Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

question for the list

Expand Messages
  • DON K
    Would like some good source materials for research on this question: The Apocalypse posits a partnership between the Beast, (ostensibly Rome), and the Harlot
    Message 1 of 8 , Apr 11, 2002
    • 0 Attachment
      Would like some good source materials for research on this question:
      The Apocalypse posits a partnership between the Beast, (ostensibly Rome), and the Harlot city, Babylon, (I suggest Jerusalem), in persecuting the saints.
      What evidence exists of a partnership between Rome and Israel/the Jews?
      It seems clear that there was collusion under Nero.
      However, I know of none for the Domitianic, and Trajanic period. What about under Decius, Diocletian, etc.?
      I am not speaking of local, individual situations e.g. the case of Polycarp. I speak of a confederacy, however loose, between Rome and Israel.
      Thanks in advance.
      Don K. Preston
      Who Is This Babylon?
    • John W. Marshall
      Don, I don t have any advice under the terms of the questions you asked, but would urge you to re-examine your identification of Babylon with Jerusalem. By the
      Message 2 of 8 , Apr 11, 2002
      • 0 Attachment
        Don,
         
        I don't have any advice under the terms of the questions you asked, but would urge you to re-examine your identification of Babylon with Jerusalem.
         
        By the way, what sort of confederacy or collusion between "Israel/the Jews" and Rome under Nero do you have in mind?
         
         --jwm
        _____________________________________________________________________
        John W. Marshall                               Assistant Professor
                                                                Department for the Study of Religion
                                                                University of Toronto
        john.marshall@...                416.978.8122
        -----Original Message-----
        From: DON K [mailto:dkpret@...]
        Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 2:16 PM
        To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [revelation-list] question for the list

        Would like some good source materials for research on this question:
        The Apocalypse posits a partnership between the Beast, (ostensibly Rome), and the Harlot city, Babylon, (I suggest Jerusalem), in persecuting the saints.
        What evidence exists of a partnership between Rome and Israel/the Jews?
        It seems clear that there was collusion under Nero.
        However, I know of none for the Domitianic, and Trajanic period. What about under Decius, Diocletian, etc.?
        I am not speaking of local, individual situations e.g. the case of Polycarp. I speak of a confederacy, however loose, between Rome and Israel.
        Thanks in advance.
        Don K. Preston
        Who Is This Babylon?


        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        revelation-list-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
      • Don K. Preston
        Thanks for your response. The type of collusion I had in mind was that posited by Harnack some time ago. Nero s wife Poppea was Jewish, as was his freedman.
        Message 3 of 8 , Apr 11, 2002
        • 0 Attachment
          Thanks for your response.
          The type of collusion I had in mind was that posited by Harnack some time ago. Nero's wife Poppea was Jewish, as was his freedman. Further, as Harnack and others note, there was an ambassage of priests in Rome at the time of the burning, and the indication is that Nero's Jewish inner circle influenced him to delineate between Christians and Jews in his persecution, for the first time in history.
          In regard to the identity of Babylon as Jerusalem, I once held to the Rome=Babylon view. However, I no longer feel that is a tenable position. In my book, Who Is This Babylon? I present a great deal of information defending the Babylon= Jerusalem identification. I would be glad to share a copy with you if you would care to review it.
          It was favorably reviewed by Basil Lourie of this list last year.
          Don K.
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 1:23 PM
          Subject: RE: [revelation-list] question for the list

          Don,
           
          I don't have any advice under the terms of the questions you asked, but would urge you to re-examine your identification of Babylon with Jerusalem.
           
          By the way, what sort of confederacy or collusion between "Israel/the Jews" and Rome under Nero do you have in mind?
           
