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Re: [rest-discuss] initial draft of "URI Template Descriptions"

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  • Nicholas Shanks
    I think URI templating is detrimental to the web and should not receive any standards body endorsement. Can you present a use case which cannot be solved by
    Message 1 of 8 , Dec 8, 2012
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      I think URI templating is detrimental to the web and should not receive any standards body endorsement. Can you present a use case which cannot be solved by lists of URIs and forms?

      — Nicholas.

      On 7 Dec 2012, at 20:45, Erik Wilde <dret@...> wrote:

       

      hello all.

      i just sumbitted an initial draft of "URI Template Descriptions" as
      draft-wilde-template-desc-00. however, it seems that there currently is
      a bit of delay before submissions become actually visible, so in the
      meantime i'd like to announce the draft on this list, and start
      gathering feedback. i'll send a brief note once the draft is available
      through the official IETF channels.

      all of this is still work in progress, but i thought it would be great
      to get community feedback early on. at
      https://github.com/dret/I-D/tree/master/template-desc you can find the
      document sources, as well as a schema (yes, it's XSD) td-00.xsd and a
      simple sample description document td-paging-00.xml. since this is meant
      to be for describing and documentation, td-00.xslt is a simple XSLT that
      can be used to generate a simple HTML version of the description.
      td-paging-00.xml links to this stylesheet, and XSLT-capable browsers
      will render the HTML client-side. but you can also simply look at
      td-paging-00.html for the static HTML version.

      for now, i'd be interested in feedback about the idea as a whole, as
      well as about features/capabilities you'd like to see added, if you are
      considering this to be something that could be useful for you.
      implementation-wise, i'd like to add URI Template support to the code
      (but then it needs to be XSLT 2.0 and stops working client-side), so
      that it would be possible to parse the URI Template, and match variables
      in it against variables in the description.

      thanks and cheers,

      dret.

      --
      erik wilde | mailto:dret@... - tel:+1-510-2061079 |
      | UC Berkeley - School of Information (ISchool) |
      | http://dret.net/netdret http://twitter.com/dret |

    • Philippe Mougin
      I use URI templates as a component of my hypermedia controls. They let me dynamically communicate to clients how to build certain URIs. They are more powerful
      Message 2 of 8 , Dec 8, 2012
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        I use URI templates as a component of my hypermedia controls. They let me dynamically communicate to clients how to build certain URIs. They are more powerful than mere URI lists, which are limited in the number of URIs you can communicate, and HTML forms, which can only express a more limited set of URIs (i.e., the variable part has to use query parameters).

        Here is such a use case of URI template : http://example.com/stockquote/{symbol}  

        Philippe

        Le 8 déc. 2012 à 09:53, Nicholas Shanks <nickshanks@...> a écrit :

         

        I think URI templating is detrimental to the web and should not receive any standards body endorsement. Can you present a use case which cannot be solved by lists of URIs and forms?

        — Nicholas.

        On 7 Dec 2012, at 20:45, Erik Wilde <dret@...> wrote:

         

        hello all.

        i just sumbitted an initial draft of "URI Template Descriptions" as
        draft-wilde-template-desc-00. however, it seems that there currently is
        a bit of delay before submissions become actually visible, so in the
        meantime i'd like to announce the draft on this list, and start
        gathering feedback. i'll send a brief note once the draft is available
        through the official IETF channels.

        all of this is still work in progress, but i thought it would be great
        to get community feedback early on. at
        https://github.com/dret/I-D/tree/master/template-desc you can find the
        document sources, as well as a schema (yes, it's XSD) td-00.xsd and a
        simple sample description document td-paging-00.xml. since this is meant
        to be for describing and documentation, td-00.xslt is a simple XSLT that
        can be used to generate a simple HTML version of the description.
        td-paging-00.xml links to this stylesheet, and XSLT-capable browsers
        will render the HTML client-side. but you can also simply look at
        td-paging-00.html for the static HTML version.

        for now, i'd be interested in feedback about the idea as a whole, as
        well as about features/capabilities you'd like to see added, if you are
        considering this to be something that could be useful for you.
        implementation-wise, i'd like to add URI Template support to the code
        (but then it needs to be XSLT 2.0 and stops working client-side), so
        that it would be possible to parse the URI Template, and match variables
        in it against variables in the description.

        thanks and cheers,

        dret.

