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Re: REST, HTTP, Web, Internet [was Atom feed vs. list of orders]

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  • William Martinez Pomares
    Hi again, Erick I feel we are saying the same, only that I use to talk in general terms and you in Web terms. Need to think about reuse, interesting point but
    Message 1 of 139 , Sep 5, 2010
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      Hi again, Erick
      I feel we are saying the same, only that I use to talk in general terms and you in Web terms.

      Need to think about reuse, interesting point but not totally convinced yet.

      Also need to revisit the idea of REST as 'explanation of an "Internet-scale distributed hypermedia system" known as the Web'. I feel that was not the idea in the dissertation. It is a little more that just an explanation. But that may be a gray area.

      Will keep in touch.

      William.

      --- In rest-discuss@yahoogroups.com, "Eric J. Bowman" <eric@...> wrote:
      >
      > "William Martinez Pomares" wrote:
      > >
      > > 2. I said: "REST, as I understand, is a style. You can build it with
      > > whatever you want" and you said: "No, you can't build whatever you
      > > want with REST.". Kind of different things, right? Same words,
      > > different order, different meaning.
      > >
      >
      > Sorry about that -- I read it as "you can build with it..." which isn't
      > what you wrote.
      >
      > >
      > > a. REST is not only for reuse. If I don't care reuse, I can still
      > > have a case for REST.
      > >
      >
      > But re-use is the entire basis for REST:
      >
      > "By applying the software engineering principle of generality to the
      > component interface, the overall system architecture is simplified and
      > the visibility of interactions is improved."
      >
      > You can't have a uniform interface, otherwise.
      >
      > >
      > > b. REST is NOT about all the nodes out there, is about my
      > > application.
      > >
      >
      > REST is an explanation of an "Internet-scale distributed hypermedia
      > system" known as the Web. While REST may be applied to other domains,
      > if you're using the Web, you can't ignore all those other nodes out
      > there, because those other nodes are what make the Web "Internet scale."
      >
      > If none of the nodes between producer and consumer are capable of
      > understanding your messaging, then your application is *not* capable of
      > achieving "Internet scale," therefore your application cannot achieve
      > the goals of REST -- such an architecture may be considered REST-like,
      > or inspired by REST, but cannot be considered REST.
      >
      > >
      > > c. I may be wrong, but registering is not the only way of achieving
      > > self-descriptive language. Again, maybe Roy can tell me why, if it
      > > is, REST only solution is registration.
      > >
      >
      > Please don't separate my point from the context in which it was made.
      > On the Web, i.e. using HTTP over the Internet, there is simply no
      > alternative to using IANA-registered, standardized types. This does
      > *not* mean that REST's only solution to self-descriptive messaging is
      > the IANA registry -- it *does* mean there is no other way to achieve
      > self-descriptive messaging on the Web.
      >
      > >
      > > d. Non using IANA violates self-description?
      > >
      >
      > On the Web, if your system is following REST, you MUST use IANA-
      > registered standardized types, otherwise your messaging is *not* self-
      > descriptive for the "Internet-scale distributed hypermedia system"
      > you're supposedly targeting by pursuing REST using HTTP over the
      > Internet.
      >
      > >
      > > Style means you can use other things, following the same principles.
      > >
      >
      > True.
      >
      > >
      > > It means do not force to use IANA and WEB for REST.
      > >
      >
      > Nobody ever said it did. If you *are* using the Web, then yes, REST
      > *does* force you to use IANA-registered, standardized types. Because
      > that's the only mechanism HTTP defines, and that everybody agrees to,
      > for the most important aspect of self-descriptive messaging -- exposing
      > the processing model of the payload without having to introspect.
      >
      > -Eric
      >
    • Glenn Block
      +1 and that s just this thread :-) I would love for Roy to be that person since the topic always leads back to his direction. Glenn
      Message 139 of 139 , Oct 3, 2010
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        +1 and that's just this thread :-)
         
        I would love for Roy to be that person since the topic always leads back to his direction.
         
        Glenn

        On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Bob Haugen <bob.haugen@...> wrote:
         

        Yahoo says there are 103 messages in this thread. The discussion is
        circular and will never end.

        May I suggest starting a new thread with an appropriate title to focus
        exclusively on the IANA registry issue, where each person who has a
        different position states their position clearly and succinctly, and
        thereafter we refer back to that thread as a FAQ?

        Best I think if somebody with moderator-type skills summarizes all of
        the contradictory positions at the end of the thread, so we don't get
        into a who-get-the-last-word fight.

        I could start one, but I don't really have a position other than
        wanting to shortcut permathreads.


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