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1062Re: [revelation-list] Re: Rev 2-3 and Rev 4ff

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  • biblestudy
    Feb 9, 2009
      I agree. Or even of Hebrews.
      John B

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: George F Somsel
      To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 12:31 PM
      Subject: Re: [revelation-list] Re: Rev 2-3 and Rev 4ff

      I hardly think that the author of the Epistle of James or that of First Peter were writing to Israelites

      1James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ,
      To the twelve tribes in the Dispersion:

      The Holy Bible : New Revised Standard Version. 1989 (Jas 1:1). Nashville: Thomas Nelson Publishers.

      1Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,
      To the exiles of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2 who have been chosen and destined by God the Father and sanctified by the Spirit to be obedient to Jesus Christ and to be sprinkled with his blood:
      May grace and peace be yours in abundance.

      The Holy Bible : New Revised Standard Version. 1989 (1 Pe 1:1-2). Nashville: Thomas Nelson Publishers.

      Also note that the author of the Apocalypse speaks regarding the Jews in 3.9 as "I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say that they are Jews and are not, but are lying." The 144,000 of chapter 7 are said to have "his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads" (14.1) and "they sing the song of Moses, the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb." Thus it would appear that the OT saints and the Church together form the People of God.

      … search for truth, hear truth,
      learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
      defend the truth till death.

      - Jan Hus

      From: drjenney2 <drjenney@...>
      To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sunday, February 8, 2009 5:56:08 PM
      Subject: [revelation-list] Re: Rev 2-3 and Rev 4ff

      I think you have made some good points here, but you are being too
      wooden with your approach.

      The fact that the New Jerusalem has twelve gates need not mean that
      one must be an Israelite to enter, only that Israel has provided the
      entry [through its Messiah].

      Then again, while 12 often carries the idea of completeness, it need
      not always refer to the twelve tribes (="all Israel). The New
      Jerusalem is probably a cube because the Holy of Holies was a cube.
      That its sides are 12 units long may simply mean it that it is
      "perfectly holy."

      I'm personally convinced the Great Whore in Revelation is Rome. It's
      "secret name" came from the letters of its "Roma" reversed: "Amore."
      Yet it represents not romantic love, but unrestrained lust.

      I could go on, but I hope you get the idea.

      Yes, there are symbols in Revelation. It requires as much art in its
      interpretation as it does correct exegetical technique. Both must vary
      with the various literary genres contained in Revelation, for the book
      is not all of a single genre.

      Hope this helps!

      "Dr. J"
      Timothy P. Jenney, Ph. D.
      Regent Unversity

      --- In revelation-list@ yahoogroups. com, "biblestudy" <biblestudy@ ...>
      > Can't see it myself. It is clear that "Israel", the idea of "12
      Tribes" "temple" "Jerusalem" are all symbolic in places in Revelation.
      Exegetical integrity would demand that one follow through interpreting
      all references in a symbolic way. It seems to me to be a strange
      exegetical model that would say some references are symbolic and some
      literal. This would open the door again to the Pretribulation school
      methodology which does just that.
      > For example:
      > 12 tribes is clearly meant to be symbolical in Rev 21,22 - the 12
      gates. What it is saying is that to get into the city one has to be a
      member of one of the 12 tribes. But the city is clearly the bride of
      Christ, the church, made up of people of every nation, not just
      > That "Tribes" is symbolical elsewhere in Revelation is shown by the
      fact that the new Jerusalem is represented as a cube, thus having 12
      edges, or outside perimeters, each one measuring 12,000 stadia. Hence
      a total external measurement of 144,000, the same number as we find in
      Rev 7 and 14 concerning the "12 tribes". Again "144,000 Israelites" is
      clearly intended to be symbolic.
      > Same thing happens with "temple" whichis clearly are ference to the
      church in Rev 3 "make him a pillar in the temple..." It seems strange
      exegesis to then make "temple" literal in Chapter 11.
      > As for the harlot being Jerusalem - or even Rome - I admit the
      harlot system was alive and well in those cities at the time of Christ
      but to limit it to those literal cities would be a great mistake. The
      Harlot system is with us all the time. It is called Babylon because it
      began in Babel. But it rules over "7 mountains" which is a typical OT
      symbol for "empire", and "7" means "totality" i.e. over all the
      gentile empires. The harlot system is thus a Gentile system, not as
      Jewish one.
      > If we don't use the clues to symbolism John provides us with then we
      are just guessing out of our own minds.
      > Yours
      > John B

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