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Linda questions the rebuilding of the Third Temple.

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  • Dennis Tate
    Response to Third Temple question by Linda Bedwell. ... Response from Linda: ... Then there are those who believe that: The Messiah will build His temple: Zech
    Message 1 of 7 , May 15, 2004
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      Response to Third Temple question by Linda Bedwell.
      Response from Linda:

      Quote:


      Then there are those who believe that:

      The Messiah will build His temple:

      Zech 6:12-13
      12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh YHWH of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and He shall grow up out of his place, and He shall build the temple of YHWH:

      13 Even He shall build the temple of YHWH; and He shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon His throne; and He shall be a priest upon His throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.
      KJV

      The Branch being:

      Jer 23:5-6
      5 Behold, the days come, saith YHWH, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.

      6 In His days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is His name whereby He shall be called, YHWH OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
      KJV


      They also believe that:

      Dan 11:44-45
      44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.

      45 And he (the antimessiah?) shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.
      KJV

      If you notice carefully, he plants the tabernacle of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain! This does not say he will plant his tabernacle in a temple standing on the mount. The Temple mount has already been signed over to the pope.

      So, does there have to be a temple standing for the Messiah to come? Does His coming depend on what we mortal humans do? Such ridiculousness!! YHWH will send His Son in spite of what we as humans do! We can repent and get right with YHWH...or not...but His kingdom WILL BE ESTABLISHED...at the appointed time, and nothing humans do or don't do will stop it!

      Linda

       

      Re: Response to Third Temple question by Linda Bedwell.


      Then there are those who believe that:

      Quote:
      The Messiah will build His temple:

      Zech 6:12-13
      12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh YHWH of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and He shall grow up out of his place, and He shall build the temple of YHWH:

      13 Even He shall build the temple of YHWH; and He shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon His throne; and He shall be a priest upon His throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.
      KJV



      Excellent question.

      I agree that Yeshua/Jesus is Moshiach ben David and that He is at this very time building a spiritual temple, the church, the people in whom He dwells through His Ruach ha Qodesh/The Holy Spirit. On the metaphorical level, Yeshua is fulfilling this verse at this very moment and behind the scenes it is Yeshua, sitting at the Right Hand of Power, who will raise up the final Elijah, the two witnesses, a modern Zerubbabel and fulfill the Jewisish prophecy that there will be a Moshiach ben Ephrayim/Yosef, who will regather the lost tribes of Israel and be instrumental in the rebuilding of the third temple previous to the coming of Moshiach ben DAvid, (who I believe is Yeshua/Jesus).

      I suspect that this "Branch" prophecy can also refer to Moshiach ben Ephrayim/Yosef, who possibly could be one and the same person as the last Elijah, if these verses from the Catholic Bible are inspired by the Holy Spirit.

      "Thus was Elias magnified in his wondrous works. And who can glory like to thee?
      Who raisedst up a dead man from below, from the lot of death, by the word of the Lord God.
      Who broughtest down kings to destruction, and brokest easily their power in pieces, and the glorious from their bed.
      Who heardest judgment in Sina, and in Horeb the judgments of vengeance.
      Who anointedst kings to penance, and madest prophets successors after thee.
      Who was taken up in a whirlwind of fire, in a chariot of fiery horses.
      Who art registered in the judgments of times to appease the wrath of the Lord, to reconcile the heart of the father to the son, and to restore the tribes of Jacob." (Ecclesiasticus 48:6-10).

      Although, the prophecies of what Elijah must accomplish coincide beautifully with what must be done by "Moshiach ben Ephrayim/Yosef, the Yair Davidiy writing stating that the last Elijah, instead will "stir up" Moshiach ben Yosef, makes a great deal of sense.

      Quote:
      The MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH in some sources is referred to as the �Messiah son [descendant] of Ephraim.� The MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH is associated with the saving of lives and the rescue of Israelites and in this he is assisted by Judah and by the MESSIAH SON OF DAVID. By way of Comment: The MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH, as we have seen, is connected with the ingathering of the exiles. America and Britain both in their own way in the past did helped the ingathering of the exiles of Judah to the Land of Israel. Our Prayers Are Needed �Kol HaTor� says [1.24] �With our deeds and prayers we shall come to the aid of MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH. Through our exertions with all our might of self-arousal [arousal from below as distinct from arousal from heaven] we will achieve the union of the two messiahs, the MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH and the MESSIAH SON OF DAVID, �the stick of Joseph and the stick of Judah� [mentioned by Ezekiel 37]. [The two sticks will join together just as Judah and Joseph will join together]......

      The First Redeemer [MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH] fights against Amalek with total warfare�[he fights against the forces of anti-Semitism]. This was the task of Joshua ben Nun who was [a forerunner and ancestor of] the Messiah Son of Joseph. Aroused by Elijah �Kol HaTor� says [2.71] �Behold I will send you my prophet Elijah�and he will return the hearts of the fathers to their sons� (Malachi 4). One of the tasks of Elijah is to arouse the spirit of the MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH.

      www.britam.org/messiah.html

      (Incidentally, the thought has crossed my mind that the Christian belief in TWO witnesses could fit perfectly with the Jewish belief in two Mashiachs. Mashiach ben Yosef might be the second of the two witnesses, if Elijah is one of the two witnesses, but then again, there is a real possibility that Mashiach ben Yosef is moreso perhaps the final human Zerubbabel type, who will finish the Third Temple).

      Quote:
      8 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 9 The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this house; his hands shall also finish it; and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto you.

      Zechariah 4:8,9

      Re: Response to Third Temple question by Linda Bedwell.


      Incidentally, this verse about Zerubbabel laying the foundation of the temple could fit perfectly with Asher Manthany's assertion that there cannot be any other building on the temple site, such as the Dome of the Rock. Perhaps it will be necessary to painstakingly deconstruct everything, every stone in the existing temple mount, right down to the foundation laid by Zerubbabel. Maybe the work done by Herod is considered non kosher by the Eternal. This act would also fulfill the words of Yeshua/Jesus. (Ofcourse, it is possible to reconstruct the remains of the existing Temple and Dome of the Rock somewhere else, which would fit perfectly with the assertion that there are on this planet, TWO ARCS OF THE COVENANT. According to very impressive sources a duplicate was made in the time of Solomon, the duplicate was placed in the Second Temple and the real Arc of the Covenant was taken to Ethiopia where it is being guarded right now by the remnants of the Falasha Jews, who are awaiting a Word from The Eternal to return the Arc to Jerusalem).



      Quote:
      Matthew 24

      1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down



      At this time there are still some stones standing on top of each other in the Temple Mount area and so this prophecy has not yet been completely fulfilled.

      Quote:
      15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

      Matthew 24:15

      This prophecy about the Abomination of Desolation, standing in the Holy Place fits perfectly with many Old Testament prophecies, that we Christians tend to completely misunderstand.

      Quote:
      21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries. 22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.

