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Re: [revelation-list] Re: Andrew of Caesarea and the Apocalypse

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  • George F Somsel
     Papias was the bishop of Hierapolis, a city in Asia Minor near Laodicea and Colossae. His   I seriously doubt that Papias chiliasm was based on
    Message 1 of 7 , Apr 10, 2010
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       Papias was the bishop of Hierapolis, a city in Asia Minor near Laodicea and Colossae. His
       
      I seriously doubt that Papias' chiliasm was based on Revelation.  It seems rather to be based on some Jewish writings.  I defy you to find anything related to what he says regarding the (supposed) millenial kingdom:
       
       "The blessing thus foretold undoubtedly belongs to the times of the kingdom, when the righteous will rise from the dead and reign, when creation, too, renewed and freed from bondage, will produce an abundance of food of all kinds "from the dew of heaven and from the fertility of the earth," just as the elders, who saw John the disciple of the Lord, recalled having heard from him how the Lord used to teach about those times and say:
       
      "'The days will come when vines will grow, each having ten thousand shoots, and on each shoot ten thousand branches, and on each branch ten thousand twigs, and on each twig ten thousand clusters, and in each cluster ten thousand grapes, and each grape when crushed will yield twenty-five measures of wine. And when one of the saints takes hold of a cluster, another cluster will cry out, "I am better, take me, bless the Lord through me." Similarly a grain of wheat will produce ten thousand heads, and every head will have ten thousand grains, and every grain ten pounds of fine flour, white and clean. And the other fruits, seeds, and grass will produce in similar proportions, and all the animals feeding on these fruits produced by the soil will in turn become peaceful and harmonious toward one another, and fully subject to man.'"Exposition of Dominical Oracles, a fïve volume treatise, was composed in the first half of the second century. Only a few fragments
      remain from this work and no fragment contains any quotations from or allusions to Révélation.183 Most of our knowledge of Papias cornes from Eusebius of Caesarea. Although Eusebius tells us that Papias was a chiliast, Eusebius gives no indication whether this belief was based on the Apocalypse of John or some other tradition. Eusebius provides no information about Papias' attitude toward or knowledge about the Apocalypse. But Andrew is a crédible source for confirming that Papias himself confirmed the apostolic authorship of Révélation. Andrew evidently had first-hand knowledge of Dominical Oracles since he quotes from Papias at a later point in the commentary.184 Hence, Andrew serves indirectly as a witness to the acceptance of Révélation as apostolic in the early second century by an Asiatic Father. george
      gfsomsel


      … search for truth, hear truth,
      learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
      defend the truth till death.


      - Jan Hus
      _________




      ________________________________
      From: e_s_c_h_a_t_o_n <rocsy@...>
      To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sat, April 10, 2010 1:33:04 PM
      Subject: [revelation-list] Re: Andrew of Caesarea and the Apocalypse

       


      Thank you. I was referring to page 53 where Constantinou says.

      "But Andrew is a credible source for confirming that Papias himself confirmed the apostolic authorship of Revelation. Andrew evidently had first-hand knowledge of "Dominical Oracles" since he quotes from Papias at a later point in the commentary. Hence Andrew serves indirectly as a witness to the acceptance of Revelation as apostolic in the early second century by an Asiatic Father."

      Philip of Side is saying some thought "another John" wrote the two later epistles, and some mistakenly thought "another John" wrote the Apocalypse. Correct?

      Alan Fuller

      http://www.lulu com/arfuller

      --- In revelation-list@ yahoogroups. com, George F Somsel <gfsomsel@.. .> wrote:
      >
      > I previously posted a larger portion of this.  It is from Philip of Side.
      > Papias, bishop of Hierapolis, who was a disciple of John the Theologian and a companion of Polycarp, wrote five books on the sayings of the Lord. In them he made a list of apostles, and after Peter and John, Philip and Thomas and Matthew, he included among disciples of the Lord Aristion and another John, whom he also called "the Elder." So, some think that this John is the author of the two short catholic epistles which circulate under the name of John, because the men of the earliest period accept only the first epistle. And some have mistakenly thought that the Apocalypse was also his. And Papias is also in error regarding the millennium, and so is Irenaeus, who follows him.
      > It hardly seems surprising that Andreas of Caesarea would hold that the Apostle John wrote the Apocalypse since Justin also held that opinion so that this tradition had arisen prior to 165 ad when Justin was Martyred.  Since Andreas wrote in the 7th cent, this hardly qualifies as weighty evidence. 
      >
      >  george
      > gfsomsel
      >
      >
      > … search for truth, hear truth,
      > learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
      > defend the truth till death.
      >
      >
      > - Jan Hus
      > _________

      >







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