           --jwm
          _____________________________________________________________________
          John W. Marshall                               Assistant Professor
                                                                  Department for the Study of Religion
                                                                  University of Toronto
          john.marshall@...                416.978.8122
          -----Original Message-----
          From: DON K [mailto:dkpret@...]
          Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 2:16 PM
          To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [revelation-list] question for the list

          Would like some good source materials for research on this question:
          The Apocalypse posits a partnership between the Beast, (ostensibly Rome), and the Harlot city, Babylon, (I suggest Jerusalem), in persecuting the saints.
          What evidence exists of a partnership between Rome and Israel/the Jews?
          It seems clear that there was collusion under Nero.
          However, I know of none for the Domitianic, and Trajanic period. What about under Decius, Diocletian, etc.?
          I am not speaking of local, individual situations e.g. the case of Polycarp. I speak of a confederacy, however loose, between Rome and Israel.
          Thanks in advance.
          Don K. Preston
          Who Is This Babylon?


          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          revelation-list-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          revelation-list-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
        • Ed Garcia
          JWM, I am curious, then how do you understand the harlot? Ed Garcia Kansas ... From: John W. Marshall [mailto:john.marshall@utoronto.ca] Sent: Thursday, April
          Message 4 of 8 , Apr 11, 2002
          • 0 Attachment
            JWM,

            I am curious, then how do you understand the harlot?

            Ed Garcia
            Kansas

            -----Original Message-----
            From: John W. Marshall [mailto:john.marshall@...]
            Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 1:23 PM
            To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [revelation-list] question for the list


            Don,

            I don't have any advice under the terms of the questions you asked, but
            would urge you to re-examine your identification of Babylon with Jerusalem.

            By the way, what sort of confederacy or collusion between "Israel/the Jews"
            and Rome under Nero do you have in mind?

            --jwm
            _____________________________________________________________________
            John W. Marshall Assistant Professor
            Department for the
            Study of Religion
            University of
            Toronto
            john.marshall@... <mailto:john.marshall@...>
            416.978.8122

            -----Original Message-----
            From: DON K [mailto:dkpret@...]
            Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 2:16 PM
            To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [revelation-list] question for the list



            Would like some good source materials for research on this question:
            The Apocalypse posits a partnership between the Beast, (ostensibly Rome),
            and the Harlot city, Babylon, (I suggest Jerusalem), in persecuting the
            saints.
            What evidence exists of a partnership between Rome and Israel/the Jews?
            It seems clear that there was collusion under Nero.
            However, I know of none for the Domitianic, and Trajanic period. What about
            under Decius, Diocletian, etc.?
            I am not speaking of local, individual situations e.g. the case of Polycarp.
            I speak of a confederacy, however loose, between Rome and Israel.
            Thanks in advance.
            Don K. Preston
            Who Is This Babylon?


            To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            revelation-list-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
            <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .



            To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            revelation-list-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
            <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
          • Ed Garcia
            I am very interested in your book. How can I purchase a copy? Ed Garcia Kansas ... From: Don K. Preston [mailto:dkpret@brightok.net] Sent: Thursday, April 11,
            Message 5 of 8 , Apr 11, 2002
            • 0 Attachment
              I am very interested in your book. How can I purchase a copy?

              Ed Garcia
              Kansas

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Don K. Preston [mailto:dkpret@...]
              Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 4:19 PM
              To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [revelation-list] question for the list


              Thanks for your response.
              The type of collusion I had in mind was that posited by Harnack some time
              ago. Nero's wife Poppea was Jewish, as was his freedman. Further, as Harnack
              and others note, there was an ambassage of priests in Rome at the time of
              the burning, and the indication is that Nero's Jewish inner circle
              influenced him to delineate between Christians and Jews in his persecution,
              for the first time in history.
              In regard to the identity of Babylon as Jerusalem, I once held to the
              Rome=Babylon view. However, I no longer feel that is a tenable position. In
              my book, Who Is This Babylon? I present a great deal of information
              defending the Babylon= Jerusalem identification. I would be glad to share a
              copy with you if you would care to review it.
              It was favorably reviewed by Basil Lourie of this list last year.
              Don K.

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: John W. Marshall <mailto:john.marshall@...>
              To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com <mailto:revelation-list@yahoogroups.com>

              Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 1:23 PM
              Subject: RE: [revelation-list] question for the list

              Don,

              I don't have any advice under the terms of the questions you asked, but
              would urge you to re-examine your identification of Babylon with Jerusalem.