      Daniel 11:21,22

      This prophecy about the anti-Messiah taking the kingdom by flatteries, certainly would remind one of the modern art of "politics" and a modern prince of the covenant, could well be Mashiach ben Yosef, who is predicted to be killed in the eastern gate, by "Armilius."

      Quote:
      The immediate results of this war will be disastrous: Moshiach ben Yossef will be killed. This is described in the prophecy of Zechariah, who says of this tragedy that �they shall mourn him as one mourns for an only child.� (Zechariah 12:10).[12] His death will be followed by a period of great calamities. These new tribulations shall be the final test for Israel, and shortly thereafter Moshiach ben David shall come, avenge his death, resurrect him, and inaugurate the Messianic era of everlasting peace and bliss.

      www.moshiach.com/discover/tutorials/moshiach_ben_yossef.php

      Re: Response to Third Temple question by Linda Bedwell.


      Quote:
      28 Then shall he return into his land with great riches; and his heart shall be against the holy covenant; and he shall do exploits, and return to his own land.29 At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter.30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant. 31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

      Daniel 11:28-31

      In order for the "daily sacrifices" to be taken away, ofcourse they must first be being made, DAILY. At this moment, this part of the verse isn't being fulfilled, but I believe that it soon will be.

      Where are these sacrifices being made?

      Isaiah clinches this question by stating that this happens in "the temple."

      Quote:
      5 Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed. 6 A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the LORD that rendereth recompence to his enemies.

      Isaiah 66:5,6

      Like you Linda, while I was a member of the Worldwide Church of God, I really didn't think too much about the Third Temple but now that I have looked much more extensively into the Jewish prophecies, it seems very clear to me that
      1. sacrifices will be made daily
      2.those sacrifices will be stopped by Anti-Messiah
      3. those sacrifices are being made in the area of a restored Third Temple that perhaps incorporates nothing more from the existing temple area than the foundation that was laid at the time of Zerubbabel.

      If we Christians actually want Christ/Messiah back here on this earth then we had better help the Jews rebuild the Third Temple and begin daily sacrifices.

       

      http://p221.ezboard.com/frebuildthethirdtemplefrm2.showMessage?topicID=12.topic



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    • russell
      1599 Geneva Hebrews 9;9 Which was a figure for that present time, cherub of gold, & wood do not fight well, Messiah is the covenant so their is no need
      Message 2 of 7 , May 15, 2004
      • 0 Attachment
        1599     Geneva   Hebrews 9;9" Which was a figure for that present time," cherub of gold, & wood do not fight well, Messiah is the covenant so their is no need for a ark of a covenant, With the presents of seraphim's and cherubs[mortal angels according to is 6] the seven thrones,and their dominions,and then their principalities,  powers of the world unite against Michael[Christ] THEIR WILL BE NO NEED FOR A TEMPLE In the city new Jerusalem the presents of G-d and his son remove the need for a temple,at this time of war their is no icon necessary,if the people see Christ as Christ why would they make war with him or his army.But they will !!!  if I did not get my point across to you say so  I`ll try again.
        Russell   
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 6:53 AM
        Subject: [reluctant-messenger] Linda questions the rebuilding of the Third Temple.

        Response to Third Temple question by Linda Bedwell.
        Response from Linda:

        Quote:


        Then there are those who believe that:

        The Messiah will build His temple:

        Zech 6:12-13
        12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh YHWH of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and He shall grow up out of his place, and He shall build the temple of YHWH:

        13 Even He shall build the temple of YHWH; and He shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon His throne; and He shall be a priest upon His throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.
        KJV

        The Branch being:

        Jer 23:5-6
        5 Behold, the days come, saith YHWH, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.

        6 In His days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is His name whereby He shall be called, YHWH OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
        KJV


        They also believe that:

        Dan 11:44-45
        44 But tidings out of the east and out of th! e north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.

        45 And he (the antimessiah?) shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.
        KJV

        If you notice carefully, he plants the tabernacle of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain! This does not say he will plant his tabernacle in a temple standing on the mount. The Temple mount has already been signed over to the pope.

        So, does there have to be a temple standing for the Messiah to come? Does His coming depend on what we mortal humans do? Such ridiculousness!! YHWH will send His Son in spite of what we as humans do! We can repent and get right with YHWH...or not...but His kingdom WILL BE ESTABLISHED...at the appointed time, and nothing humans do or don't do will stop it!

        Linda

         

        Re: Response to Third Temple question by Linda Bedwell.


        Then there are those who believe that:

        Quote:
        The Messiah will build His temple:

        Zech 6:12-13
        12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh YHWH of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and He shall grow up out of his place, and He shall build the temple of YHWH:

        13 Even He shall build the temple of YHWH; and He shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon His throne; and He shall be a priest upon His throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.
        KJV



        Excellent question.

        I agree that Yeshua/Jesus is Moshiach ben David and that He is at this very time building a spiritual temple, the church, the people in whom He dwells through His Ruach ha Qodesh/The Holy Spirit. On the metaphorical level, Yeshua is fulfilling this verse at this very moment and behind the scenes it is Yeshua, sitting at the Right Hand of Power, who will raise up the final Elijah, the two witnesses, a modern Zerubbabel and fulfill the Jewisish prophecy that there will be a Moshiach ben Ephrayim/Yosef, who will regather the lost tribes of Israel and be instrumental in the rebuilding of the third temple previous to the coming of Moshiach ben DAvid, (who I believe is Yeshua/Jesus).

        I suspect that this "Branch" prophecy can also refer to Moshiach ben Ephrayim/Yosef, who possibly could be one and the same person as the last Elijah, if these verses from the Catholic Bible are inspired by the Holy Spirit.

        "! Thus was Elias magnified in his wondrous works. And who can glory like to thee?
        Who raisedst up a dead man from below, from the lot of death, by the word of the Lord God.
        Who broughtest down kings to destruction, and brokest easily their power in pieces, and the glorious from their bed.
        Who heardest judgment in Sina, and in Horeb the judgments of vengeance.
        Who anointedst kings to penance, and madest prophets successors after thee.
        Who was taken up in a whirlwind of fire, in a chariot of fiery horses.
        Who art registered in the judgments of times to appease the wrath of the Lord, to reconcile the heart of the father to the son, and to restore the tribes of Jacob." (Ecclesiasticus 48:6-10).

        Although, the prophecies of what Elijah must accomplish coincide beautifully with what must be done by "Moshiach ben Ephrayim/Yosef, the Yair Davidiy writing stating that the last Elijah, instead will "stir up" ! Moshiach ben Yosef, makes a great deal of sense.

