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797RE: [revelation-list] Second death

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  • Bob MacDonald
    Nov 11, 2005
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      Thanks Kenneth

      your answer is traditional, perhaps however, making a unity
      out in a way that what was not so intended by the
      author(s). Not that there is disunity but perhaps a
      differing coherence than the traditional.

      Not exactly out of line with your traditional thought
      process, I want to suggest that the first death is baptism -
      a death in the death of Christ. The second death is then
      physical death - the consequence of observable first birth.

      Whatever the ancients believed about 'life after death' is
      then not required as part of our speculation. After the
      first death, they claim they have a taste of the presence of
      God by the Holy Spirit. Whoever overcomes then is not
      afraid of the second death because the overcomer knows the
      eternal fire is love not judgment. The image of fire is
      consistently one of these two in the Scripture, particularly
      the fire of the Spirit. Consider the use of seraphim in the
      fiery serpents, Isaiah 6, and the referent in John 3 just as
      a start.

      This thesis needs more exegetical and historical critical
      and linguistic support in order to get inside the mind of
      the first century writers. I do not find the traditional
      interpretation a helpful start. It seems to me to be an
      accretion of theology and imagined cosmology.


      Bob MacDonald
      Victoria, B.C., Canada

      Catch the foxes for us,
      the little foxes that make havoc of the vineyards,
      for our vineyards are in flower. (Song 2.15)

      -----Original Message-----
      From: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
      [mailto:revelation-list@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
      Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 5:01 AM
      To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [revelation-list] Second death

      In a message dated 11/11/2005 2:15:28 AM Eastern Standard
      bobmacdonald@... writes:

      > to the author of Revelation, what death is first?

      I believe John the Apostle wrote both Revelation and the
      Gospel. I suspect
      John 5:24-29 is the backdrop for the imagery of Revelation
      20. The first death
      is spiritual death into which we are born. The second death
      is eternal
      punishment into which those who do not turn to Christ

      This would fit with the Pauline conception, as well:
      Ephesians 2:1, 5 speaks
      of the original spiritual death overcome by the new
      spiritual life -- which is
      entered into by a spiritual resurrection (Eph. 2:6).

      The first death / second death parallel in some respects the
      "born again"
      concept that appears in John 3. In that case, however, the
      first birth is the
      physical birth, the new or second (born again) experience is
      the spiritual birth
      by the grace of God (cp. also John 1:12-13.

      Kenneth L. Gentry, Jr., M.Div, Th.M., Th.D
      "Serious Studies for Serious Christians"

      Chancellor and Research Professor in Theology
      Christ College, Lynchburg, Virginia

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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