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Origin of Chiliasm

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  • e_s_c_h_a_t_o_n
    Some blame Cerinthius or first century Rabbis for the origin of chiliasm. Sometimes the prophecy of weeks in 1 Enoch is mentioned, but one place I find rarily
    Message 1 of 8 , May 29, 2010
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      Some blame Cerinthius or first century Rabbis for the origin of chiliasm. Sometimes the prophecy of weeks in 1 Enoch is mentioned, but one place I find rarily referred to is the book of Jubilees.

      >>IV.29 And at the close of the nineteenth jubilee in the seventh week in the sixth year thereof Adam died and all his sons buried him in the land of his creation and he was the first to be buried in the earth 30 And he lacked seventy years of one thousand years
      for one thousand years are as one day in the testimony of the heavens
      and therefore was it written concerning the tree of knowledge. On the day that ye eat thereof ye will die For this reason he did not complete the years of this day for he died during it.<<

      It seems both Justin Martyr and Irenaeus had this in mind.


      >>... Now we have understood that the expression used among these words, `According to the days of the tree shall be the days of my people; the works of their toil shall abound' obscurely predicts a thousand years. For as Adam was told that in the day he ate of the tree he would die, we know that he did not complete a thousand years. We have perceived, moreover, that the expression, `The day of the Lord is as a thousand years,' (Ps. xc. 4; 2 Pet. iii. 8.) is connected with this subject. And further, there was a certain man with us, whose name was John, one of the apostles of Christ, who prophesied, by a revelation that was made to him, that those who believed in our Christ would dwell (Rev. xx. 4–5) a thousand years in Jerusalem; and that thereafter the general, and, in short, the eternal resurrection and judgment of all men would likewise take place. Just as our Lord also said, `They shall neither marry nor be given in marriage, but shall be equal to the angels, the children of the God of the resurrection.'(Luke xx. 35) Dialogue with Trypho, Chapter LXXXI.<<


      >>...For by summing up in Himself the whole human race from the beginning to the end, He has also summed up its death. From this it is clear that the Lord suffered death, in obedience to His Father, upon that day on which Adam died while he disobeyed God. Now he died on the same day in which he did eat. For God said, "In that day on which ye shall eat of it, ye shall die by death."(Gen. ii. 16, 17) The Lord, therefore, recapitulating in Himself this day, underwent His sufferings upon the day preceding the Sabbath, that is, the sixth day of the creation, on which day man was created; thus granting him a second creation by means of His passion, which is that [creation] out of death. And there are some, again, who relegate the death of Adam to the thousandth year; for since "a day of the Lord is as a thousand years," (2 Pet. iii. 8) he did not overstep the thousand years, but died within them, thus bearing out the sentence of his sin. Whether, therefore, with respect to disobedience, which is death; whether [we consider] that, on account of that, they were delivered over to death, and made debtors to it; whether with respect to [the fact that on] one and the same day on which they ate they also died (for it is one day of the creation); whether [we regard this point], that, with respect to this cycle of days, they died on the day in which they did also eat, that is, the day] of the preparation, which is termed "the pure supper," that is, the sixth day of the feast, which the Lord also exhibited when He suffered on that day; or whether [we reflect] that he (Adam) did not overstep the thousand years, but died within their limit,-it follows that, in regard to all these significations, God is indeed true. For they died who tasted of the tree; and the serpent is proved a liar and a murderer, as the Lord said of him: "For he is a murderer from the beginning, and the truth is not in him."(John viii. 44) Against the Heresies, Book V. Chapter XXIII<<

      Alan Fuller
      http://www.lulu.com/arfuller
    • George F Somsel
      One must not restrict oneself to either Enoch or Jubilees for the background of chiliastic thought.  Papias was known to be a chiliast saying The days will
      Message 2 of 8 , May 29, 2010
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        One must not restrict oneself to either Enoch or Jubilees for the background of chiliastic thought.  Papias was known to be a chiliast saying

        The days will come when vines will grow, each having ten thousand shoots, and on each shoot ten thousand branches, and on each branch ten thousand twigs, and on each twig ten thousand clusters, and in each cluster ten thousand grapes, and each grape when crushed will yield twenty-five measures of wine. And when one of the saints takes hold of a cluster, another cluster will cry out, "I am better, take me, bless the Lord through me." Similarly a grain of wheat will produce ten thousand heads, and every head will have ten thousand grains, and every grain ten pounds of fine flour, white and clean. And the other fruits, seeds, and grass will produce in similar proportions, and all the animals feeding on these fruits produced by the soil will in turn become peaceful and harmonious toward one another, and fully subject to man.
         
