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RE: [revelation-list] Lamblike Beast

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  • Ed Garcia
    Revelation is indeed filled with metaphor and symbols and one could possibly even argue symbols of symbols. I do understand that. But don t get me wrong, I am
    Message 1 of 15 , Nov 1 8:45 AM
      Revelation is indeed filled with metaphor and symbols and one could possibly
      even argue symbols of symbols. I do understand that. But don't get me wrong,
      I am not saying that the beast, false prophet, the woman giving birth or
      whoever must be understood as individuals only. There is also a corporate
      quality to these characters. I believe that characters such as the beast and
      false prophet point not only to individuals but, as I termed it above, to
      corporate entities as well. As I said systems can be punished but not thrown
      into a lake of fire, individuals can be thrown into a lake of fire. Nations,
      organizations, political movements and whatever cannot be punished in an
      after life so they are punished (plagued) here on earth, in this life. Lost
      individuals who foment, or otherwise follow whole-heartedly doomed movements
      can be punished in an after life - and will be. Thus in Revelation we have
      bowls and trumpets raining punishments down on the wicked and in the end we
      have the Beast and false Prophet, as well as Satan being thrown into the
      lake of fire.

      The idea that a leader can stand for a group is, I believe, biblical.

      I also believe that nations and groups of people cannot be punished in the
      world to come and so are punished in this world and that errant individuals
      will be punished in the life to come. I believe this too to be biblical.

      As I said above, I am not saying that the Beast and others are to be
      understood solely as individuals. I am saying that they should be understood
      as symbols of both individuals and groups. My original posting was to
      explain my disagreement with Rev. Paul who in an e-mail dated 10/30 says

      "I think I would need some other evidence from Revelation itself before
      saying that the beasts refer to persons rather than systems/empires."

      Ian's statement suggests that he does not see the Beast and other characters
      as representing individuals but only movements or corporate bodies. I
      disagree with this, I understand such symbols to symbolize both individual
      and corporate entities, this would in turn demand the existence of a
      movement of some sort as well. I hope this helps to clarify my ideas.
      Thanks.

      -Ed Garcia
      Kansas



      -----Original Message-----
      From: Dave Mathewson [mailto:d_mathewson@...]
      Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 1:35 PM
      To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [revelation-list] Lamblike Beast


      Ed Garcia writes: "Systems can be judged but how do you throw a system into

      the lake of fire? Individuals, however, can be thrown into the lake of
      fire."

      But is this perhaps not too subtle of an approach to Rev's metaphorical
      language? At a literal level, this would be a difficulty, but at a
      metaphorical level, no more a difficulty that having a woman who gives birth

      to a son representing (at least in part) a nation, or the Christ being both
      a Lion and a Lamb.

      Dave Mathewson

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