Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [revelation-list] Continuity

Expand Messages
  • Georg S. Adamsen
    Dr. Somsel, I agree. Years ago when I wrote my Master s thesis, I formed the hypothesis that Rev 4-22 functioned as an argument for the exhortations in Rev
    Message 1 of 11 , Jan 13, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      Dr. Somsel,

      I agree. Years ago when I wrote my Master's thesis, I formed the hypothesis
      that Rev 4-22 functioned as an argument for the exhortations in Rev 1-3.

      Later, I read Dr. Mark W. Wilson's thesis
      (http://www.revelation-resources.com/2008/01/06/wilson-the-victor-sayings/).
      His studies confirmed what I was at.

      In my own thesis I found that both theme and pragmatic function unifies
      Revelation. OT themes such as epiphany and the divine warrior motif are used
      in both parts of Revelation.

      Other scholars (e.g., Kempson, Mazzaferri, Giblin, Bauckham) have shown that
      there is a unifying overall structure. This structure is indicated by
      external linguistic markers, such as EN PNEUMATI and the numbering
      sequences.

      There is much, much more to say, but I would say that you are certainly
      right!

      Dr. Georg S. Adamsen



      -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
      Fra: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
      [mailto:revelation-list@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af George F Somsel
      Sendt: 14. januar 2009 07:05
      Til: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
      Emne: [revelation-list] Continuity

      It has always seemed that caps 1-3 and 4-22 are two separate worlds (Of
      course, in one sense they are).  I have been wondering lately if there is
      not a closer relation between the two halves of the writing.  Does anyone
      have some thoughts they would care to share on this?
       george
      gfsomsel


      … search for truth, hear truth,
      learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
      defend the truth till death.


      - Jan Hus
      _________




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


      ------------------------------------

      Yahoo! Groups Links
    • George F Somsel
      Of course, everyone is aware of such themes as epiphany and the divine warrior motif in the Apocalypse.  What interests me more is your hypothesis that 4-22
      Message 2 of 11 , Jan 14, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        Of course, everyone is aware of such themes as epiphany and the divine warrior motif in the Apocalypse.� What interests me more is your hypothesis that�4-22 functioned as an argument for 1-3.� Have you developed that?
        �george
        gfsomsel


        � search for truth, hear truth,
        learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
        defend the truth till death.


        - Jan Hus
        _________




        ________________________________
        From: Georg S. Adamsen <georg@...>
        To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 1:23:21 AM
        Subject: Re: [revelation-list] Continuity


        Dr. Somsel,

        I agree. Years ago when I wrote my Master's thesis, I formed the hypothesis
        that Rev 4-22 functioned as an argument for the exhortations in Rev 1-3.

        Later, I read Dr. Mark W. Wilson's thesis
        (http://www.revelati on-resources. com/2008/ 01/06/wilson- the-victor- sayings/).
        His studies confirmed what I was at.

        In my own thesis I found that both theme and pragmatic function unifies
        Revelation. OT themes such as epiphany and the divine warrior motif are used
        in both parts of Revelation.

        Other scholars (e.g., Kempson, Mazzaferri, Giblin, Bauckham) have shown that
        there is a unifying overall structure. This structure is indicated by
        external linguistic markers, such as EN PNEUMATI and the numbering
        sequences.

        There is much, much more to say, but I would say that you are certainly
        right!

        Dr. Georg S. Adamsen

        -----Oprindelig meddelelse-- ---
        Fra: revelation-list@ yahoogroups. com
        [mailto:revelation-list@ yahoogroups. com] P� vegne af George F Somsel
        Sendt: 14. januar 2009 07:05
        Til: revelation-list@ yahoogroups. com
        Emne: [revelation- list] Continuity

        It has always seemed that caps 1-3 and 4-22 are two separate worlds (Of
        course, in one sense they are).� I have been wondering lately if there is
        not a closer relation between the two halves of the writing.� Does anyone
        have some thoughts they would care to share on this?
        �george
        gfsomsel

        � search for truth, hear truth,
        learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
        defend the truth till death.

        - Jan Hus
        _________
        .





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Georg S. Adamsen
        Perhaps not everyone ... Anyway, yes I have developed that hypothesis. One might argue that there is a pragmatic unity, even if this is not easily
        Message 3 of 11 , Jan 14, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          Perhaps not "everyone" ... Anyway, yes I have developed that hypothesis. One
          might argue that there is a pragmatic unity, even if this is not easily
          recognisable by structural markers and contents. However, I argue that
          structure and content does indeed support the pragmatic unity, i.e. that
          Revelation 4-22 function as an argument for the exhortations in Revelation
          1-3. Parts of my thesis is "controversial", but one of its strengths is that
          I point to themes and structures recognised by others.

