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the POX URI and HTTP method

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  • Sean Kennedy
    Hi, I just want to confirm if this is accurate: 1. POX tunnels all its messages using POST i.e. no GETs 2. the URI used is the same URI for all POX services at
    Message 1 of 10 , Oct 2, 2008
      Hi,
          I just want to confirm if this is accurate:
      1. POX tunnels all its messages using POST i.e. no GETs
      2. the URI used is the same URI for all POX services at that endpoint i.e. no unique URIs
      3. in these respects the POX model is the same as the SOAP model...

      Thanks,
      Sean.

    • Chris Burdess
      ... No. POX just refers to the HTTP entity format, saying that it s only the content that s transferred in the entity and not any metadata. It says nothing
      Message 2 of 10 , Oct 2, 2008
        Sean Kennedy wrote:
            I just want to confirm if this is accurate: 
        1. POX tunnels all its messages using POST i.e. no GETs 
        2. the URI used is the same URI for all POX services at that endpoint i.e. no unique URIs 
        3. in these respects the POX model is the same as the SOAP model...

        No. POX just refers to the HTTP entity format, saying that it's only the content that's transferred in the entity and not any metadata. It says nothing about what HTTP methods or URLs are used.
        -- 
        Chris Burdess

      • Sebastien Lambla
        No. POX just refers to the HTTP entity format, saying that it s only the content that s transferred in the entity and not any metadata. It says nothing about
        Message 3 of 10 , Oct 2, 2008
          No. POX just refers to the HTTP entity format, saying that it's only the content that's transferred in the entity and not any metadata. It says nothing about what HTTP methods or URLs are used.
          POX is commonly referring to services that are modeled in XML-RPC style but use simple GET and simple POST to send and receive data, almost always in one or two formats. More often than not POX services do not leverage any of the REST constraints (facebook API is a typical example).
           
          It's always been my understanding that the guys using the POX name meant "web services without a soap envelope" more than anything else.
           
          Seb
        • Aristotle Pagaltzis
          In the most general sense, POX means REST minus the hypermedia constraint and with uselessly generic media types: a service that serves and consumes XML
          Message 4 of 10 , Oct 2, 2008
            In the most general sense, POX means REST minus the hypermedia
            constraint and with uselessly generic media types: a service that
            serves and consumes XML documents in app-specific vocabularies,
            without any envelope, where links are absent in favour of
            app-specific IDs that require out-of-band knowledge of URI
            templates.

            Often the same data is offered in other data-centric formats;
            JSON is common. Again, the media type is uselessly generic.

            These services frequently disregard other REST constraints as
            well, especially the uniform interface, but I don’t consider that
            a defining property.

            Gateway URIs are not very prevalent, and certainly not at all a
            defining criterion.

            Regards,
            --
            Aristotle Pagaltzis // <http://plasmasturm.org/>
          • Stefan Tilkov
            I don t believe POX is officially defined anywhere. But I ve only ever seen it used as like SOAP, but without the envelope (i.e. your option 3). Stefan --
            Message 5 of 10 , Oct 2, 2008
              I don't believe "POX" is officially defined anywhere. But I've only
              ever seen it used as "like SOAP, but without the envelope" (i.e. your
              option 3).

              Stefan
              --
              Stefan Tilkov, http://www.innoq.com/blog/st/

              On 02.10.2008, at 16:09, Sean Kennedy wrote:

              >
              > Hi,
              > I just want to confirm if this is accurate:
              > 1. POX tunnels all its messages using POST i.e. no GETs
              > 2. the URI used is the same URI for all POX services at that
              > endpoint i.e. no unique URIs
              > 3. in these respects the POX model is the same as the SOAP model...
              >
              > Thanks,
              > Sean.
            • Subbu Allamaraju
              That s my impression as well. That s how I have used it, and seen it being used. What Sean is describing in the original question is similar to XML-RPC. Subbu
              Message 6 of 10 , Oct 2, 2008
                That's my impression as well. That's how I have used it, and seen it
                being used.

                What Sean is describing in the original question is similar to XML-RPC.

                Subbu
                ---
                http://subbu.org

                On Oct 2, 2008, at 2:46 PM, Aristotle Pagaltzis wrote:

                > In the most general sense, POX means REST minus the hypermedia
                > constraint and with uselessly generic media types: a service that
                > serves and consumes XML documents in app-specific vocabularies,
                > without any envelope, where links are absent in favour of
                > app-specific IDs that require out-of-band knowledge of URI
                > templates.
                >
                > Often the same data is offered in other data-centric formats;
                > JSON is common. Again, the media type is uselessly generic.
                >
                > These services frequently disregard other REST constraints as
                > well, especially the uniform interface, but I don’t consider that
                > a defining property.
                >
                > Gateway URIs are not very prevalent, and certainly not at all a
                > defining criterion.
                >
                > Regards,
                > --
                > Aristotle Pagaltzis // <http://plasmasturm.org/>
                >
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              • Aristotle Pagaltzis
                ... The way I remember it used back when it was a positive term (during the first wave of SOAP backlash pre REST awareness), it really did mean more than
                Message 7 of 10 , Oct 2, 2008
                  * Stefan Tilkov <stefan.tilkov@...> [2008-10-03 00:45]:
                  > I don't believe "POX" is officially defined anywhere. But I've
                  > only ever seen it used as "like SOAP, but without the envelope"
                  > (i.e. your option 3).