        Holmes, Michael William. The Apostolic Fathers : Greek Texts and English Translations (Fragments of Papias). Updated ed. Grand Rapids, Mich.: Baker Books, 1999.
         
        Compare this with
         291 And He answered and said unto me: ‘Whatever will then befall (will befall) the whole earth; therefore all who live will experience (them). 2 For at that time I will protect only those who are found in those self-same days in this land. 3 And it shall come to pass when all is accomplished that was to come to pass in those parts, that the Messiah shall then begin to be revealed. 4 And Behemoth shall be revealed from his place and Leviathan shall ascend from the sea, those two great monsters which I created on the fifth day of creation, and shall have kept until that time; and then they shall be for food for all that are left. 5 The earth also shall yield its fruit ten thousandfold and on each (?) V 2, p 498 vine there shall be a thousand branches, and each branch shall produce a thousand clusters, and each cluster produce a thousand grapes, and each grape produce a cot of wine. 6 And those who have hungered shall rejoice: moreover, also, they shall
        behold marvels every day. 7 For winds shall go forth from before Me to bring every morning the fragrance of aromatic fruits, and at the close of the day clouds distilling the dew of health. 8 And it shall come to pass at that self-same time that the treasury of manna shall again descend from on high, and they will eat of it in those years, because these are they who have come to the consummation of time.
         Pseudepigrapha of the Old Testament
         
        It would seem to have been a general characteristic of Jewish apocalypticism.
         
         
        george
        gfsomsel


        … search for truth, hear truth,
        learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
        defend the truth till death.


        - Jan Hus
        _________




        ________________________________
        From: e_s_c_h_a_t_o_n <rocsy@...>
        To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sat, May 29, 2010 8:42:16 AM
        Subject: [revelation-list] Origin of Chiliasm

         
        Some blame Cerinthius or first century Rabbis for the origin of chiliasm. Sometimes the prophecy of weeks in 1 Enoch is mentioned, but one place I find rarily referred to is the book of Jubilees.

        >>IV.29 And at the close of the nineteenth jubilee in the seventh week in the sixth year thereof Adam died and all his sons buried him in the land of his creation and he was the first to be buried in the earth 30 And he lacked seventy years of one thousand years
        for one thousand years are as one day in the testimony of the heavens
        and therefore was it written concerning the tree of knowledge. On the day that ye eat thereof ye will die For this reason he did not complete the years of this day for he died during it.<<

        It seems both Justin Martyr and Irenaeus had this in mind.

        >>... Now we have understood that the expression used among these words, `According to the days of the tree shall be the days of my people; the works of their toil shall abound' obscurely predicts a thousand years. For as Adam was told that in the day he ate of the tree he would die, we know that he did not complete a thousand years. We have perceived, moreover, that the expression, `The day of the Lord is as a thousand years,' (Ps. xc. 4; 2 Pet. iii. 8.) is connected with this subject. And further, there was a certain man with us, whose name was John, one of the apostles of Christ, who prophesied, by a revelation that was made to him, that those who believed in our Christ would dwell (Rev. xx. 4–5) a thousand years in Jerusalem; and that thereafter the general, and, in short, the eternal resurrection and judgment of all men would likewise take place. Just as our Lord also said, `They shall neither marry nor be given in marriage, but shall be equal to
        the angels, the children of the God of the resurrection.'(Luke xx. 35) Dialogue with Trypho, Chapter LXXXI.<<