        Quote:
        The MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH in some sources is referred to as the “Messiah son [descendant] of Ephraim.” The MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH is associated with the saving of lives and the rescue of Israelites and in this he is assisted by Judah and by the MESSIAH SON OF DAVID. By way of Comment: The MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH, as we have seen, is connected with the ingathering of the exiles. America and Britain both in their own way in the past did helped the ingathering of the exiles of Judah to the Land of Israel. Our Prayers Are Needed “Kol HaTor” says [1.24] “With our deeds and prayers we shall come to the aid of MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH. Through our exertions with all our might of self-arousal [arousal from below as distinct from arousal from heaven] we will achieve the union of the two messiahs, the MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH and the MESSIAH SON OF DAVID, ‘the stick of Joseph and the stick of Judah’ [mentioned by Ezekiel 37]. [The two sticks will join together just as Judah and Joseph will join together]......

        The First Redeemer [MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH] fights against Amalek with total warfare…[he fights against the forces of anti-Semitism]. This was the task of Joshua ben Nun who was [a forerunner and ancestor of] the Messiah Son of Joseph. Aroused by Elijah “Kol HaTor” says [2.71] “Behold I will send you my prophet Elijah…and he will return the hearts of the fathers to their sons” (Malachi 4). One of the tasks of Elijah is to arouse the spirit of the MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH.

        www.britam.org/messiah.html

        (Incidentally, the thought has crossed my mind that the Christian belief in TWO witnesses could fit perfectly with the Jewish belief in two Mashiachs. Mashiach ben Yosef might be the second of the two witnesses, if Elijah is one of the two witnesses, but then again, there is a real possibility that Mashiach ben Yosef is moreso perhaps the final human Zerubbabel type, who will finish the Third Temple).

        Quote:
        8 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 9 The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this house; his hands shall also finish it; and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto you.

        Zechariah 4:8,9

        Re: Response to Third Temple question by Linda Bedwell.


        Incidentally, this verse about Zerubbabel laying the foundation of the temple could fit perfectly with Asher Manthany's assertion that there cannot be any other building on the temple site, such as the Dome of the Rock. Perhaps it will be necessary to painstakingly deconstruct everything, every stone in the existing temple mount, right down to the foundation laid by Zerubbabel. Maybe the work done by Herod is considered non kosher by the Eternal. This act would also fulfill the words of Yeshua/Jesus. (Ofcourse, it is possible to reconstruct the remains of the existing Temple and Dome of the Rock somewhere else, which would fit perfectly with the assertion that there are on this planet, TWO ARCS OF THE COVENANT. According to very impressive sources a duplicate was made in the time of Solomon, the duplicate was placed in the Second Temple and the real Arc of the Covenant was taken to Ethiopia where it is being guarded right now by the remnants of the Falasha Jews, who are a! waiting a Word from The Eternal to return the Arc to Jerusalem).



        Quote:
        Matthew 24

        1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down



        At this time there are still some stones standing on top of each other in the Temple Mount area and so this prophecy has not yet been completely fulfilled.

        Quote:
        15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

        Matthew 24:15

        This prophecy about the Abomination of Desolation, standing in the Holy Place fits perfectly with many Old Testament prophecies, that we Christians tend to completely misunderstand.

        Quote:
        21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries. 22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.

        Daniel 11:21,22

        This prophecy about the anti-Messiah taking the kingdom by flatteries, certainly would remind one of the modern art of "politics" and a modern prince of the covenant, could well be Mashiach ben Yosef, who is predicted to be killed in the eastern gate, by "Armilius."

        Quote:
        The immediate results of this war will be disastrous: Moshiach ben Yossef will be killed. This is described in the prophecy of Zechariah, who says of this tragedy that “they shall mourn him as one mourns for an only child.” (Zechariah 12:10).[12] His death will be followed by a period of great calamities. These new tribulations shall be the final test for Israel, and shortly thereafter Moshiach ben David shall come, avenge his death, resurrect him, and inaugurate the Messianic era of everlasting peace and bliss.

        www.moshiach.com/discover/tutorials/moshiach_ben_yossef.php

        Re: Response to Third Temple question by Linda Bedwell.


        Quote:
        28 Then shall he return into his land with great riches; and his heart shall be against the holy covenant; and he shall do exploits, and return to his own land.29 At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter.30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant. 31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

        Daniel 11:28-31

        In order for the "daily sacrifices" to be taken away, ofcourse they must first be being made, DAILY. At this moment, this part of the verse isn't being fulfilled, but I believe that it soon will be.

        Where are these sacrifices being made?

        Isaiah clinches this question by stating that this happens in "the temple."

        Quote:
        5 Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed. 6 A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the LORD that rendereth recompence to his enemies.

        Isaiah 66:5,6

        Like you Linda, while I was a member of the Worldwide Church of God, I really didn't think too much about the Third Temple but now that I have looked much more extensively into the Jewish prophecies, it seems very clear to me that
        1. sacrifices will be made daily
        2.those sacrifices will be stopped by Anti-Messiah
        3. those sacrifices are being made in the area of a restored Third Temple that perhaps incorporates nothing more from the existing temple area than the foundation that was laid at the time of Zerubbabel.

        If we Christians actually want Christ/Messiah back here on this earth then we had better help the Jews rebuild the Third Temple and begin daily sacrifices.

         

        http://p221.ezboard.com/frebuildthethirdtemplefrm2.showMessage?topicID=12.topic



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        Visit the website at :
        www.reluctant-messenger.com/main.htm



      • russell
        their is on lost tribes Dan is in Turkey and has been for ever ... From: Princess To: reluctant-messenger@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 10:45 AM
        Message 3 of 7 , May 15, 2004
        • 0 Attachment
          their is on lost tribes Dan is in Turkey and has been for ever
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Princess
          Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 10:45 AM
          Subject: Re: [reluctant-messenger] Linda questions the rebuilding of the Third Temple.

          Yes Yashua is the tuth made manifest never a jew but a Hebrew coming for his lost tribes to carry them back to Israel .
          He Lives .
          In His Love ,
          Princess  

          Dennis Tate <tate4242@...> wrote:
          Response to Third Temple question by Linda Bedwell.
          Response from Linda:

          Quote:


          Then there are those who believe that:

          The Messiah will build His temple:

          Zech 6:12-13
          12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh YHWH of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and He shall grow up out of his place, and He shall build the temple of YHWH:

          13 Even He shall build the temple of YHWH; and He shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon His throne; and He shall be a priest upon His throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.
          KJV

          The Branch being:

          Jer 23:5-6
          5 Behold, the days come, saith YHWH, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.

          6 In His days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is His name whereby He shall be called, YHWH OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
          KJV


          They also believe that:

          Dan 11:44-45
          44 But tidings out of the east and out of th! e north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.

          45 And he (the antimessiah?) shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.
          KJV

          If you notice carefully, he plants the tabernacle of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain! This does not say he will plant his tabernacle in a temple standing on the mount. The Temple mount has already been signed over to the pope.

          So, does there have to be a temple standing for the Messiah to come? Does His coming depend on what we mortal humans do? Such ridiculousness!! YHWH will send His Son in spite of what we as humans do! We can repent and get right with YHWH...or not...but His kingdom WILL BE ESTABLISHED...at the appointed time, and nothing humans do or don't do will stop it!