          Georg

          -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
          Fra: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
          [mailto:revelation-list@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af George F Somsel
          Sendt: 14. januar 2009 11:39
          Til: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
          Emne: Re: [revelation-list] Continuity

          Of course, everyone is aware of such themes as epiphany and the divine
          warrior motif in the Apocalypse.  What interests me more is your hypothesis
          that 4-22 functioned as an argument for 1-3.  Have you developed that?
           george
          gfsomsel


          … search for truth, hear truth,
          learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
          defend the truth till death.


          - Jan Hus
          _________




          ________________________________
          From: Georg S. Adamsen <georg@...>
          To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 1:23:21 AM
          Subject: Re: [revelation-list] Continuity


          Dr. Somsel,

          I agree. Years ago when I wrote my Master's thesis, I formed the hypothesis
          that Rev 4-22 functioned as an argument for the exhortations in Rev 1-3.

          Later, I read Dr. Mark W. Wilson's thesis
          (http://www.revelati on-resources. com/2008/ 01/06/wilson- the-victor-
          sayings/).
          His studies confirmed what I was at.

          In my own thesis I found that both theme and pragmatic function unifies
          Revelation. OT themes such as epiphany and the divine warrior motif are used
          in both parts of Revelation.

          Other scholars (e.g., Kempson, Mazzaferri, Giblin, Bauckham) have shown that
          there is a unifying overall structure. This structure is indicated by
          external linguistic markers, such as EN PNEUMATI and the numbering
          sequences.

          There is much, much more to say, but I would say that you are certainly
          right!

          Dr. Georg S. Adamsen

          -----Oprindelig meddelelse-- ---
          Fra: revelation-list@ yahoogroups. com
          [mailto:revelation-list@ yahoogroups. com] På vegne af George F Somsel
          Sendt: 14. januar 2009 07:05
          Til: revelation-list@ yahoogroups. com
          Emne: [revelation- list] Continuity

          It has always seemed that caps 1-3 and 4-22 are two separate worlds (Of
          course, in one sense they are).  I have been wondering lately if there is
          not a closer relation between the two halves of the writing.  Does anyone
          have some thoughts they would care to share on this?
           george
          gfsomsel

          … search for truth, hear truth,
          learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
          defend the truth till death.

          - Jan Hus
          _________
          .





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


          ------------------------------------

          Yahoo! Groups Links
        • George F Somsel
          Are the results of your study available in written form (Perhaps your thesis which I seem to recall was submitted in English)?  I would be willing to purchase
          Message 4 of 11 , Jan 14, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            Are the results of your study available in written form (Perhaps your thesis which I seem to recall was submitted in English)?� I would be willing to purchase a copy.
            �george
            gfsomsel


            � search for truth, hear truth,
            learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
            defend the truth till death.


            - Jan Hus
            _________




            ________________________________
            From: Georg S. Adamsen <georg@...>
            To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 6:15:07 AM
            Subject: Re: [revelation-list] Continuity


            Perhaps not "everyone" ... Anyway, yes I have developed that hypothesis. One
            might argue that there is a pragmatic unity, even if this is not easily
            recognisable by structural markers and contents. However, I argue that
            structure and content does indeed support the pragmatic unity, i.e. that
            Revelation 4-22 function as an argument for the exhortations in Revelation
            1-3. Parts of my thesis is "controversial" , but one of its strengths is that
            I point to themes and structures recognised by others.

            Georg

            -----Oprindelig meddelelse-- ---
            Fra: revelation-list@ yahoogroups. com
            [mailto:revelation-list@ yahoogroups. com] P� vegne af George F Somsel
            Sendt: 14. januar 2009 11:39
            Til: revelation-list@ yahoogroups. com
            Emne: Re: [revelation- list] Continuity

            Of course, everyone is aware of such themes as epiphany and the divine
            warrior motif in the Apocalypse.� What interests me more is your hypothesis
            that�4-22 functioned as an argument for 1-3.� Have you developed that?
            �george
            gfsomsel

            � search for truth, hear truth,
            learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
            defend the truth till death.

            - Jan Hus
            _________

            ____________ _________ _________ __
            From: Georg S. Adamsen <georg@stubkjaer- adamsen.dk>
            To: revelation-list@ yahoogroups. com
            Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 1:23:21 AM
            Subject: Re: [revelation- list] Continuity

            Dr. Somsel,

            I agree. Years ago when I wrote my Master's thesis, I formed the hypothesis
            that Rev 4-22 functioned as an argument for the exhortations in Rev 1-3.