        >>...For by summing up in Himself the whole human race from the beginning to the end, He has also summed up its death. From this it is clear that the Lord suffered death, in obedience to His Father, upon that day on which Adam died while he disobeyed God. Now he died on the same day in which he did eat. For God said, "In that day on which ye shall eat of it, ye shall die by death."(Gen. ii. 16, 17) The Lord, therefore, recapitulating in Himself this day, underwent His sufferings upon the day preceding the Sabbath, that is, the sixth day of the creation, on which day man was created; thus granting him a second creation by means of His passion, which is that [creation] out of death. And there are some, again, who relegate the death of Adam to the thousandth year; for since "a day of the Lord is as a thousand years," (2 Pet. iii. 8) he did not overstep the thousand years, but died within them, thus bearing out the sentence of his sin. Whether, therefore,
        with respect to disobedience, which is death; whether [we consider] that, on account of that, they were delivered over to death, and made debtors to it; whether with respect to [the fact that on] one and the same day on which they ate they also died (for it is one day of the creation); whether [we regard this point], that, with respect to this cycle of days, they died on the day in which they did also eat, that is, the day] of the preparation, which is termed "the pure supper," that is, the sixth day of the feast, which the Lord also exhibited when He suffered on that day; or whether [we reflect] that he (Adam) did not overstep the thousand years, but died within their limit,-it follows that, in regard to all these significations, God is indeed true. For they died who tasted of the tree; and the serpent is proved a liar and a murderer, as the Lord said of him: "For he is a murderer from the beginning, and the truth is not in him."(John viii. 44) Against
        the Heresies, Book V. Chapter XXIII<<

        Alan Fuller
        http://www.lulu.com/arfuller


        , 2 Baruch 29.1-8. Edited by Charles, Robert Henry. Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2004.




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • e_s_c_h_a_t_o_n
        That would be the Apocalypse of Baruch 29:1-8. I believe Jubilees precedes it by two or three hundred years.
        Message 3 of 8 , May 29, 2010
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          That would be the Apocalypse of Baruch 29:1-8. I believe Jubilees precedes it by two or three hundred years.


          --- In revelation-list@yahoogroups.com, George F Somsel <gfsomsel@...> wrote:
          >
          > One must not restrict oneself to either Enoch or Jubilees for the background of chiliastic thought.  Papias was known to be a chiliast saying
          >
          > The days will come when vines will grow, each having ten thousand shoots, and on each shoot ten thousand branches, and on each branch ten thousand twigs, and on each twig ten thousand clusters, and in each cluster ten thousand grapes, and each grape when crushed will yield twenty-five measures of wine. And when one of the saints takes hold of a cluster, another cluster will cry out, "I am better, take me, bless the Lord through me." Similarly a grain of wheat will produce ten thousand heads, and every head will have ten thousand grains, and every grain ten pounds of fine flour, white and clean. And the other fruits, seeds, and grass will produce in similar proportions, and all the animals feeding on these fruits produced by the soil will in turn become peaceful and harmonious toward one another, and fully subject to man.
          >  
          > Holmes, Michael William. The Apostolic Fathers : Greek Texts and English Translations (Fragments of Papias). Updated ed. Grand Rapids, Mich.: Baker Books, 1999.
          >  
          > Compare this with
          >  291 And He answered and said unto me: ‘Whatever will then befall (will befall) the whole earth; therefore all who live will experience (them). 2 For at that time I will protect only those who are found in those self-same days in this land. 3 And it shall come to pass when all is accomplished that was to come to pass in those parts, that the Messiah shall then begin to be revealed. 4 And Behemoth shall be revealed from his place and Leviathan shall ascend from the sea, those two great monsters which I created on the fifth day of creation, and shall have kept until that time; and then they shall be for food for all that are left. 5 The earth also shall yield its fruit ten thousandfold and on each (?) V 2, p 498 vine there shall be a thousand branches, and each branch shall produce a thousand clusters, and each cluster produce a thousand grapes, and each grape produce a cot of wine. 6 And those who have hungered shall rejoice: moreover, also, they shall
          > behold marvels every day. 7 For winds shall go forth from before Me to bring every morning the fragrance of aromatic fruits, and at the close of the day clouds distilling the dew of health. 8 And it shall come to pass at that self-same time that the treasury of manna shall again descend from on high, and they will eat of it in those years, because these are they who have come to the consummation of time.
          >  Pseudepigrapha of the Old Testament
          >  
          > It would seem to have been a general characteristic of Jewish apocalypticism.
          >  
          >  
          > george
          > gfsomsel
          >
          >
          > … search for truth, hear truth,
          > learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
          > defend the truth till death.
          >
          >
          > - Jan Hus
          > _________
          >
        • George F Somsel
          That s about right.  It was found at Qumran so we know with certainty that it existed then.  As I recall the Qumran calendar differed from that of the Temple
          Message 4 of 8 , May 29, 2010
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            That's about right.  It was found at Qumran so we know with certainty that it existed then.  As I recall the Qumran calendar differed from that of the Temple and seems to have been based on Jubilees.
             george
            gfsomsel


            … search for truth, hear truth,
            learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
            defend the truth till death.