          Linda

           

          Re: Response to Third Temple question by Linda Bedwell.


          Then there are those who believe that:

          Quote:
          The Messiah will build His temple:

          Zech 6:12-13
          12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh YHWH of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and He shall grow up out of his place, and He shall build the temple of YHWH:

          13 Even He shall build the temple of YHWH; and He shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon His throne; and He shall be a priest upon His throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.
          KJV



          Excellent question.

          I agree that Yeshua/Jesus is Moshiach ben David and that He is at this very time building a spiritual temple, the church, the people in whom He dwells through His Ruach ha Qodesh/The Holy Spirit. On the metaphorical level, Yeshua is fulfilling this verse at this very moment and behind the scenes it is Yeshua, sitting at the Right Hand of Power, who will raise up the final Elijah, the two witnesses, a modern Zerubbabel and fulfill the Jewisish prophecy that there will be a Moshiach ben Ephrayim/Yosef, who will regather the lost tribes of Israel and be instrumental in the rebuilding of the third temple previous to the coming of Moshiach ben DAvid, (who I believe is Yeshua/Jesus).

          I suspect that this "Branch" prophecy can also refer to Moshiach ben Ephrayim/Yosef, who possibly could be one and the same person as the last Elijah, if these verses from the Catholic Bible are inspired by the Holy Spirit.

          "! Thus was Elias magnified in his wondrous works. And who can glory like to thee?
          Who raisedst up a dead man from below, from the lot of death, by the word of the Lord God.
          Who broughtest down kings to destruction, and brokest easily their power in pieces, and the glorious from their bed.
          Who heardest judgment in Sina, and in Horeb the judgments of vengeance.
          Who anointedst kings to penance, and madest prophets successors after thee.
          Who was taken up in a whirlwind of fire, in a chariot of fiery horses.
          Who art registered in the judgments of times to appease the wrath of the Lord, to reconcile the heart of the father to the son, and to restore the tribes of Jacob." (Ecclesiasticus 48:6-10).

          Although, the prophecies of what Elijah must accomplish coincide beautifully with what must be done by "Moshiach ben Ephrayim/Yosef, the Yair Davidiy writing stating that the last Elijah, instead will "stir up" ! Moshiach ben Yosef, makes a great deal of sense.

          Quote:
          The MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH in some sources is referred to as the “Messiah son [descendant] of Ephraim.” The MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH is associated with the saving of lives and the rescue of Israelites and in this he is assisted by Judah and by the MESSIAH SON OF DAVID. By way of Comment: The MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH, as we have seen, is connected with the ingathering of the exiles. America and Britain both in their own way in the past did helped the ingathering of the exiles of Judah to the Land of Israel. Our Prayers Are Needed “Kol HaTor” says [1.24] “With our deeds and prayers we shall come to the aid of MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH. Through our exertions with all our might of self-arousal [arousal from below as distinct from arousal from heaven] we will achieve the union of the two messiahs, the MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH and the MESSIAH SON OF DAVID, ‘the stick of Joseph and the stick of Judah’ [mentioned by Ezekiel 37]. [The two sticks will join together just as Judah and Joseph will join together]......

          The First Redeemer [MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH] fights against Amalek with total warfare…[he fights against the forces of anti-Semitism]. This was the task of Joshua ben Nun who was [a forerunner and ancestor of] the Messiah Son of Joseph. Aroused by Elijah “Kol HaTor” says [2.71] “Behold I will send you my prophet Elijah…and he will return the hearts of the fathers to their sons” (Malachi 4). One of the tasks of Elijah is to arouse the spirit of the MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH.

          www.britam.org/messiah.html

          (Incidentally, the thought has crossed my mind that the Christian belief in TWO witnesses could fit perfectly with the Jewish belief in two Mashiachs. Mashiach ben Yosef might be the second of the two witnesses, if Elijah is one of the two witnesses, but then again, there is a real possibility that Mashiach ben Yosef is moreso perhaps the final human Zerubbabel type, who will finish the Third Temple).

          Quote:
          8 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 9 The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this house; his hands shall also finish it; and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto you.

          Zechariah 4:8,9

          Re: Response to Third Temple question by Linda Bedwell.


          Incidentally, this verse about Zerubbabel laying the foundation of the temple could fit perfectly with Asher Manthany's assertion that there cannot be any other building on the temple site, such as the Dome of the Rock. Perhaps it will be necessary to painstakingly deconstruct everything, every stone in the existing temple mount, right down to the foundation laid by Zerubbabel. Maybe the work done by Herod is considered non kosher by the Eternal. This act would also fulfill the words of Yeshua/Jesus. (Ofcourse, it is possible to reconstruct the remains of the existing Temple and Dome of the Rock somewhere else, which would fit perfectly with the assertion that there are on this planet, TWO ARCS OF THE COVENANT. According to very impressive sources a duplicate was made in the time of Solomon, the duplicate was placed in the Second Temple and the real Arc of the Covenant was taken to Ethiopia where it is being guarded right now by the remnants of the Falasha Jews, who are a! waiting a Word from The Eternal to return the Arc to Jerusalem).



          Quote:
          Matthew 24

          1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down



          At this time there are still some stones standing on top of each other in the Temple Mount area and so this prophecy has not yet been completely fulfilled.

          Quote:
          15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

          Matthew 24:15

          This prophecy about the Abomination of Desolation, standing in the Holy Place fits perfectly with many Old Testament prophecies, that we Christians tend to completely misunderstand.

          Quote:
          21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries. 22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.

          Daniel 11:21,22

          This prophecy about the anti-Messiah taking the kingdom by flatteries, certainly would remind one of the modern art of "politics" and a modern prince of the covenant, could well be Mashiach ben Yosef, who is predicted to be killed in the eastern gate, by "Armilius."

          Quote:
          The immediate results of this war will be disastrous: Moshiach ben Yossef will be killed. This is described in the prophecy of Zechariah, who says of this tragedy that “they shall mourn him as one mourns for an only child.” (Zechariah 12:10).[12] His death will be followed by a period of great calamities. These new tribulations shall be the final test for Israel, and shortly thereafter Moshiach ben David shall come, avenge his death, resurrect him, and inaugurate the Messianic era of everlasting peace and bliss.

          www.moshiach.com/discover/tutorials/moshiach_ben_yossef.php

          Re: Response to Third Temple question by Linda Bedwell.


          Quote:
          28 Then shall he return into his land with great riches; and his heart shall be against the holy covenant; and he shall do exploits, and return to his own land.29 At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter.30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant. 31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

          Daniel 11:28-31

          In order for the "daily sacrifices" to be taken away, ofcourse they must first be being made, DAILY. At this moment, this part of the verse isn't being fulfilled, but I believe that it soon will be.

          Where are these sacrifices being made?

          Isaiah clinches this question by stating that this happens in "the temple."

