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Re: [revelation-list] Introducing myself

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  • merritt spencer
    I would suggest it is both.
    Message 1 of 14 , Nov 7, 2001
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      I would suggest it is both.

      Edgar Krentz wrote:

      > At 9:09 AM -0600 11/7/01, merritt spencer wrote:
      > >How is Jesus the first born from physcial death since He raised others from
      > >physical death before He died physically?
      >
      > Because "first born" is not a statement of chronology, but of
      > position. Read the commentaries on Col 1:15 for the evidence, and
      > BDAG, s.v.
      >
      > --
      > ****************************************************************
      > Edgar Krentz
      > Christ Seminary--Seminex Professor of New Testament, Emeritus
      > Lutheran School of Theology at Chicago
      > 1100 East 55th Street, Chicago, IL 60615
      > Tel: 773-256-0773; home phone 773-947-8105
      > e-mail: ekrentz@...
      > home e-mail: ekrentz@...
      > ------------------------------------------------------------
      > GERASKO D' AEI POLLA DIDASKOMENOS
      > "I grow old, constantly learning many things." [Solon of Athens]
      > ***************************************************************
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    • merritt spencer
      I see the wisdom and the law,etc i.e. the word of God being Jesus personified. Yes He existed before all creation but the first born from death is a reference
      Message 2 of 14 , Nov 7, 2001
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        I see the wisdom and the law,etc i.e. the word of God being Jesus
        personified. Yes He existed before all creation but the first born from
        death is a reference to His resurrection after being spiritually as well as
        physically deceased and when He came back from spiritual death He provided a
        way for me and you to also come back from the spiritual grave, the one in
        which we are baptised unto death and the one from which we are raised to walk
        in newness of life.

        Loren Johns wrote:

        > "Firstborn" functioned somewhat like pre-existence in early Judaism.
        > Various things, such as wisdom, the Law, etc., were created before the
        > world was created. This served to underscore the cosmological or
        > theological importance of whatever preexisted creation. It should not be
        > read as a historical claim.
        >
        > Loren Johns
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: merritt spencer [mailto:mspencer@...]
        > Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2001 10:10 AM
        > To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [revelation-list] Introducing myself
        >
        > How is Jesus the first born from physcial death since He raised others
        > from physical death before He died physically?
        >
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      • Loren Johns
        I would say that your method of doing theology is not sufficiently informed by historical work, which does not entirely control, but should inform and provide
        Message 3 of 14 , Nov 7, 2001
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          I would say that your method of doing theology is not sufficiently
          informed by historical work, which does not entirely control, but should
          inform and provide some limits of plausibility on the doing of theology.
          Certainly the Jewish writers who developed or at least used the category
          of preexistence theologically were not thinking of Jesus.

          Loren Johns

          -----Original Message-----
          From: merritt spencer [mailto:mspencer@...]
          Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2001 11:38 AM
          To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [revelation-list] Introducing myself


          I see the wisdom and the law,etc i.e. the word of God being Jesus
          personified. Yes He existed before all creation but the first born from
          death is a reference to His resurrection after being spiritually as well
          as physically deceased and when He came back from spiritual death He
          provided a way for me and you to also come back from the spiritual
          grave, the one in which we are baptised unto death and the one from
          which we are raised to walk in newness of life.


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          Do You Yahoo!?
          Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com
        • Georg S. Adamsen
          Dear list members It is not always easy to determine whether prospect subscribers have the appropriate qualifications. I think I made a mistake some time ago,
          Message 4 of 14 , Nov 7, 2001
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            Dear list members

            It is not always easy to determine whether prospect subscribers have the
            appropriate qualifications. I think I made a mistake some time ago, and
            a friendly warning off the list did not have the intended effect. Thus,
            I have just unsubscribed one of the members.

            Perhaps we should end this discussion then?

            I apologise for any inconvenience.

            Georg S. Adamsen
            Listowner
          • Edgar Krentz
            ... Where does not NT ever say that Jesus died spiritually? This is a quite modern, non-NT description. --
            Message 5 of 14 , Nov 7, 2001
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              At 10:38 AM -0600 11/7/01, merritt spencer wrote:
              >I see the wisdom and the law,etc i.e. the word of God being Jesus
              >personified. Yes He existed before all creation but the first born from
              >death is a reference to His resurrection after being spiritually as well as
              >physically deceased and when He came back from spiritual death He provided a
              >way for me and you to also come back from the spiritual grave, the one in
              >which we are baptised unto death and the one from which we are raised to walk
              >in newness of life.

              Where does not NT ever say that Jesus died spiritually? This is a
              quite modern, non-NT description.



              --
              ****************************************************************
              Edgar Krentz
              Christ Seminary--Seminex Professor of New Testament, Emeritus
              Lutheran School of Theology at Chicago
              1100 East 55th Street, Chicago, IL 60615
              Tel: 773-256-0773; home phone 773-947-8105
              e-mail: ekrentz@...
              home e-mail: ekrentz@...
              ------------------------------------------------------------
              GERASKO D' AEI POLLA DIDASKOMENOS
              "I grow old, constantly learning many things." [Solon of Athens]
              ***************************************************************
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