            Later, I read Dr. Mark W. Wilson's thesis
            (http://www.revelati on-resources. com/2008/ 01/06/wilson- the-victor-
            sayings/).
            His studies confirmed what I was at.

            In my own thesis I found that both theme and pragmatic function unifies
            Revelation. OT themes such as epiphany and the divine warrior motif are used
            in both parts of Revelation.

            Other scholars (e.g., Kempson, Mazzaferri, Giblin, Bauckham) have shown that
            there is a unifying overall structure. This structure is indicated by
            external linguistic markers, such as EN PNEUMATI and the numbering
            sequences.

            There is much, much more to say, but I would say that you are certainly
            right!

            Dr. Georg S. Adamsen

            -----Oprindelig meddelelse-- ---
            Fra: revelation-list@ yahoogroups. com
            [mailto:revelation- list@ yahoogroups. com] P� vegne af George F Somsel
            Sendt: 14. januar 2009 07:05
            Til: revelation-list@ yahoogroups. com
            Emne: [revelation- list] Continuity

            It has always seemed that caps 1-3 and 4-22 are two separate worlds (Of
            course, in one sense they are).� I have been wondering lately if there is
            not a closer relation between the two halves of the writing.� Does anyone
            have some thoughts they would care to share on this?
            �george
            gfsomsel

            � search for truth, hear truth,
            learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
            defend the truth till death.

            - Jan Hus
            _________
            .
            .





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Georg S. Adamsen
            My thesis is available from a number of European libraries. It may or may not be available from U.S. libraries as well. I do think that I still have one or two
            Message 5 of 11 , Jan 14, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              My thesis is available from a number of European libraries. It may or may
              not be available from U.S. libraries as well. I do think that I still have
              one or two copies left, but, unfortunately, it is extremely expensive to
              send it to the U.S. I will take a look as to whether it is possible to make
              a PDF-version of it. PDF-technology has advanced since 2002, I guess.

              Georg

              -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
              Fra: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
              [mailto:revelation-list@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af George F Somsel
              Sendt: 14. januar 2009 12:24
              Til: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
              Emne: Re: [revelation-list] Continuity

              Are the results of your study available in written form (Perhaps your thesis
              which I seem to recall was submitted in English)?  I would be willing to
              purchase a copy.
               george
              gfsomsel


              … search for truth, hear truth,
              learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
              defend the truth till death.


              - Jan Hus
              _________




              ________________________________
              From: Georg S. Adamsen <georg@...>
              To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 6:15:07 AM
              Subject: Re: [revelation-list] Continuity


              Perhaps not "everyone" ... Anyway, yes I have developed that hypothesis. One
              might argue that there is a pragmatic unity, even if this is not easily
              recognisable by structural markers and contents. However, I argue that
              structure and content does indeed support the pragmatic unity, i.e. that
              Revelation 4-22 function as an argument for the exhortations in Revelation
              1-3. Parts of my thesis is "controversial" , but one of its strengths is
              that
              I point to themes and structures recognised by others.

              Georg

              -----Oprindelig meddelelse-- ---
              Fra: revelation-list@ yahoogroups. com
              [mailto:revelation-list@ yahoogroups. com] På vegne af George F Somsel
              Sendt: 14. januar 2009 11:39
              Til: revelation-list@ yahoogroups. com
              Emne: Re: [revelation- list] Continuity

              Of course, everyone is aware of such themes as epiphany and the divine
              warrior motif in the Apocalypse.  What interests me more is your hypothesis
              that 4-22 functioned as an argument for 1-3.  Have you developed that?
               george
              gfsomsel

              … search for truth, hear truth,
              learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
              defend the truth till death.

              - Jan Hus
              _________

              ____________ _________ _________ __
              From: Georg S. Adamsen <georg@stubkjaer- adamsen.dk>
              To: revelation-list@ yahoogroups. com
              Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 1:23:21 AM
              Subject: Re: [revelation- list] Continuity

              Dr. Somsel,

              I agree. Years ago when I wrote my Master's thesis, I formed the hypothesis
              that Rev 4-22 functioned as an argument for the exhortations in Rev 1-3.

              Later, I read Dr. Mark W. Wilson's thesis
              (http://www.revelati on-resources. com/2008/ 01/06/wilson- the-victor-
              sayings/).
              His studies confirmed what I was at.

              In my own thesis I found that both theme and pragmatic function unifies
              Revelation. OT themes such as epiphany and the divine warrior motif are used
              in both parts of Revelation.