          Quote:
          5 Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed. 6 A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the LORD that rendereth recompence to his enemies.

          Isaiah 66:5,6

          Like you Linda, while I was a member of the Worldwide Church of God, I really didn't think too much about the Third Temple but now that I have looked much more extensively into the Jewish prophecies, it seems very clear to me that
          1. sacrifices will be made daily
          2.those sacrifices will be stopped by Anti-Messiah
          3. those sacrifices are being made in the area of a restored Third Temple that perhaps incorporates nothing more from the existing temple area than the foundation that was laid at the time of Zerubbabel.

          If we Christians actually want Christ/Messiah back here on this earth then we had better help the Jews rebuild the Third Temple and begin daily sacrifices.

           

          http://p221.ezboard.com/frebuildthethirdtemplefrm2.showMessage?topicID=12.topic



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        • Princess
          Yes Yashua is the tuth made manifest never a jew but a Hebrew coming for his lost tribes to carry them back to Israel . He Lives . In His Love , Princess
          Message 4 of 7 , May 15, 2004
          • 0 Attachment
            Yes Yashua is the tuth made manifest never a jew but a Hebrew coming for his lost tribes to carry them back to Israel .
            He Lives .
            In His Love ,
            Princess  

            Dennis Tate <tate4242@...> wrote:
            Response to Third Temple question by Linda Bedwell.
            Response from Linda:

            Quote:


            Then there are those who believe that:

            The Messiah will build His temple:

            Zech 6:12-13
            12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh YHWH of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and He shall grow up out of his place, and He shall build the temple of YHWH:

            13 Even He shall build the temple of YHWH; and He shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon His throne; and He shall be a priest upon His throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.
            KJV

            The Branch being:

            Jer 23:5-6
            5 Behold, the days come, saith YHWH, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.

            6 In His days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is His name whereby He shall be called, YHWH OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
            KJV


            They also believe that:

            Dan 11:44-45
            44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.

            45 And he (the antimessiah?) shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.
            KJV

            If you notice carefully, he plants the tabernacle of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain! This does not say he will plant his tabernacle in a temple standing on the mount. The Temple mount has already been signed over to the pope.

            So, does there have to be a temple standing for the Messiah to come? Does His coming depend on what we mortal humans do? Such ridiculousness!! YHWH will send His Son in spite of what we as humans do! We can repent and get right with YHWH...or not...but His kingdom WILL BE ESTABLISHED...at the appointed time, and nothing humans do or don't do will stop it!

            Linda

             

            Re: Response to Third Temple question by Linda Bedwell.


            Then there are those who believe that:

            Quote:
            The Messiah will build His temple:

            Zech 6:12-13
            12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh YHWH of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and He shall grow up out of his place, and He shall build the temple of YHWH:

            13 Even He shall build the temple of YHWH; and He shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon His throne; and He shall be a priest upon His throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.
            KJV



            Excellent question.

            I agree that Yeshua/Jesus is Moshiach ben David and that He is at this very time building a spiritual temple, the church, the people in whom He dwells through His Ruach ha Qodesh/The Holy Spirit. On the metaphorical level, Yeshua is fulfilling this verse at this very moment and behind the scenes it is Yeshua, sitting at the Right Hand of Power, who will raise up the final Elijah, the two witnesses, a modern Zerubbabel and fulfill the Jewisish prophecy that there will be a Moshiach ben Ephrayim/Yosef, who will regather the lost tribes of Israel and be instrumental in the rebuilding of the third temple previous to the coming of Moshiach ben DAvid, (who I believe is Yeshua/Jesus).

            I suspect that this "Branch" prophecy can also refer to Moshiach ben Ephrayim/Yosef, who possibly could be one and the same person as the last Elijah, if these verses from the Catholic Bible are inspired by the Holy Spirit.

            "Thus was Elias magnified in his wondrous works. And who can glory like to thee?
            Who raisedst up a dead man from below, from the lot of death, by the word of the Lord God.
            Who broughtest down kings to destruction, and brokest easily their power in pieces, and the glorious from their bed.
            Who heardest judgment in Sina, and in Horeb the judgments of vengeance.
            Who anointedst kings to penance, and madest prophets successors after thee.
            Who was taken up in a whirlwind of fire, in a chariot of fiery horses.
            Who art registered in the judgments of times to appease the wrath of the Lord, to reconcile the heart of the father to the son, and to restore the tribes of Jacob." (Ecclesiasticus 48:6-10).

            Although, the prophecies of what Elijah must accomplish coincide beautifully with what must be done by "Moshiach ben Ephrayim/Yosef, the Yair Davidiy writing stating that the last Elijah, instead will "stir up" Moshiach ben Yosef, makes a great deal of sense.

            Quote:
            The MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH in some sources is referred to as the �Messiah son [descendant] of Ephraim.� The MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH is associated with the saving of lives and the rescue of Israelites and in this he is assisted by Judah and by the MESSIAH SON OF DAVID. By way of Comment: The MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH, as we have seen, is connected with the ingathering of the exiles. America and Britain both in their own way in the past did helped the ingathering of the exiles of Judah to the Land of Israel. Our Prayers Are Needed �Kol HaTor� says [1.24] �With our deeds and prayers we shall come to the aid of MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH. Through our exertions with all our might of self-arousal [arousal from below as distinct from arousal from heaven] we will achieve the union of the two messiahs, the MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH and the MESSIAH SON OF DAVID, �the stick of Joseph and the stick of Judah� [mentioned by Ezekiel 37]. [The two sticks will join together just as Judah and Joseph will join together]......

            The First Redeemer [MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH] fights against Amalek with total warfare�[he fights against the forces of anti-Semitism]. This was the task of Joshua ben Nun who was [a forerunner and ancestor of] the Messiah Son of Joseph. Aroused by Elijah �Kol HaTor� says [2.71] �Behold I will send you my prophet Elijah�and he will return the hearts of the fathers to their sons� (Malachi 4). One of the tasks of Elijah is to arouse the spirit of the MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH.

            www.britam.org/messiah.html

            (Incidentally, the thought has crossed my mind that the Christian belief in TWO witnesses could fit perfectly with the Jewish belief in two Mashiachs. Mashiach ben Yosef might be the second of the two witnesses, if Elijah is one of the two witnesses, but then again, there is a real possibility that Mashiach ben Yosef is moreso perhaps the final human Zerubbabel type, who will finish the Third Temple).

            Quote:
            8 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 9 The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this house; his hands shall also finish it; and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto you.

            Zechariah 4:8,9

            Re: Response to Third Temple question by Linda Bedwell.


