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Re: [revelation-list] Comparing two scenes of heaven

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  • David Brubaker
    ... I m going to have to take a closer look at Ressequie. Your article sounds interesting and rather unique too. Here are a few more observations about the
    Message 1 of 7 , May 2, 2011
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      Quoting Jon Newton <jonknewton@...>:

      >
      > What stands out in our comment was the narrative structure in Rev,
      > which is still being unpacked by scholars, e.g. Resseguie, see also
      > my article "Reading Revelation Romantically" in JPT 2009

      I'm going to have to take a closer look at Ressequie. Your article
      sounds interesting and rather unique too.

      Here are a few more observations about the narrative structure:

      The "story" aspect appears in several ways in the series of series of
      plagues (seals, trumpets, bowls) on the earth, in ways that both move
      the story along progressively and tie it together coherently with
      common elements.

      For instance, there is the increasing resemblance of the Revelation
      plagues to the plagues sent upon Egypt in Exodus leading up to the
      release of the children of Israel. The seals bear virtually no
      resemblance to the Exodus plagues, some of the trumpets bear
      significant resemblance, and many of the bowls bear even stronger
      resemblance.

      But there is another connection to the Exodus plagues that I don't
      often hear discussed. That is the parallel in the story structure
      itself--in Exodus, the plagues come one right after another until the
      next-to-last of the series is finished. Then between the next-to-last
      and last plagues, there is a sort of interlude when God gives
      instructions to Moses on how to prepare the people for the last plague
      so that they will be saved from it in the original Passover. Then
      comes the final plague. A similar story structure appears in the seals
      and the trumpets--all but one plague in the series occurs, then there
      is an interlude, and then the final plague of the series comes. Even
      the series of series follows that pattern--all but one of the series
      (seals and trumpets) happens, then there is a long interlude
      (12:1-14:20) before the final series (bowls). Of all the series of
      plagues and series of series of plagues, only the final bowls series
      does not have the characteristic Exodus-like interlude before its last
      plague.

      Another progression in the story as well as a tying-together factor is
      the sequence of what the Revelation story says about the wrath of God
      and the Lamb through these series. In the seals, the wrath of God is
      present but not explained in the text. "The great day of their wrath
      has come" (6:17) but Revelation doesn't tell us any reason for God's
      anger. We can make the natural assumption that it is because of sin,
      but it may be useful to note that there is no mention of sin, the law,
      or repentance in the whole seals section of the story, including the
      seals themselves and the interlude before the last seal.

      Then in the trumpets, Revelation says explicitly that God's wrath is
      about lack of repentance for sin. 9:20-21 lists a number of kinds of
      sin for which people have failed to repent.

      Finally, in the bowls "the wrath of God is ended" (15:1). Interesting
      sequence about wrath--no reason is stated for wrath, wrath is a result
      of unrepentant sin, wrath is ended.

      David Brubaker
    • e_s_c_h_a_t_o_n
      It appears to me that the wrath is for the whoredom of Babylon (Rev 16:19, 17:1, 18:3,) and in other places persecution of the saints (6:10, 20:4). Alan Fuller
      Message 2 of 7 , May 3, 2011
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        It appears to me that the wrath is for the whoredom of Babylon (Rev 16:19, 17:1, 18:3,) and in other places persecution of the saints (6:10, 20:4).


        Alan Fuller
        http://www.lulu.com/arfuller

        --- In revelation-list@yahoogroups.com, David Brubaker <dave@...>
        > Finally, in the bowls "the wrath of God is ended" (15:1). Interesting
        > sequence about wrath--no reason is stated for wrath, wrath is a result
        > of unrepentant sin, wrath is ended.
        >
        > David Brubaker
        >
      • Jon Newton
        Good insights, David Resseguie, I and others see a more conventional plot in the narrative of Revelation. In my article, I see it building up to a climax
        Message 3 of 7 , May 4, 2011
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          Good insights, David

          Resseguie, I and others see a more conventional "plot" in the narrative of Revelation.

          In my article, I see it building up to a climax like a play or novel, which ends with a wedding (hence my attention to the romance element)


          (Dr) Jon Newton


          --- On Tue, 3/5/11, David Brubaker <dave@...> wrote:

          From: David Brubaker <dave@...>
          Subject: Re: [revelation-list] Comparing two scenes of heaven
          To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
          Received: Tuesday, 3 May, 2011, 2:03 PM







           









          Quoting Jon Newton <jonknewton@...>:



          >

          > What stands out in our comment was the narrative structure in Rev,

          > which is still being unpacked by scholars, e.g. Resseguie, see also

          > my article "Reading Revelation Romantically" in JPT 2009



          I'm going to have to take a closer look at Ressequie. Your article

          sounds interesting and rather unique too.



          Here are a few more observations about the narrative structure:



          The "story" aspect appears in several ways in the series of series of

          plagues (seals, trumpets, bowls) on the earth, in ways that both move

          the story along progressively and tie it together coherently with

          common elements.



          For instance, there is the increasing resemblance of the Revelation

          plagues to the plagues sent upon Egypt in Exodus leading up to the

          release of the children of Israel. The seals bear virtually no

          resemblance to the Exodus plagues, some of the trumpets bear

          significant resemblance, and many of the bowls bear even stronger

          resemblance.



          But there is another connection to the Exodus plagues that I don't

          often hear discussed. That is the parallel in the story structure

          itself--in Exodus, the plagues come one right after another until the

          next-to-last of the series is finished. Then between the next-to-last

          and last plagues, there is a sort of interlude when God gives

          instructions to Moses on how to prepare the people for the last plague

          so that they will be saved from it in the original Passover. Then

          comes the final plague. A similar story structure appears in the seals

          and the trumpets--all but one plague in the series occurs, then there

          is an interlude, and then the final plague of the series comes. Even

          the series of series follows that pattern--all but one of the series

          (seals and trumpets) happens, then there is a long interlude

          (12:1-14:20) before the final series (bowls). Of all the series of

          plagues and series of series of plagues, only the final bowls series

          does not have the characteristic Exodus-like interlude before its last

          plague.



          Another progression in the story as well as a tying-together factor is

          the sequence of what the Revelation story says about the wrath of God

          and the Lamb through these series. In the seals, the wrath of God is

          present but not explained in the text. "The great day of their wrath

          has come" (6:17) but Revelation doesn't tell us any reason for God's

          anger. We can make the natural assumption that it is because of sin,

          but it may be useful to note that there is no mention of sin, the law,

          or repentance in the whole seals section of the story, including the

          seals themselves and the interlude before the last seal.



          Then in the trumpets, Revelation says explicitly that God's wrath is

          about lack of repentance for sin. 9:20-21 lists a number of kinds of

          sin for which people have failed to repent.



          Finally, in the bowls "the wrath of God is ended" (15:1). Interesting

          sequence about wrath--no reason is stated for wrath, wrath is a result

          of unrepentant sin, wrath is ended.



          David Brubaker






















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