1189Re: [revelation-list] Re: Hermas and the Tribulation Beast
- Jan 17, 2011No, you are not attempting to understand these things as the early christians
did. The view of Hermas regarding the beast is not that of the Apocalypse
concerning the Beast. I have indicated that such is the case by highlighting
points at which they diverge. Your continued attempt to impose Hermas on the
Apocalypse will not survive scrutiny.
… search for truth, hear truth,
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
defend the truth till death.
- Jan Hus
From: e_s_c_h_a_t_o_n <rocsy@...>
Sent: Mon, January 17, 2011 8:34:45 AM
Subject: [revelation-list] Re: Hermas and the Tribulation Beast
Very good. I understand these are modern objections, but I am trying to
understand these things as the early Christians did. Please read this second
century document very carefully.
>>The Epistle of Mathetes to Diognetus, Chapter XII.—The importance of knowledgeWhen you have read and carefully listened to these things, you shall know what
>>to true spiritual life.
God bestows on such as rightly love Him, being made [as ye are] a paradise of
delight, presenting in yourselves a tree bearing all kinds of produce and
flourishing well, being adorned with various fruits. For in this place the tree
of knowledge and the tree of life have been planted; but it is not the tree of
knowledge that destroys— it is disobedience that proves destructive. Nor truly
are those words without significance which are written, how God from the
beginning planted the tree of life in the midst of paradise, revealing through
knowledge the way to life, and when those who were first formed did not use this
[knowledge] properly, they were, through the fraud of the Serpent, stripped
naked. For neither can life exist without knowledge, nor is knowledge secure
without life. Wherefore both were planted close together. The Apostle,
perceiving the force [of this conjunction], and blaming that knowledge which,
without true doctrine, is admitted to influence life, [1 Cor. 8:1.] declares,
"Knowledge puffeth up, but love edifieth." For he who thinks he knows anything
without true knowledge, and such as is witnessed to by life, knows nothing, but
is deceived by the Serpent, as not loving life. But he who combines knowledge
with fear, and seeks after life, plants in hope, looking for fruit. Let your
heart be your wisdom; and let your life be true knowledge inwardly received.
Bearing this tree and displaying its fruit, thou shalt always gather in those
things which are desired by God, which the Serpent cannot reach, and to which
deception does not approach; nor is Eve then corrupted, but is trusted as a
virgin; and salvation is manifested, and the Apostles are filled with
understanding, and the Passover [Rev. 5:9., Rev. 19:7., Rev. 20:5.] of the Lord
advances, and the choirs [1 Pet. 5:3], are gathered together, and are arranged
in proper order, and the Word rejoices in teaching the saints,—by whom the
Father is glorified: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.<<
Here are some second century comments showing how the early Christians viewed
antichrist and the Apocalypse.
>>If any one have ears, let him hear. If any one shall lead into captivity, heIrenaeus, Book V, Chapter XXVIII
>>shall go into captivity [Rev 13:10]. If any shall slay with the sword, he must
>>be slain with the sword. Here is the endurance and the faith of the saints."
>>[Rev. 13:2, etc.] After this he likewise describes his armour-bearer, whom he
>>also terms a false prophet: "He spake as a dragon, and exercised all the power
>>of the first beast in his sight, and caused the earth, and those that dwell
>>therein, to adore the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. And he shall
>>perform great wonders, so that he can even cause fire to descend from heaven
>>upon the earth in the sight of men, and he shall lead the inhabitants of the
4. But he indicates the number of the name now, that when this man comes we may
avoid him, being aware who he is: the name, however, is suppressed, because it
is not worthy of being proclaimed by the Holy Spirit. For if it had been
declared by Him, he (Antichrist) might perhaps continue for a long period. But
now as "he was, and is not, and shall ascend out of the abyss [Rev 9:2, 20:1] ,
and goes into perdition," [Rev. 17:8] as one who has no existence; so neither
has his name been declared, for the name of that which does not exist is not
proclaimed. But when this Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this
world, he will reign for three years and six months, and sit in the temple at
Jerusalem; and then the Lord will come from heaven in the clouds, in the glory
of the Father, sending this man and those who follow him into the lake of fire;
but bringing in for the righteous the times of the kingdom, that is, the rest,
the hallowed seventh day; and restoring to Abraham the promised inheritance, in
which kingdom the Lord declared, that "many coming from the east and from the
west should sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
Irenaeus, Book V, Chapter XXX.
3. If any one, again, will look into Jacob's actions, he shall find them not
destitute of meaning, but full of import with regard to the dispensations. Thus,
in the first place, at his birth, since he laid hold on his brother's heel,
[Gen. 25:26]. he was called Jacob, that is, the supplanter—one who holds, but is
not held; binding the feet, but not being bound; striving and conquering;
grasping in his hand his adversary's heel, that is, victory. For to this end was
the Lord born, the type of whose birth he set forth beforehand, of whom also
John says in the Apocalypse: "He went forth conquering, that He should conquer."
Irenaeus, Book IV, Chapter XXI.<<
The ancients saw order and meaning in the universe, and expected the same things
--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, George F Somsel <gfsomsel@...> wrote:
> I hardly think that Hermas' beast is the least bit comparable to that of
> Revelation.Â In Revelation a counter-Judaism is established and penalties are
> imposed for non-conformance.Â In Hermas the beast does not opposeÂ Hermas, but
> simply turns into a pussy-cat.
> And I went on a lit
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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