            - Jan Hus
            _________




            ________________________________
            From: e_s_c_h_a_t_o_n <rocsy@...>
            To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sat, May 29, 2010 11:38:07 AM
            Subject: [revelation-list] Re: Origin of Chiliasm

             


            That would be the Apocalypse of Baruch 29:1-8. I believe Jubilees precedes it by two or three hundred years.

            --- In revelation-list@yahoogroups.com, George F Somsel <gfsomsel@...> wrote:
            >
            > One must not restrict oneself to either Enoch or Jubilees for the background of chiliastic thought.  Papias was known to be a chiliast saying
            >
            > The days will come when vines will grow, each having ten thousand shoots, and on each shoot ten thousand branches, and on each branch ten thousand twigs, and on each twig ten thousand clusters, and in each cluster ten thousand grapes, and each grape when crushed will yield twenty-five measures of wine. And when one of the saints takes hold of a cluster, another cluster will cry out, "I am better, take me, bless the Lord through me." Similarly a grain of wheat will produce ten thousand heads, and every head will have ten thousand grains, and every grain ten pounds of fine flour, white and clean. And the other fruits, seeds, and grass will produce in similar proportions, and all the animals feeding on these fruits produced by the soil will in turn become peaceful and harmonious toward one another, and fully subject to man.
            >  
            > Holmes, Michael William. The Apostolic Fathers : Greek Texts and English Translations (Fragments of Papias). Updated ed. Grand Rapids, Mich.: Baker Books, 1999.
            >  
            > Compare this with
            >  291 And He answered and said unto me: ‘Whatever will then befall (will befall) the whole earth; therefore all who live will experience (them). 2 For at that time I will protect only those who are found in those self-same days in this land. 3 And it shall come to pass when all is accomplished that was to come to pass in those parts, that the Messiah shall then begin to be revealed. 4 And Behemoth shall be revealed from his place and Leviathan shall ascend from the sea, those two great monsters which I created on the fifth day of creation, and shall have kept until that time; and then they shall be for food for all that are left. 5 The earth also shall yield its fruit ten thousandfold and on each (?) V 2, p 498 vine there shall be a thousand branches, and each branch shall produce a thousand clusters, and each cluster produce a thousand grapes, and each grape produce a cot of wine. 6 And those who have hungered shall rejoice: moreover, also,
            they shall
            > behold marvels every day. 7 For winds shall go forth from before Me to bring every morning the fragrance of aromatic fruits, and at the close of the day clouds distilling the dew of health. 8 And it shall come to pass at that self-same time that the treasury of manna shall again descend from on high, and they will eat of it in those years, because these are they who have come to the consummation of time.
            >  Pseudepigrapha of the Old Testament
            >  
            > It would seem to have been a general characteristic of Jewish apocalypticism.
            >  
            >  
            > george
            > gfsomsel
            >
            >
            > … search for truth, hear truth,
            > learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
            > defend the truth till death.
            >
            >
            > - Jan Hus
            > _________
            >







            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • George F Somsel
            Incidentally, perhaps I shouldn t think things are too obvious, but I was struck by the similarity between the Papias quotation and that of 2 Baruch.  george
            Message 5 of 8 , May 29, 2010
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              Incidentally, perhaps I shouldn't think things are too obvious, but I was struck by the similarity between the Papias quotation and that of 2 Baruch.

               george
              gfsomsel


              … search for truth, hear truth,
              learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
              defend the truth till death.


              - Jan Hus
              _________




              ________________________________
              From: e_s_c_h_a_t_o_n <rocsy@...>
              To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sat, May 29, 2010 11:38:07 AM
              Subject: [revelation-list] Re: Origin of Chiliasm

               


              That would be the Apocalypse of Baruch 29:1-8. I believe Jubilees precedes it by two or three hundred years.

