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Re: The hidden manna and the white stone (Rev 2)

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  • Ken Flowers
    Lund suggests (and I concur) that the letters chiastically correspond with a second set of seven angels: The First Angel (17:1-18) The Second Angel (18:1-20)
    Message 1 of 5 , Dec 17, 2001
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      Lund suggests (and I concur) that the letters chiastically correspond with
      a second set of seven angels:

      The First Angel (17:1-18)
      The Second Angel (18:1-20)
      The Third Angel (18:21-24)
      A Heavenly Scene (19:1-10)
      The Fourth Angel's Place: Jesus (19:11-16)
      The Fifth Angel (19:17-21)
      The Sixth Angel (20:1-15)
      A Heavenly Scene (21:1-8)
      The Seventh Angel (21:9-22:5)

      Don't expect Revelation's chiasm and parallels to be obviously
      regular. The author frequently jumps among many structural forms. At the
      highest level he uses a 3-1-3 setup that puts Jesus in the center of the
      action as follows:

      Three letters <----> Three angels
      One Letter (Jesus in Intro and Promise, Rod of Iron) <--
      --> Jesus in Angel's Place (Rod of Iron)
      Three letters <----> Three angels

      Other parallels from the seven letters are scattered among the seven
      angels. I would not be surprised to find a regular pattern, but I haven't
      seen it yet.

      I haven't pushed much harder than that on lower level parallels (yet), but
      the conceptual similarities in the two sections abound. For instance,
      stones and food feature prominently in the first three angels. Also look
      at 19:12 for the name "that no man knew, but he himself."

      Ken Flowers
      Lexington, MA
    • Georg S. Adamsen
      Greetings! You may want to check out: Wong, Daniel K. K. The Hidden Manna and the White Stone in Revelation 2:17. BSac 155, no. 619 (1998): 346-54. as well
      Message 2 of 5 , Dec 18, 2001
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        Greetings!


        You may want to check out:

        Wong, Daniel K. K. "The Hidden Manna and the White Stone in Revelation
        2:17." BSac 155, no. 619 (1998): 346-54.

        as well as

        Wilson, Mark Wayne. "A Pie in a Very Bleak Sky? Analysis and
        Appropriation of the Promise Sayings in the Seven Letters to the
        Churches in Revelation 2--3." Doctor of Literature and
        Philosophy-dissertation, University of South Africa, 1996.

        Wilson's thesis is a very comprehensive survey and analysis of both
        intratextual and historical connections. You will no doubt find it
        useful. I don't think it has been published (yet), but perhaps he will
        send you an electronic copy? I think he may even be on this list. If
        not, perhaps you can find him via Regent College or University in
        Vancouver. I know that he was teaching there some time ago. If any of
        you list members know where he is currently teaching, please, let us
        know.

        I may have some thoughts on the issue of the hidden manna and the white
        stone, but, unfortunately, I am too busy right now.

        Georg S. Adamsen
        Ass. Prof. of NT, LSTA

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Greg Clarke [mailto:gregjclarke@...]
        Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 7:55 AM
        To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [revelation-list] The hidden manna and the white stone (Rev 2)
      • Paul Anderson
        ... Thanks, Greg and Georg. A related excursion might explore the works of Peder Borgen and myself on the homiletical developments of manna rhetoric in Philo,
        Message 3 of 5 , Dec 18, 2001
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          revelation-list@yahoogroups.com writes:
          >I may have some thoughts on the issue of the hidden manna and the white
          >stone, but, unfortunately, I am too busy right now.
          >
          >Georg S. Adamsen
          >Ass. Prof. of NT, LSTA

          revelation-list@yahoogroups.com writes:
          >what views do people have on the sources for the hidden manna and white
          >stone metaphors/symbols?
          >Ćdoes anyone have a view on how or whether the promise of 2:17 might be
          >fulfilled in the narrative?
          >
          >Thank you very much
          >
          >Greg Clarke

          Thanks, Greg and Georg. A related excursion might explore the works of
          Peder Borgen and myself on the homiletical developments of manna rhetoric
          in Philo, the midrashim, and the Gospel of John. Borgen's main source is
          his monograph, _Bread from Heaven_ (Brill), and mine is _The Christology
          of the Fourth Gospel; Its Unity and Disunity in the Light of John 6_
          (Mohr/Siebeck, TPI).

          A related essay of mine ("The Sitz im Leben of the Johannine Bread of Life
          Discourse and its Evolving Context" in _Critical Readings of John 6_, ed.
          by Alan Culpepper, E. J. Brill, 1997, pp.1-59) considers four ways in
          which death-producing food (typified by the miscomprehensions of Jesus'
          discussants) is contrasted to the life-producing food which Jesus gives
          and is. Coincitendally, these four types of inauthentic food (note
          parallels between John 6:27 and the way of death / way of life of the
          Didache) match a scenario of Johannine Christianity's history involving
          four crises also implied in the Johannine Apocalypse (in addition to the
          Roman crisis in the background, not these four sequential-but-overlapping
          crises: Synoptic-type thaumaturgy versus revelational semeiology, the
          "bread" of the Torah versus the eschatologically present workings of God,
          the "nourishment" of Jesus' obedience and the way of the cross versus
          docetizing assimilation with Rome, and attentiveness to Jesus who holds
          the keys to life and death versus structuralistic approaches to church
          order -- see Tables 20 and 21 in my book).

          The Revelation reference to hidden manna relates, I believe, to the
          nourishment that sustains one existentially despite outward hardship
          endured because of one's faithfulness to the way of God as one understood
          it. The hiddenness relates to the paradoxcial character of suffering
          endured for one's faithulness in the light of Roman pressures toward
          imperial assimilation. I'll let someone else comment on the white stone.

          Paul N. Anderson
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