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11428Re: [whatwg] Proposing URI Templates for WebForms 2.0

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  • Mark Nottingham
    Nov 1, 2008
      On 01/11/2008, at 9:44 PM, Mike Schinkel wrote:

      > Second, hasn't it been obvious with the explosion of social media
      > that over
      > time the vast majority of content published on the web will be
      > published by
      > people using a server they do not control? Forums, Blog hosting,
      > Facebook,
      > LinkedIn, etc. etc. etc.

      Yes, but consider how little HTML is allowed by most of these, and
      why...

      > Plenty do but more do not, and many people on forums, blog posts and
      > mailing
      > lists recommend to others not to do so because of the performance
      > cost. The
      > cost of round trips has been used as a reason against certain web
      > architectures such as in discussions of ROBOTS.TXT and 303.
      >
      > Most notably people who write about web performance optimization who
      > happen
      > to work for your employer recommend against doing so:
      >
      > http://developer.yahoo.com/performance/rules.html#redirects
      > http://developer.yahoo.com/performance/rules.html#num_http

      Of course; the point I was trying to make is that avoiding a roundtrip
      isn't going to motivate a whole new technology, at least one that's so
      specialised.

      > BTW, the only person I've gotten resistance from on this besides
      > Hixie is
      > you... :)

      True, and if you're in a position to get your proposal accepted and
      implemented, I'll be the last to get in your way.

      > But that misses the point; the most compelling use-cases are for where
      > Javascript isn't available!

      If you define it as declarative markup and implement it for the
      browsing case with JavaScript, non-JS clients (e.g., robots) can still
      use the declarative markup, if they're aware of it.

      > So would it help if I could show you numerous examples where people
      > are
      > using Javascript to accomplish this with forms? Would that be the
      > "pain" you
      > are looking for?
      >
      > That said, what about the pain of not being able to crawl forms that
      > use
      > Javascript for this? Isn't that a compelling use case?

      I think I'll stop typing and listen to what others have to say.

      > As an aside, I'd be interested in any reference you have that I can
      > read up
      > on "standard's theory."


      Carl Cargill did a good job in "Open Systems Standardization":
      http://www.amazon.com/Open-Systems-Standardization-Business-Approach/dp/0132683199/

      Cheers (and good night),

      --
      Mark Nottingham http://www.mnot.net/
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