              --- In revelation-list@yahoogroups.com, George F Somsel <gfsomsel@...> wrote:
              >
              > One must not restrict oneself to either Enoch or Jubilees for the background of chiliastic thought.  Papias was known to be a chiliast saying
              >
              > The days will come when vines will grow, each having ten thousand shoots, and on each shoot ten thousand branches, and on each branch ten thousand twigs, and on each twig ten thousand clusters, and in each cluster ten thousand grapes, and each grape when crushed will yield twenty-five measures of wine. And when one of the saints takes hold of a cluster, another cluster will cry out, "I am better, take me, bless the Lord through me." Similarly a grain of wheat will produce ten thousand heads, and every head will have ten thousand grains, and every grain ten pounds of fine flour, white and clean. And the other fruits, seeds, and grass will produce in similar proportions, and all the animals feeding on these fruits produced by the soil will in turn become peaceful and harmonious toward one another, and fully subject to man.
              >  
              > Holmes, Michael William. The Apostolic Fathers : Greek Texts and English Translations (Fragments of Papias). Updated ed. Grand Rapids, Mich.: Baker Books, 1999.
              >  
              > Compare this with
              >  291 And He answered and said unto me: ‘Whatever will then befall (will befall) the whole earth; therefore all who live will experience (them). 2 For at that time I will protect only those who are found in those self-same days in this land. 3 And it shall come to pass when all is accomplished that was to come to pass in those parts, that the Messiah shall then begin to be revealed. 4 And Behemoth shall be revealed from his place and Leviathan shall ascend from the sea, those two great monsters which I created on the fifth day of creation, and shall have kept until that time; and then they shall be for food for all that are left. 5 The earth also shall yield its fruit ten thousandfold and on each (?) V 2, p 498 vine there shall be a thousand branches, and each branch shall produce a thousand clusters, and each cluster produce a thousand grapes, and each grape produce a cot of wine. 6 And those who have hungered shall rejoice: moreover, also,
              they shall
              > behold marvels every day. 7 For winds shall go forth from before Me to bring every morning the fragrance of aromatic fruits, and at the close of the day clouds distilling the dew of health. 8 And it shall come to pass at that self-same time that the treasury of manna shall again descend from on high, and they will eat of it in those years, because these are they who have come to the consummation of time.
              >  Pseudepigrapha of the Old Testament
              >  
              > It would seem to have been a general characteristic of Jewish apocalypticism.
              >  
              >  
              > george
              > gfsomsel
              >
              >
              > … search for truth, hear truth,
              > learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
              > defend the truth till death.
              >
              >
              > - Jan Hus
              > _________
              >







              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • e_s_c_h_a_t_o_n
              And rightly so Jan! I will also mention that Jubilees chapter 23 and 1:26-29 may be associated with the temporary messianic reign. I think that might be given
              Message 6 of 8 , May 29, 2010
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                And rightly so Jan!

                I will also mention that Jubilees chapter 23 and 1:26-29 may be associated with the temporary messianic reign. I think that might be given in an article I mentioned in an earlier post.

                J. W. Bailey, "The Temporary Messianic Reign in the Literature of Early Judaism," Journal of Biblical Literature, 53,.2 (1934): 170-187

                What is interesting to me is that Justin relates the life of Adam to a millennial reign, while Irenaeus thinks of it in terms of the life of Christ. That reminds me of Papias' assertion that the earliest expositors in Alexandria agreed that the creation week was an allegory of the life of Christ. That is the structure I see in Revelation, and the argument I put forward in my book.

                Alan Fuller
                http://www.lulu.com/arfuller

                --- In revelation-list@yahoogroups.com, George F Somsel <gfsomsel@...> wrote:
                >
                > Incidentally, perhaps I shouldn't think things are too obvious, but I was struck by the similarity between the Papias quotation and that of 2 Baruch.
                >
                >  george
                > gfsomsel
                >
                >
                > … search for truth, hear truth,
                > learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
                > defend the truth till death.
                >
                >
                > - Jan Hus
                > _________
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • George F Somsel
                Of course, ultimately the concept of chiliasm goes back to the world week in which the world is to last 7 days of 1000 years each.  george gfsomsel …
                Message 7 of 8 , May 29, 2010
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                  Of course, ultimately the concept of chiliasm goes back to the "world week" in which the world is to last 7 days of 1000 years each.
                   george
                  gfsomsel


                  … search for truth, hear truth,
                  learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
                  defend the truth till death.