            Incidentally, this verse about Zerubbabel laying the foundation of the temple could fit perfectly with Asher Manthany's assertion that there cannot be any other building on the temple site, such as the Dome of the Rock. Perhaps it will be necessary to painstakingly deconstruct everything, every stone in the existing temple mount, right down to the foundation laid by Zerubbabel. Maybe the work done by Herod is considered non kosher by the Eternal. This act would also fulfill the words of Yeshua/Jesus. (Ofcourse, it is possible to reconstruct the remains of the existing Temple and Dome of the Rock somewhere else, which would fit perfectly with the assertion that there are on this planet, TWO ARCS OF THE COVENANT. According to very impressive sources a duplicate was made in the time of Solomon, the duplicate was placed in the Second Temple and the real Arc of the Covenant was taken to Ethiopia where it is being guarded right now by the remnants of the Falasha Jews, who are awaiting a Word from The Eternal to return the Arc to Jerusalem).



            Quote:
            Matthew 24

            1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down



            At this time there are still some stones standing on top of each other in the Temple Mount area and so this prophecy has not yet been completely fulfilled.

            Quote:
            15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

            Matthew 24:15

            This prophecy about the Abomination of Desolation, standing in the Holy Place fits perfectly with many Old Testament prophecies, that we Christians tend to completely misunderstand.

            Quote:
            21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries. 22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.

            Daniel 11:21,22

            This prophecy about the anti-Messiah taking the kingdom by flatteries, certainly would remind one of the modern art of "politics" and a modern prince of the covenant, could well be Mashiach ben Yosef, who is predicted to be killed in the eastern gate, by "Armilius."

            Quote:
            The immediate results of this war will be disastrous: Moshiach ben Yossef will be killed. This is described in the prophecy of Zechariah, who says of this tragedy that �they shall mourn him as one mourns for an only child.� (Zechariah 12:10).[12] His death will be followed by a period of great calamities. These new tribulations shall be the final test for Israel, and shortly thereafter Moshiach ben David shall come, avenge his death, resurrect him, and inaugurate the Messianic era of everlasting peace and bliss.

            www.moshiach.com/discover/tutorials/moshiach_ben_yossef.php

            Re: Response to Third Temple question by Linda Bedwell.


            Quote:
            28 Then shall he return into his land with great riches; and his heart shall be against the holy covenant; and he shall do exploits, and return to his own land.29 At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter.30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant. 31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

            Daniel 11:28-31

            In order for the "daily sacrifices" to be taken away, ofcourse they must first be being made, DAILY. At this moment, this part of the verse isn't being fulfilled, but I believe that it soon will be.

            Where are these sacrifices being made?

            Isaiah clinches this question by stating that this happens in "the temple."

            Quote:
            5 Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed. 6 A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the LORD that rendereth recompence to his enemies.

            Isaiah 66:5,6

            Like you Linda, while I was a member of the Worldwide Church of God, I really didn't think too much about the Third Temple but now that I have looked much more extensively into the Jewish prophecies, it seems very clear to me that
            1. sacrifices will be made daily
            2.those sacrifices will be stopped by Anti-Messiah
            3. those sacrifices are being made in the area of a restored Third Temple that perhaps incorporates nothing more from the existing temple area than the foundation that was laid at the time of Zerubbabel.

            If we Christians actually want Christ/Messiah back here on this earth then we had better help the Jews rebuild the Third Temple and begin daily sacrifices.

             

            http://p221.ezboard.com/frebuildthethirdtemplefrm2.showMessage?topicID=12.topic



            Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals


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            www.reluctant-messenger.com/main.htm






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          • russell
            after Dan separated from the family he did not have the benefit of the profits, So I am sure G-d sent some, to his people, different but to led him in the path
            Message 5 of 7 , May 15, 2004
            • 0 Attachment
              after Dan separated from the family he did not have the benefit of the profits, So I am sure G-d sent some, to his people, different but to led him in the path of righteousness. It is not lost tribes, but families, that have went astray, to be brought back as the holy sprit leads there souls.     Russell
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Princess
              Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 10:45 AM
              Subject: Re: [reluctant-messenger] Linda questions the rebuilding of the Third Temple.

              Yes Yashua is the tuth made manifest never a jew but a Hebrew coming for his lost tribes to carry them back to Israel .
              He Lives .
              In His Love ,
              Princess  

              Dennis Tate <tate4242@...> wrote:
              Response to Third Temple question by Linda Bedwell.
              Response from Linda:

              Quote:


              Then there are those who believe that:

              The Messiah will build His temple:

              Zech 6:12-13
              12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh YHWH of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and He shall grow up out of his place, and He shall build the temple of YHWH:

              13 Even He shall build the temple of YHWH; and He shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon His throne; and He shall be a priest upon His throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.
              KJV

              The Branch being:

              Jer 23:5-6
              5 Behold, the days come, saith YHWH, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.

              6 In His days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is His name whereby He shall be called, YHWH OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
              KJV


              They also believe that:

              Dan 11:44-45
              44 But tidings out of the east and out of th! e north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.

              45 And he (the antimessiah?) shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.
              KJV

              If you notice carefully, he plants the tabernacle of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain! This does not say he will plant his tabernacle in a temple standing on the mount. The Temple mount has already been signed over to the pope.

              So, does there have to be a temple standing for the Messiah to come? Does His coming depend on what we mortal humans do? Such ridiculousness!! YHWH will send His Son in spite of what we as humans do! We can repent and get right with YHWH...or not...but His kingdom WILL BE ESTABLISHED...at the appointed time, and nothing humans do or don't do will stop it!

              Linda

               

              Re: Response to Third Temple question by Linda Bedwell.


              Then there are those who believe that:

              Quote:
              The Messiah will build His temple:

              Zech 6:12-13
              12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh YHWH of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and He shall grow up out of his place, and He shall build the temple of YHWH:

              13 Even He shall build the temple of YHWH; and He shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon His throne; and He shall be a priest upon His throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.
              KJV



              Excellent question.

              I agree that Yeshua/Jesus is Moshiach ben David and that He is at this very time building a spiritual temple, the church, the people in whom He dwells through His Ruach ha Qodesh/The Holy Spirit. On the metaphorical level, Yeshua is fulfilling this verse at this very moment and behind the scenes it is Yeshua, sitting at the Right Hand of Power, who will raise up the final Elijah, the two witnesses, a modern Zerubbabel and fulfill the Jewisish prophecy that there will be a Moshiach ben Ephrayim/Yosef, who will regather the lost tribes of Israel and be instrumental in the rebuilding of the third temple previous to the coming of Moshiach ben DAvid, (who I believe is Yeshua/Jesus).

              I suspect that this "Branch" prophecy can also refer to Moshiach ben Ephrayim/Yosef, who possibly could be one and the same person as the last Elijah, if these verses from the Catholic Bible are inspired by the Holy Spirit.

              "! Thus was Elias magnified in his wondrous works. And who can glory like to thee?
              Who raisedst up a dead man from below, from the lot of death, by the word of the Lord God.
              Who broughtest down kings to destruction, and brokest easily their power in pieces, and the glorious from their bed.
              Who heardest judgment in Sina, and in Horeb the judgments of vengeance.
              Who anointedst kings to penance, and madest prophets successors after thee.
              Who was taken up in a whirlwind of fire, in a chariot of fiery horses.
              Who art registered in the judgments of times to appease the wrath of the Lord, to reconcile the heart of the father to the son, and to restore the tribes of Jacob." (Ecclesiasticus 48:6-10).