              Other scholars (e.g., Kempson, Mazzaferri, Giblin, Bauckham) have shown that
              there is a unifying overall structure. This structure is indicated by
              external linguistic markers, such as EN PNEUMATI and the numbering
              sequences.

              There is much, much more to say, but I would say that you are certainly
              right!

              Dr. Georg S. Adamsen

              -----Oprindelig meddelelse-- ---
              Fra: revelation-list@ yahoogroups. com
              [mailto:revelation- list@ yahoogroups. com] På vegne af George F Somsel
              Sendt: 14. januar 2009 07:05
              Til: revelation-list@ yahoogroups. com
              Emne: [revelation- list] Continuity

              It has always seemed that caps 1-3 and 4-22 are two separate worlds (Of
              course, in one sense they are).  I have been wondering lately if there is
              not a closer relation between the two halves of the writing.  Does anyone
              have some thoughts they would care to share on this?
               george
              gfsomsel

              … search for truth, hear truth,
              learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
              defend the truth till death.

              - Jan Hus
              _________
              .
              .





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


              ------------------------------------

              Yahoo! Groups Links
            • George F Somsel
              Thank you, I would appreciate it very much.  george gfsomsel … search for truth, hear truth, learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
              Message 6 of 11 , Jan 14, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                Thank you, I would appreciate it very much.
                �george
                gfsomsel


                � search for truth, hear truth,
                learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
                defend the truth till death.


                - Jan Hus
                _________




                ________________________________
                From: Georg S. Adamsen <georg@...>
                To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 6:34:43 AM
                Subject: Re: [revelation-list] Continuity


                My thesis is available from a number of European libraries. It may or may
                not be available from U.S. libraries as well. I do think that I still have
                one or two copies left, but, unfortunately, it is extremely expensive to
                send it to the U.S. I will take a look as to whether it is possible to make
                a PDF-version of it. PDF-technology has advanced since 2002, I guess.

                Georg

                -----Oprindelig meddelelse-- ---
                Fra: revelation-list@ yahoogroups. com
                [mailto:revelation-list@ yahoogroups. com] P� vegne af George F Somsel
                Sendt: 14. januar 2009 12:24
                Til: revelation-list@ yahoogroups. com
                Emne: Re: [revelation- list] Continuity

                Are the results of your study available in written form (Perhaps your thesis
                which I seem to recall was submitted in English)?� I would be willing to
                purchase a copy.
                �george
                gfsomsel

                � search for truth, hear truth,
                learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
                defend the truth till death.

                - Jan Hus
                _________

                ____________ _________ _________ __
                From: Georg S. Adamsen <georg@stubkjaer- adamsen.dk>
                To: revelation-list@ yahoogroups. com
                Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 6:15:07 AM
                Subject: Re: [revelation- list] Continuity

                Perhaps not "everyone" ... Anyway, yes I have developed that hypothesis. One
                might argue that there is a pragmatic unity, even if this is not easily
                recognisable by structural markers and contents. However, I argue that
                structure and content does indeed support the pragmatic unity, i.e. that
                Revelation 4-22 function as an argument for the exhortations in Revelation
                1-3. Parts of my thesis is "controversial" , but one of its strengths is
                that
                I point to themes and structures recognised by others.

                Georg

                -----Oprindelig meddelelse-- ---
                Fra: revelation-list@ yahoogroups. com
                [mailto:revelation- list@ yahoogroups. com] P� vegne af George F Somsel
                Sendt: 14. januar 2009 11:39
                Til: revelation-list@ yahoogroups. com
                Emne: Re: [revelation- list] Continuity

                Of course, everyone is aware of such themes as epiphany and the divine
                warrior motif in the Apocalypse.� What interests me more is your hypothesis
                that�4-22 functioned as an argument for 1-3.� Have you developed that?
                �george
                gfsomsel

                � search for truth, hear truth,
                learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
                defend the truth till death.

                - Jan Hus
                _________

                ____________ _________ _________ __
                From: Georg S. Adamsen <georg@stubkjaer- adamsen.dk>
                To: revelation-list@ yahoogroups. com
                Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 1:23:21 AM
                Subject: Re: [revelation- list] Continuity

                Dr. Somsel,

                I agree. Years ago when I wrote my Master's thesis, I formed the hypothesis
                that Rev 4-22 functioned as an argument for the exhortations in Rev 1-3.

                Later, I read Dr. Mark W. Wilson's thesis
                (http://www.revelati on-resources. com/2008/ 01/06/wilson- the-victor-
                sayings/).
                His studies confirmed what I was at.