        --
        erik wilde | mailto:dret@... - tel:+1-510-2061079 |
        | UC Berkeley - School of Information (ISchool) |
        | http://dret.net/netdret http://twitter.com/dret |



      • Mike Kelly
        ... Be useful if you explained why you think that. (you re probably wrong, by the way) Cheers, M
        Message 3 of 8 , Dec 8, 2012
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          On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 8:53 AM, Nicholas Shanks <nickshanks@...> wrote:
           

          I think URI templating is detrimental to the web and should not receive any standards body endorsement. Can you present a use case which cannot be solved by lists of URIs and forms?


          Be useful if you explained why you think that.

          (you're probably wrong, by the way)

          Cheers,
        • Erik Wilde
          hello nicholas. ... you are aware of RFC 6570, right? cheers, dret.
          Message 4 of 8 , Dec 8, 2012
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            hello nicholas.

            On Dec 8, 2012, at 0:53, Nicholas Shanks <nickshanks@...> wrote:
            > I think URI templating is detrimental to the web and should not receive any standards body endorsement. Can you present a use case which cannot be solved by lists of URIs and forms?

            you are aware of RFC 6570, right?

            cheers,

            dret.
          • Cíat Ó Gáibhtheacháin
            You realise that URI templates and forms are, more-or-less, the same kind of thing, albeit with the former being more flexible in kinds of URI it can generate
            Message 5 of 8 , Dec 8, 2012
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              You realise that URI templates and forms are, more-or-less, the same kind of thing, albeit with the former being more flexible in kinds of URI it can generate than the latter?

              Nicholas Shanks <nickshanks@...> wrote:

               

              I think URI templating is detrimental to the web and should not receive any standards body endorsement. Can you present a use case which cannot be solved by lists of URIs and forms?

              — Nicholas.

              On 7 Dec 2012, at 20:45, Erik Wilde <dret@...> wrote:

               

              hello all.

              i just sumbitted an initial draft of "URI Template Descriptions" as
              draft-wilde-template-desc-00. however, it seems that there currently is
              a bit of delay before submissions become actually visible, so in the
              meantime i'd like to announce the draft on this list, and start
              gathering feedback. i'll send a brief note once the draft is available
              through the official IETF channels.

              all of this is still work in progress, but i thought it would be great
              to get community feedback early on. at
              https://github.com/dret/I-D/tree/master/template-desc you can find the
              document sources, as well as a schema (yes, it's XSD) td-00.xsd and a
              simple sample description document td-paging-00.xml. since this is meant
              to be for describing and documentation, td-00.xslt is a simple XSLT that
              can be used to generate a simple HTML version of the description.
              td-paging-00.xml links to this stylesheet, and XSLT-capable browsers
              will render the HTML client-side. but you can also simply look at
              td-paging-00.html for the static HTML version.

              for now, i'd be interested in feedback about the idea as a whole, as
              well as about features/capabilities you'd like to see added, if you are
              considering this to be something that could be useful for you.
              implementation-wise, i'd like to add URI Template support to the code
              (but then it needs to be XSLT 2.0 and stops working client-side), so
              that it would be possible to parse the URI Template, and match variables
              in it against variables in the description.

              thanks and cheers,

              dret.

              --
              erik wilde | mailto:dret@... - tel:+1-510-2061079 |
              | UC Berkeley - School of Information (ISchool) |
              | http://dret.net/netdret http://twitter.com/dret |

            • Erik Wilde
              ... nicholas did not really say what he means by forms . but typically, forms are a combination of (1) a template (which may be runtime or baked into the
              Message 6 of 8 , Dec 8, 2012
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                > You realise that URI templates and forms are, more-or-less, the same
                > kind of thing, albeit with the former being more flexible in kinds of
                > URI it can generate than the latter?

                nicholas did not really say what he means by "forms". but typically,
                forms are a combination of (1) a template (which may be runtime or baked
                into the media type as in HTML), (2) a set of values (described to some
                extent) that can be populated when submitting the form, and (3) maybe
                some UI info for rendering it (in UI-oriented form languages).

                you could look at "URI Template Descriptions" as starting with RFC 6570
                as the standard for templates (1), adding some description structure for
                the variables (2), and leaving any UI stuff (3) as something that could
                be packaged in the extension model, if required.

                cheers,

                dret.
              • Doug Davis
                These may be of interest: http://roy.gbiv.com/untangled/2008/rest-apis-must-be-hypertext-driven in particular bullet points #4 and #6
                Message 7 of 8 , Dec 8, 2012
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