              Although, the prophecies of what Elijah must accomplish coincide beautifully with what must be done by "Moshiach ben Ephrayim/Yosef, the Yair Davidiy writing stating that the last Elijah, instead will "stir up" ! Moshiach ben Yosef, makes a great deal of sense.

              Quote:
              The MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH in some sources is referred to as the “Messiah son [descendant] of Ephraim.” The MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH is associated with the saving of lives and the rescue of Israelites and in this he is assisted by Judah and by the MESSIAH SON OF DAVID. By way of Comment: The MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH, as we have seen, is connected with the ingathering of the exiles. America and Britain both in their own way in the past did helped the ingathering of the exiles of Judah to the Land of Israel. Our Prayers Are Needed “Kol HaTor” says [1.24] “With our deeds and prayers we shall come to the aid of MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH. Through our exertions with all our might of self-arousal [arousal from below as distinct from arousal from heaven] we will achieve the union of the two messiahs, the MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH and the MESSIAH SON OF DAVID, ‘the stick of Joseph and the stick of Judah’ [mentioned by Ezekiel 37]. [The two sticks will join together just as Judah and Joseph will join together]......

              The First Redeemer [MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH] fights against Amalek with total warfare…[he fights against the forces of anti-Semitism]. This was the task of Joshua ben Nun who was [a forerunner and ancestor of] the Messiah Son of Joseph. Aroused by Elijah “Kol HaTor” says [2.71] “Behold I will send you my prophet Elijah…and he will return the hearts of the fathers to their sons” (Malachi 4). One of the tasks of Elijah is to arouse the spirit of the MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH.

              www.britam.org/messiah.html

              (Incidentally, the thought has crossed my mind that the Christian belief in TWO witnesses could fit perfectly with the Jewish belief in two Mashiachs. Mashiach ben Yosef might be the second of the two witnesses, if Elijah is one of the two witnesses, but then again, there is a real possibility that Mashiach ben Yosef is moreso perhaps the final human Zerubbabel type, who will finish the Third Temple).

              Quote:
              8 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 9 The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this house; his hands shall also finish it; and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto you.

              Zechariah 4:8,9

              Re: Response to Third Temple question by Linda Bedwell.


              Incidentally, this verse about Zerubbabel laying the foundation of the temple could fit perfectly with Asher Manthany's assertion that there cannot be any other building on the temple site, such as the Dome of the Rock. Perhaps it will be necessary to painstakingly deconstruct everything, every stone in the existing temple mount, right down to the foundation laid by Zerubbabel. Maybe the work done by Herod is considered non kosher by the Eternal. This act would also fulfill the words of Yeshua/Jesus. (Ofcourse, it is possible to reconstruct the remains of the existing Temple and Dome of the Rock somewhere else, which would fit perfectly with the assertion that there are on this planet, TWO ARCS OF THE COVENANT. According to very impressive sources a duplicate was made in the time of Solomon, the duplicate was placed in the Second Temple and the real Arc of the Covenant was taken to Ethiopia where it is being guarded right now by the remnants of the Falasha Jews, who are a! waiting a Word from The Eternal to return the Arc to Jerusalem).



              Quote:
              Matthew 24

              1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down



              At this time there are still some stones standing on top of each other in the Temple Mount area and so this prophecy has not yet been completely fulfilled.

              Quote:
              15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

              Matthew 24:15

              This prophecy about the Abomination of Desolation, standing in the Holy Place fits perfectly with many Old Testament prophecies, that we Christians tend to completely misunderstand.

              Quote:
              21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries. 22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.

              Daniel 11:21,22

              This prophecy about the anti-Messiah taking the kingdom by flatteries, certainly would remind one of the modern art of "politics" and a modern prince of the covenant, could well be Mashiach ben Yosef, who is predicted to be killed in the eastern gate, by "Armilius."

              Quote:
              The immediate results of this war will be disastrous: Moshiach ben Yossef will be killed. This is described in the prophecy of Zechariah, who says of this tragedy that “they shall mourn him as one mourns for an only child.” (Zechariah 12:10).[12] His death will be followed by a period of great calamities. These new tribulations shall be the final test for Israel, and shortly thereafter Moshiach ben David shall come, avenge his death, resurrect him, and inaugurate the Messianic era of everlasting peace and bliss.

              www.moshiach.com/discover/tutorials/moshiach_ben_yossef.php

              Re: Response to Third Temple question by Linda Bedwell.


              Quote:
              28 Then shall he return into his land with great riches; and his heart shall be against the holy covenant; and he shall do exploits, and return to his own land.29 At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter.30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant. 31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

              Daniel 11:28-31

              In order for the "daily sacrifices" to be taken away, ofcourse they must first be being made, DAILY. At this moment, this part of the verse isn't being fulfilled, but I believe that it soon will be.

              Where are these sacrifices being made?

              Isaiah clinches this question by stating that this happens in "the temple."

              Quote:
              5 Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed. 6 A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the LORD that rendereth recompence to his enemies.

              Isaiah 66:5,6

              Like you Linda, while I was a member of the Worldwide Church of God, I really didn't think too much about the Third Temple but now that I have looked much more extensively into the Jewish prophecies, it seems very clear to me that
              1. sacrifices will be made daily
              2.those sacrifices will be stopped by Anti-Messiah
              3. those sacrifices are being made in the area of a restored Third Temple that perhaps incorporates nothing more from the existing temple area than the foundation that was laid at the time of Zerubbabel.

              If we Christians actually want Christ/Messiah back here on this earth then we had better help the Jews rebuild the Third Temple and begin daily sacrifices.

               

              http://p221.ezboard.com/frebuildthethirdtemplefrm2.showMessage?topicID=12.topic



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            • pentti tervola
              Quick question : 1, I had my knowledge earlier that hebrew was a prime tong to all people, till tower of babel, when different tongs began. So is it that jews
              Message 6 of 7 , May 15, 2004
              • 0 Attachment
                Quick question :
                1, I had my knowledge earlier that hebrew was a prime tong to all people, till tower of babel, when different tongs began. 
                So is it that jews are the only ones which speak still hebrew ?
                 
                2. My knowledge is that Danmark is dan,s land, because they have a numerous references about it.  It may be, that portion of Dan is also in turkey ? 
                    Like I hears that many in US are Manassee related, and scandinavias  like finland, sweden and norway are different brothers.
                    I wonder if there are somekind of DNA test available for that ?  in history, many were separated during a prison time in babylonia, after tower of babel.
                 
                 Questions that botters .
                 