              By the way, what sort of confederacy or collusion between "Israel/the Jews"
              and Rome under Nero do you have in mind?

              --jwm
              _____________________________________________________________________
              John W. Marshall Assistant Professor
              Department for the
              Study of Religion
              University of
              Toronto
              john.marshall@... <mailto:john.marshall@...>
              416.978.8122

              -----Original Message-----
              From: DON K [mailto:dkpret@...]
              Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 2:16 PM
              To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [revelation-list] question for the list



              Would like some good source materials for research on this question:
              The Apocalypse posits a partnership between the Beast, (ostensibly Rome),
              and the Harlot city, Babylon, (I suggest Jerusalem), in persecuting the
              saints.
              What evidence exists of a partnership between Rome and Israel/the Jews?
              It seems clear that there was collusion under Nero.
              However, I know of none for the Domitianic, and Trajanic period. What about
              under Decius, Diocletian, etc.?
              I am not speaking of local, individual situations e.g. the case of Polycarp.
              I speak of a confederacy, however loose, between Rome and Israel.
              Thanks in advance.
              Don K. Preston
              Who Is This Babylon?


              To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              revelation-list-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
              <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .



              To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              revelation-list-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
              <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .



              Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

              ADVERTISEMENT

              <http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.1994012.3473453.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=17050740
              57:HM/A=1036972/R=0/*http://www.ediets.com/start.cfm?code=3466> Click Here!


              <http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=194081.1994012.3473453.1261774/D=egroupmai
              l/S=1705074057:HM/A=1036972/rand=740305834>

              To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              revelation-list-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
              <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
            • Don K. Preston
              Ed, you can order it from me. Just send a check or MO to: Don K. Preston 2712 Mt. Washington Rd. Ardmore, Ok. 73401 cost is $12.95 Postpaid. Thanks for your
              Message 6 of 8 , Apr 11, 2002
              • 0 Attachment
                Ed, you can order it from me. Just send a check or MO to:
                Don K. Preston
                2712 Mt. Washington Rd.
                Ardmore, Ok. 73401

                cost is $12.95 Postpaid.

                Thanks for your interest.
                Don K
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Ed Garcia <Ed.Garcia@...>
                To: <revelation-list@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 4:43 PM
                Subject: RE: [revelation-list] question for the list