                  - Jan Hus
                  _________




                  ________________________________
                  From: e_s_c_h_a_t_o_n <rocsy@...>
                  To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Sat, May 29, 2010 12:38:37 PM
                  Subject: [revelation-list] Re: Origin of Chiliasm

                   


                  And rightly so Jan!

                  I will also mention that Jubilees chapter 23 and 1:26-29 may be associated with the temporary messianic reign. I think that might be given in an article I mentioned in an earlier post.

                  J. W. Bailey, "The Temporary Messianic Reign in the Literature of Early Judaism," Journal of Biblical Literature, 53,.2 (1934): 170-187

                  What is interesting to me is that Justin relates the life of Adam to a millennial reign, while Irenaeus thinks of it in terms of the life of Christ. That reminds me of Papias' assertion that the earliest expositors in Alexandria agreed that the creation week was an allegory of the life of Christ. That is the structure I see in Revelation, and the argument I put forward in my book.

                  Alan Fuller
                  http://www.lulu.com/arfuller

                  --- In revelation-list@yahoogroups.com, George F Somsel <gfsomsel@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Incidentally, perhaps I shouldn't think things are too obvious, but I was struck by the similarity between the Papias quotation and that of 2 Baruch.
                  >
                  >  george
                  > gfsomsel
                  >
                  >
                  > … search for truth, hear truth,
                  > learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
                  > defend the truth till death.
                  >
                  >
                  > - Jan Hus
                  > _________
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >







                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Jon Newton
                  I m not sure it s as obvious as that Looking at Jewish writings pre-Revelation, the world week is one strand but the idea of a preliminary reign of messiah
                  Message 8 of 8 , May 29, 2010
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                    I'm not sure it's as "obvious" as that

                    Looking at Jewish writings pre-Revelation, the world week is one strand but the idea of a preliminary reign of messiah before the final end and the theme in Jubilees of 1000 years as a human lifespan are all feeding into it

                    (Pastor) Jon Newton


                    --- On Sun, 30/5/10, George F Somsel <gfsomsel@...> wrote:

                    From: George F Somsel <gfsomsel@...>
                    Subject: Re: [revelation-list] Re: Origin of Chiliasm
                    To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
                    Received: Sunday, 30 May, 2010, 8:17 AM







                     









                    Of course, ultimately the concept of chiliasm goes back to the "world week" in which the world is to last 7 days of 1000 years each.

                     george

                    gfsomsel



                    … search for truth, hear truth,

                    learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,

                    defend the truth till death.



                    - Jan Hus

                    _________



                    ________________________________

                    From: e_s_c_h_a_t_o_n <rocsy@...>

                    To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com

                    Sent: Sat, May 29, 2010 12:38:37 PM

                    Subject: [revelation-list] Re: Origin of Chiliasm



                     



                    And rightly so Jan!



                    I will also mention that Jubilees chapter 23 and 1:26-29 may be associated with the temporary messianic reign. I think that might be given in an article I mentioned in an earlier post.



                    J. W. Bailey, "The Temporary Messianic Reign in the Literature of Early Judaism," Journal of Biblical Literature, 53,.2 (1934): 170-187



                    What is interesting to me is that Justin relates the life of Adam to a millennial reign, while Irenaeus thinks of it in terms of the life of Christ. That reminds me of Papias' assertion that the earliest expositors in Alexandria agreed that the creation week was an allegory of the life of Christ. That is the structure I see in Revelation, and the argument I put forward in my book.



                    Alan Fuller

                    http://www.lulu.com/arfuller



                    --- In revelation-list@yahoogroups.com, George F Somsel <gfsomsel@...> wrote:

                    >

                    > Incidentally, perhaps I shouldn't think things are too obvious, but I was struck by the similarity between the Papias quotation and that of 2 Baruch.

                    >

                    >  george

                    > gfsomsel

                    >

                    >

                    > … search for truth, hear truth,

                    > learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,

                    > defend the truth till death.

                    >

                    >

                    > - Jan Hus

                    > _________

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

























                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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