I am not speaking of local, individual situations e.g. the case of Polycarp.
        I speak of a confederacy, however loose, between Rome and Israel.
        Thanks in advance.
        Don K. Preston
        Who Is This Babylon?


        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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      • Ed Garcia
        I am very interested in your book. How can I purchase a copy? Ed Garcia Kansas ... From: Don K. Preston [mailto:dkpret@brightok.net] Sent: Thursday, April 11,
        Message 3 of 8 , Apr 11, 2002
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          I am very interested in your book. How can I purchase a copy?

          Ed Garcia
          Kansas

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Don K. Preston [mailto:dkpret@...]
          Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 4:19 PM
          To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [revelation-list] question for the list


          Thanks for your response.
          The type of collusion I had in mind was that posited by Harnack some time
          ago. Nero's wife Poppea was Jewish, as was his freedman. Further, as Harnack
          and others note, there was an ambassage of priests in Rome at the time of
          the burning, and the indication is that Nero's Jewish inner circle
          influenced him to delineate between Christians and Jews in his persecution,
          for the first time in history.
          In regard to the identity of Babylon as Jerusalem, I once held to the
          Rome=Babylon view. However, I no longer feel that is a tenable position. In
          my book, Who Is This Babylon? I present a great deal of information
          defending the Babylon= Jerusalem identification. I would be glad to share a
          copy with you if you would care to review it.
          It was favorably reviewed by Basil Lourie of this list last year.
          Don K.

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: John W. Marshall <mailto:john.marshall@...>
          To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com <mailto:revelation-list@yahoogroups.com>

          Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 1:23 PM
          Subject: RE: [revelation-list] question for the list

          Don,

          I don't have any advice under the terms of the questions you asked, but
          would urge you to re-examine your identification of Babylon with Jerusalem.

          By the way, what sort of confederacy or collusion between "Israel/the Jews"
          and Rome under Nero do you have in mind?

          --jwm
          _____________________________________________________________________
          John W. Marshall Assistant Professor
          Department for the
          Study of Religion
          University of
          Toronto
          john.marshall@... <mailto:john.marshall@...>
          416.978.8122

          -----Original Message-----
          From: DON K [mailto:dkpret@...]
          Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 2:16 PM
          To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [revelation-list] question for the list



          Would like some good source materials for research on this question:
          The Apocalypse posits a partnership between the Beast, (ostensibly Rome),
          and the Harlot city, Babylon, (I suggest Jerusalem), in persecuting the
          saints.
          What evidence exists of a partnership between Rome and Israel/the Jews?
          It seems clear that there was collusion under Nero.
          However, I know of none for the Domitianic, and Trajanic period. What about
          under Decius, Diocletian, etc.?
          I am not speaking of local, individual situations e.g. the case of Polycarp.
          I speak of a confederacy, however loose, between Rome and Israel.
          Thanks in advance.
          Don K. Preston
          Who Is This Babylon?


          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          revelation-list-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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          <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .



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        • Don K. Preston
          Ed, you can order it from me. Just send a check or MO to: Don K. Preston 2712 Mt. Washington Rd. Ardmore, Ok. 73401 cost is $12.95 Postpaid. Thanks for your
          Message 4 of 8 , Apr 11, 2002
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            Ed, you can order it from me. Just send a check or MO to:
            Don K. Preston
            2712 Mt. Washington Rd.
            Ardmore, Ok. 73401

            cost is $12.95 Postpaid.

            Thanks for your interest.
            Don K
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Ed Garcia <Ed.Garcia@...>
            To: <revelation-list@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 4:43 PM
            Subject: RE: [revelation-list] question for the list