                > I am very interested in your book. How can I purchase a copy?
                >
                > Ed Garcia
                > Kansas
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: Don K. Preston [mailto:dkpret@...]
                > Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 4:19 PM
                > To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: Re: [revelation-list] question for the list
                >
                >
                > Thanks for your response.
                > The type of collusion I had in mind was that posited by Harnack some time
                > ago. Nero's wife Poppea was Jewish, as was his freedman. Further, as
                Harnack
                > and others note, there was an ambassage of priests in Rome at the time of
                > the burning, and the indication is that Nero's Jewish inner circle
                > influenced him to delineate between Christians and Jews in his
                persecution,
                > for the first time in history.
                > In regard to the identity of Babylon as Jerusalem, I once held to the
                > Rome=Babylon view. However, I no longer feel that is a tenable position.
                In
                > my book, Who Is This Babylon? I present a great deal of information
                > defending the Babylon= Jerusalem identification. I would be glad to share
                a
                > copy with you if you would care to review it.
                > It was favorably reviewed by Basil Lourie of this list last year.
                > Don K.
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: John W. Marshall <mailto:john.marshall@...>
                > To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
                <mailto:revelation-list@yahoogroups.com>
                >
                > Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 1:23 PM
                > Subject: RE: [revelation-list] question for the list
                >
                > Don,
                >
                > I don't have any advice under the terms of the questions you asked, but
                > would urge you to re-examine your identification of Babylon with Jerusalem
                .
                >
                > By the way, what sort of confederacy or collusion between "Israel/the
                Jews"
                > and Rome under Nero do you have in mind?
                >
                > --jwm
                > _____________________________________________________________________
                > John W. Marshall Assistant Professor
                > Department for the
                > Study of Religion
                > University of
                > Toronto
                > john.marshall@... <mailto:john.marshall@...>
                > 416.978.8122
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: DON K [mailto:dkpret@...]
                > Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 2:16 PM
                > To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [revelation-list] question for the list
                >
                >
                >
                > Would like some good source materials for research on this question:
                > The Apocalypse posits a partnership between the Beast, (ostensibly Rome),
                > and the Harlot city, Babylon, (I suggest Jerusalem), in persecuting the
                > saints.
                > What evidence exists of a partnership between Rome and Israel/the Jews?
                > It seems clear that there was collusion under Nero.
                > However, I know of none for the Domitianic, and Trajanic period. What
                about
                > under Decius, Diocletian, etc.?
                > I am not speaking of local, individual situations e.g. the case of
                Polycarp.
                > I speak of a confederacy, however loose, between Rome and Israel.
                > Thanks in advance.
                > Don K. Preston
                > Who Is This Babylon?
                >
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > revelation-list-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
                >
                >
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > revelation-list-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                >
                > ADVERTISEMENT
                >
                >
                <http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.1994012.3473453.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=17050740
                > 57:HM/A=1036972/R=0/*http://www.ediets.com/start.cfm?code=3466> Click
                Here!
                >
                >
                >
                <http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=194081.1994012.3473453.1261774/D=egroupmai
                > l/S=1705074057:HM/A=1036972/rand=740305834>
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > revelation-list-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > revelation-list-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
                >
              • Greg Clarke
                Dear Rev-listers Can anyone provide me with references useful for examining the Aeneid in relation to New Testament eschatology? Of course, I m particularly
                Message 7 of 8 , Apr 16, 2002
                • 0 Attachment
                  The Aeneid and NT eschatology Dear Rev-listers

                  Can anyone provide me with references useful for examining the Aeneid in relation to New Testament eschatology? Of course, I'm particularly interested in parallels with Revelation.

                  I have had Putnam, M.C.J. Vergil's Aeneid: Interpretation and Influence recommended, but not having seen it I don't know what it covers.

                  Many thanks

                  Greg Clarke


                  .............................................................
                  Dr G.J.Clarke
                  Editor | Matthias Media
                  Contact:  office (61 2) 9663 1478
                              fax: (61 2) 9663 3265
                              email: gclarke@...
                              mail to: PO Box 225 | Kingsford | NSW | Australia | 2032
                • D.B.V.Kick
                  Hi Greg, I know J.J. Collins refers to the Aeneid when he classifies the genre of apocalyptic literature. I ve only looked at his book briefly so far, so I
                  Message 8 of 8 , Apr 17, 2002
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hi Greg,

                    I know J.J. Collins refers to the Aeneid when he classifies the genre of
                    apocalyptic literature. I've only looked at his book briefly so far, so
                    I don't know whether he elaborates on parallels between Rev and Vergil
                    further into his book...

                    J.J. Collins, "Apocalypse: The Morphology of a Genre" Semeia 14
                    (Missoula, 1979).

                    hope this helps a bit!

                    Donata Kick



                    Greg Clarke wrote:
                    >
                    > Dear Rev-listers
                    >
                    > Can anyone provide me with references useful for examining the Aeneid
                    > in relation to New Testament eschatology? Of course, I'm particularly
                    > interested in parallels with Revelation.
                    >
                    > I have had Putnam, M.C.J. Vergil's Aeneid: Interpretation and
                    > Influence recommended, but not having seen it I don't know what it
                    > covers.
                    >
                    > Many thanks
                    >
                    > Greg Clarke
                    >
                    > .............................................................
                    > Dr G.J.Clarke
                    > Editor | Matthias Media
                    > Contact: office (61 2) 9663 1478
                    > fax: (61 2) 9663 3265
                    > email: gclarke@...
                    > mail to: PO Box 225 | Kingsford | NSW | Australia | 2032
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                    > ADVERTISEMENT
                    > [Click Here!]
                    >
                    >
                    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > revelation-list-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.