                In my own thesis I found that both theme and pragmatic function unifies
                Revelation. OT themes such as epiphany and the divine warrior motif are used
                in both parts of Revelation.

                Other scholars (e.g., Kempson, Mazzaferri, Giblin, Bauckham) have shown that
                there is a unifying overall structure. This structure is indicated by
                external linguistic markers, such as EN PNEUMATI and the numbering
                sequences.

                There is much, much more to say, but I would say that you are certainly
                right!

                Dr. Georg S. Adamsen

                -----Oprindelig meddelelse-- ---
                Fra: revelation-list@ yahoogroups. com
                [mailto:revelation- list@ yahoogroups. com] P� vegne af George F Somsel
                Sendt: 14. januar 2009 07:05
                Til: revelation-list@ yahoogroups. com
                Emne: [revelation- list] Continuity

                It has always seemed that caps 1-3 and 4-22 are two separate worlds (Of
                course, in one sense they are).� I have been wondering lately if there is
                not a closer relation between the two halves of the writing.� Does anyone
                have some thoughts they would care to share on this?
                �george
                gfsomsel

                � search for truth, hear truth,
                learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
                defend the truth till death.

                - Jan Hus
                _________
                .





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Edmond Long
                I have wondered about the significance of 1.3 and 22.7, the hearing and heeding blessings. Between 4.1 and 22.6, little if anything needs to be heeded, in the
                Message 7 of 11 , Jan 14, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  I have wondered about the significance of 1.3 and 22.7, the hearing
                  and heeding blessings. Between 4.1 and 22.6, little if anything needs
                  to be heeded, in the sense of obeying. Seemingly, chaps. 4-22 have an
                  entirely different purpose than 1-3, and 22.7-21. The only "commmands"
                  in the Apocalypse are found in the beginning and ending of the book.
                  Am I on the right track?
                • Ian R. Brown
                  I would recommend looking at G. K. Beale s extensive commentary. He deals with the matter briefly in his introduction, then in the introduction to the
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jan 14, 2009
                  • 0 Attachment
                    I would recommend looking at G. K. Beale's extensive commentary. He deals
                    with the matter briefly in his introduction, then in the introduction to the
                    letters, and then periodically throughout the commentary. He offers several
                    reasons for linking the letters to the visions.

                    Ian R. Brown

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
                    [mailto:revelation-list@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of George F Somsel
                    Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 1:05 AM
                    To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [revelation-list] Continuity

                    It has always seemed that caps 1-3 and 4-22 are two separate worlds (Of
                    course, in one sense they are).  I have been wondering lately if there is
                    not a closer relation between the two halves of the writing.  Does anyone
                    have some thoughts they would care to share on this?
                     george
                    gfsomsel


                    … search for truth, hear truth,
                    learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
                    defend the truth till death.


                    - Jan Hus
                    _________




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


                    ------------------------------------

                    Yahoo! Groups Links
                  • Ian R. Brown
                    I would argue that what needs heeding in 4:1-22:6 is more implied than direct; for example, the implied command to avoid idolatry. Something more direct would
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jan 14, 2009
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I would argue that what needs heeding in 4:1-22:6 is more implied than
                      direct; for example, the implied command to avoid idolatry. Something more
                      direct would be 13:10, 18; 14:12; 17:9.

                      Ian R. Brown

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
                      [mailto:revelation-list@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Edmond Long
                      Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 6:53 AM
                      To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [revelation-list] Re: Continuity

                      I have wondered about the significance of 1.3 and 22.7, the hearing
                      and heeding blessings. Between 4.1 and 22.6, little if anything needs
                      to be heeded, in the sense of obeying. Seemingly, chaps. 4-22 have an
                      entirely different purpose than 1-3, and 22.7-21. The only "commmands"
                      in the Apocalypse are found in the beginning and ending of the book.
                      Am I on the right track?


                      ------------------------------------

                      Yahoo! Groups Links
                    • Edmond Long
                      Do we take the term heed, (tereo typically means to obey) to mean pay attention to, or to obey ? I am not certain of the presence implied commands in the
                      Message 10 of 11 , Jan 14, 2009
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Do we take the term "heed," (tereo typically means to obey) to mean
                        "pay attention to," or "to obey"? I am not certain of the presence
                        implied commands in the 4-22 sections. If they are present, though,
                        they are subsidiary to the overtly stated commands in the 1-3 and
                        22.7f sections. The letters in 2-3, on the other hand, are filled with
                        commands. Again, the question is how do chaps. 4-22 relate to chaps.
                        2-3 in particular?
                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.