            > I am very interested in your book. How can I purchase a copy?
            >
            > Ed Garcia
            > Kansas
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Don K. Preston [mailto:dkpret@...]
            > Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 4:19 PM
            > To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [revelation-list] question for the list
            >
            >
            > Thanks for your response.
            > The type of collusion I had in mind was that posited by Harnack some time
            > ago. Nero's wife Poppea was Jewish, as was his freedman. Further, as
            Harnack
            > and others note, there was an ambassage of priests in Rome at the time of
            > the burning, and the indication is that Nero's Jewish inner circle
            > influenced him to delineate between Christians and Jews in his
            persecution,
            > for the first time in history.
            > In regard to the identity of Babylon as Jerusalem, I once held to the
            > Rome=Babylon view. However, I no longer feel that is a tenable position.
            In
            > my book, Who Is This Babylon? I present a great deal of information
            > defending the Babylon= Jerusalem identification. I would be glad to share
            a
            > copy with you if you would care to review it.
            > It was favorably reviewed by Basil Lourie of this list last year.
            > Don K.
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: John W. Marshall <mailto:john.marshall@...>
            > To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
            <mailto:revelation-list@yahoogroups.com>
            >
            > Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 1:23 PM
            > Subject: RE: [revelation-list] question for the list
            >
            > Don,
            >
            > I don't have any advice under the terms of the questions you asked, but
            > would urge you to re-examine your identification of Babylon with Jerusalem
            .
            >
            > By the way, what sort of confederacy or collusion between "Israel/the
            Jews"
            > and Rome under Nero do you have in mind?
            >
            > --jwm
            > _____________________________________________________________________
            > John W. Marshall Assistant Professor
            > Department for the
            > Study of Religion
            > University of
            > Toronto
            > john.marshall@... <mailto:john.marshall@...>
            > 416.978.8122
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: DON K [mailto:dkpret@...]
            > Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 2:16 PM
            > To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [revelation-list] question for the list
            >
            >
            >
            > Would like some good source materials for research on this question:
            > The Apocalypse posits a partnership between the Beast, (ostensibly Rome),
            > and the Harlot city, Babylon, (I suggest Jerusalem), in persecuting the
            > saints.
            > What evidence exists of a partnership between Rome and Israel/the Jews?
            > It seems clear that there was collusion under Nero.
            > However, I know of none for the Domitianic, and Trajanic period. What
            about
            > under Decius, Diocletian, etc.?
            > I am not speaking of local, individual situations e.g. the case of
            Polycarp.
            > I speak of a confederacy, however loose, between Rome and Israel.
            > Thanks in advance.
            > Don K. Preston
            > Who Is This Babylon?
            >
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > revelation-list-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
            > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
            >
            >
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > revelation-list-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
            > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            >
            > ADVERTISEMENT
            >
            >
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          • Greg Clarke
            Dear Rev-listers Can anyone provide me with references useful for examining the Aeneid in relation to New Testament eschatology? Of course, I m particularly
            Message 5 of 8 , Apr 16, 2002
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              The Aeneid and NT eschatology Dear Rev-listers

              Can anyone provide me with references useful for examining the Aeneid in relation to New Testament eschatology? Of course, I'm particularly interested in parallels with Revelation.

              I have had Putnam, M.C.J. Vergil's Aeneid: Interpretation and Influence recommended, but not having seen it I don't know what it covers.

              Many thanks

              Greg Clarke


              .............................................................
              Dr G.J.Clarke
              Editor | Matthias Media
              Contact:  office (61 2) 9663 1478
                          fax: (61 2) 9663 3265
                          email: gclarke@...
                          mail to: PO Box 225 | Kingsford | NSW | Australia | 2032
            • D.B.V.Kick
              Hi Greg, I know J.J. Collins refers to the Aeneid when he classifies the genre of apocalyptic literature. I ve only looked at his book briefly so far, so I
              Message 6 of 8 , Apr 17, 2002
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                Hi Greg,

                I know J.J. Collins refers to the Aeneid when he classifies the genre of
                apocalyptic literature. I've only looked at his book briefly so far, so
                I don't know whether he elaborates on parallels between Rev and Vergil
                further into his book...

                J.J. Collins, "Apocalypse: The Morphology of a Genre" Semeia 14
                (Missoula, 1979).

                hope this helps a bit!

                Donata Kick



                Greg Clarke wrote:
                >
                > Dear Rev-listers
                >
                > Can anyone provide me with references useful for examining the Aeneid
                > in relation to New Testament eschatology? Of course, I'm particularly
                > interested in parallels with Revelation.
                >
                > I have had Putnam, M.C.J. Vergil's Aeneid: Interpretation and
                > Influence recommended, but not having seen it I don't know what it
                > covers.
                >
                > Many thanks
                >
                > Greg Clarke
                >
                > .............................................................
                > Dr G.J.Clarke
                > Editor | Matthias Media
                > Contact: office (61 2) 9663 1478
                > fax: (61 2) 9663 3265
                > email: gclarke@...
                > mail to: PO Box 225 | Kingsford | NSW | Australia | 2032
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                > ADVERTISEMENT
                > [Click Here!]
                >
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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