                  The way I remember it used back when it was a positive term
                  (during the first wave of SOAP backlash pre REST awareness),
                  it really did mean more than *just* shedding the envelope, but
                  the rest was fuzzy. Per-resource URIs were a meme already but
                  unsafe GETs were pervasive.

                  Regards,
                  --
                  Aristotle Pagaltzis // <http://plasmasturm.org/>
                • Alan Dean
                  ... POX was not / is not a standard in any way that I m aware of. I was using XML-over-HTTP by POSTing back in 2000/2001. Later, this was classified as POX
                  Message 8 of 10 , Oct 3, 2008
                    On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 12:14 AM, Aristotle Pagaltzis <pagaltzis@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > * Stefan Tilkov <stefan.tilkov@...> [2008-10-03 00:45]:
                    >
                    > > I don't believe "POX" is officially defined anywhere. But I've
                    > > only ever seen it used as "like SOAP, but without the envelope"
                    > > (i.e. your option 3).
                    >
                    > The way I remember it used back when it was a positive term
                    > (during the first wave of SOAP backlash pre REST awareness),
                    > it really did mean more than *just* shedding the envelope, but
                    > the rest was fuzzy. Per-resource URIs were a meme already but
                    > unsafe GETs were pervasive.

                    POX was not / is not a 'standard' in any way that I'm aware of. I was
                    using XML-over-HTTP by POSTing back in 2000/2001. Later, this was
                    classified as POX (by whom, I do not know). Mostly, it was very
                    XML-RPC in implementation style. It wasn't until TechEd 2002 in
                    Barcelona that I first heard of REST (which, in itself, is very
                    interesting because that was the big coming-out party for the first MS
                    WS-* stack in .NET).

                    "POX is to WS-*" ... "what Dinosaurs are to Birds" ;-)

                    Alan
                  • Aristotle Pagaltzis
                    ... I don’t think anyone claimed otherwise. POX was/is a meme, nothing concrete. What I described is the kind of service that I remember being classified as
                    Message 9 of 10 , Oct 3, 2008
                      * Alan Dean <alan.dean@...> [2008-10-03 12:50]:
                      > On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 12:14 AM, Aristotle Pagaltzis <pagaltzis@...> wrote:
                      > > The way I remember it used back when it was a positive term
                      > > (during the first wave of SOAP backlash pre REST awareness),
                      > > […]
                      >
                      > POX was not / is not a 'standard' in any way that I'm aware of.

                      I don’t think anyone claimed otherwise. POX was/is a meme,
                      nothing concrete.

                      What I described is the kind of service that I remember being
                      classified as POX. Maybe I was late to the game and by then
                      people were already more clueful than those who coined the
                      term – I don’t know.

                      It had quite positive connotations when I picked up the term;
                      maybe that’s a hint.

                      Regards,
                      --
                      Aristotle Pagaltzis // <http://plasmasturm.org/>
                    • Bill de hOra
                      POX to me means REST-as-in-HTTP, - without ensuring client application state is on the client - without ensuring resources are addressable - without regard for
                      Message 10 of 10 , Oct 4, 2008
                        POX to me means REST-as-in-HTTP,

                        - without ensuring client application state is on the client
                        - without ensuring resources are addressable
                        - without regard for caching intermediaries
                        - application/xml semantics

                        If you actually wrote it down instead of treating it as a meme, I think
                        it would be very close to MEST minus SOAP minus protocol neutrality, and
                        is more of a reaction against SOAP/WS than towards REST.

                        But MEST is deprecated as of Q308, right?

                        http://www.infoq.com/news/2008/10/rest-workflow

                        ;)


                        Bill

                        Alan Dean wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 12:14 AM, Aristotle Pagaltzis <pagaltzis@...
                        > <mailto:pagaltzis%40gmx.de>> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > * Stefan Tilkov <stefan.tilkov@...
                        > <mailto:stefan.tilkov%40innoq.com>> [2008-10-03 00:45]:
                        > >
                        > > > I don't believe "POX" is officially defined anywhere. But I've
                        > > > only ever seen it used as "like SOAP, but without the envelope"
                        > > > (i.e. your option 3).
                        > >
                        > > The way I remember it used back when it was a positive term
                        > > (during the first wave of SOAP backlash pre REST awareness),
                        > > it really did mean more than *just* shedding the envelope, but
                        > > the rest was fuzzy. Per-resource URIs were a meme already but
                        > > unsafe GETs were pervasive.
                        >
                        > POX was not / is not a 'standard' in any way that I'm aware of. I was
                        > using XML-over-HTTP by POSTing back in 2000/2001. Later, this was
                        > classified as POX (by whom, I do not know). Mostly, it was very
                        > XML-RPC in implementation style. It wasn't until TechEd 2002 in
                        > Barcelona that I first heard of REST (which, in itself, is very
                        > interesting because that was the big coming-out party for the first MS
                        > WS-* stack in .NET).
                        >
                        > "POX is to WS-*" ... "what Dinosaurs are to Birds" ;-)
                        >
                        > Alan
                        >
                        >
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