                 
                 
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: russell
                Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 12:00 PM
                Subject: Re: [reluctant-messenger] Linda questions the rebuilding of the Third Temple.

                after Dan separated from the family he did not have the benefit of the profits, So I am sure G-d sent some, to his people, different but to led him in the path of righteousness. It is not lost tribes, but families, that have went astray, to be brought back as the holy sprit leads there souls.     Russell
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Princess
                Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 10:45 AM
                Subject: Re: [reluctant-messenger] Linda questions the rebuilding of the Third Temple.

                Yes Yashua is the tuth made manifest never a jew but a Hebrew coming for his lost tribes to carry them back to Israel .
                He Lives .
                In His Love ,
                Princess  

                Dennis Tate <tate4242@...> wrote:
                Response to Third Temple question by Linda Bedwell.
                Response from Linda:

                Quote:


                Then there are those who believe that:

                The Messiah will build His temple:

                Zech 6:12-13
                12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh YHWH of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and He shall grow up out of his place, and He shall build the temple of YHWH:

                13 Even He shall build the temple of YHWH; and He shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon His throne; and He shall be a priest upon His throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.
                KJV

                The Branch being:

                Jer 23:5-6
                5 Behold, the days come, saith YHWH, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.

                6 In His days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is His name whereby He shall be called, YHWH OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
                KJV


                They also believe that:

                Dan 11:44-45
                44 But tidings out of the east and out of th! e north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.

                45 And he (the antimessiah?) shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.
                KJV

                If you notice carefully, he plants the tabernacle of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain! This does not say he will plant his tabernacle in a temple standing on the mount. The Temple mount has already been signed over to the pope.

                So, does there have to be a temple standing for the Messiah to come? Does His coming depend on what we mortal humans do? Such ridiculousness!! YHWH will send His Son in spite of what we as humans do! We can repent and get right with YHWH...or not...but His kingdom WILL BE ESTABLISHED...at the appointed time, and nothing humans do or don't do will stop it!

                Linda

                 

                Re: Response to Third Temple question by Linda Bedwell.


                Then there are those who believe that:

                Quote:
                The Messiah will build His temple:

                Zech 6:12-13
                12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh YHWH of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and He shall grow up out of his place, and He shall build the temple of YHWH:

                13 Even He shall build the temple of YHWH; and He shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon His throne; and He shall be a priest upon His throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.
                KJV



                Excellent question.

                I agree that Yeshua/Jesus is Moshiach ben David and that He is at this very time building a spiritual temple, the church, the people in whom He dwells through His Ruach ha Qodesh/The Holy Spirit. On the metaphorical level, Yeshua is fulfilling this verse at this very moment and behind the scenes it is Yeshua, sitting at the Right Hand of Power, who will raise up the final Elijah, the two witnesses, a modern Zerubbabel and fulfill the Jewisish prophecy that there will be a Moshiach ben Ephrayim/Yosef, who will regather the lost tribes of Israel and be instrumental in the rebuilding of the third temple previous to the coming of Moshiach ben DAvid, (who I believe is Yeshua/Jesus).

                I suspect that this "Branch" prophecy can also refer to Moshiach ben Ephrayim/Yosef, who possibly could be one and the same person as the last Elijah, if these verses from the Catholic Bible are inspired by the Holy Spirit.

                "! Thus was Elias magnified in his wondrous works. And who can glory like to thee?
                Who raisedst up a dead man from below, from the lot of death, by the word of the Lord God.
                Who broughtest down kings to destruction, and brokest easily their power in pieces, and the glorious from their bed.
                Who heardest judgment in Sina, and in Horeb the judgments of vengeance.
                Who anointedst kings to penance, and madest prophets successors after thee.
                Who was taken up in a whirlwind of fire, in a chariot of fiery horses.
                Who art registered in the judgments of times to appease the wrath of the Lord, to reconcile the heart of the father to the son, and to restore the tribes of Jacob." (Ecclesiasticus 48:6-10).

                Although, the prophecies of what Elijah must accomplish coincide beautifully with what must be done by "Moshiach ben Ephrayim/Yosef, the Yair Davidiy writing stating that the last Elijah, instead will "stir up" ! Moshiach ben Yosef, makes a great deal of sense.

                Quote:
                The MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH in some sources is referred to as the “Messiah son [descendant] of Ephraim.” The MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH is associated with the saving of lives and the rescue of Israelites and in this he is assisted by Judah and by the MESSIAH SON OF DAVID. By way of Comment: The MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH, as we have seen, is connected with the ingathering of the exiles. America and Britain both in their own way in the past did helped the ingathering of the exiles of Judah to the Land of Israel. Our Prayers Are Needed “Kol HaTor” says [1.24] “With our deeds and prayers we shall come to the aid of MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH. Through our exertions with all our might of self-arousal [arousal from below as distinct from arousal from heaven] we will achieve the union of the two messiahs, the MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH and the MESSIAH SON OF DAVID, ‘the stick of Joseph and the stick of Judah’ [mentioned by Ezekiel 37]. [The two sticks will join together just as Judah and Joseph will join together]......

                The First Redeemer [MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH] fights against Amalek with total warfare…[he fights against the forces of anti-Semitism]. This was the task of Joshua ben Nun who was [a forerunner and ancestor of] the Messiah Son of Joseph. Aroused by Elijah “Kol HaTor” says [2.71] “Behold I will send you my prophet Elijah…and he will return the hearts of the fathers to their sons” (Malachi 4). One of the tasks of Elijah is to arouse the spirit of the MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH.

                www.britam.org/messiah.html

                (Incidentally, the thought has crossed my mind that the Christian belief in TWO witnesses could fit perfectly with the Jewish belief in two Mashiachs. Mashiach ben Yosef might be the second of the two witnesses, if Elijah is one of the two witnesses, but then again, there is a real possibility that Mashiach ben Yosef is moreso perhaps the final human Zerubbabel type, who will finish the Third Temple).

                Quote:
                8 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 9 The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this house; his hands shall also finish it; and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto you.

                Zechariah 4:8,9

                Re: Response to Third Temple question by Linda Bedwell.


                Incidentally, this verse about Zerubbabel laying the foundation of the temple could fit perfectly with Asher Manthany's assertion that there cannot be any other building on the temple site, such as the Dome of the Rock. Perhaps it will be necessary to painstakingly deconstruct everything, every stone in the existing temple mount, right down to the foundation laid by Zerubbabel. Maybe the work done by Herod is considered non kosher by the Eternal. This act would also fulfill the words of Yeshua/Jesus. (Ofcourse, it is possible to reconstruct the remains of the existing Temple and Dome of the Rock somewhere else, which would fit perfectly with the assertion that there are on this planet, TWO ARCS OF THE COVENANT. According to very impressive sources a duplicate was made in the time of Solomon, the duplicate was placed in the Second Temple and the real Arc of the Covenant was taken to Ethiopia where it is being guarded right now by the remnants of the Falasha Jews, who are a! waiting a Word from The Eternal to return the Arc to Jerusalem).



                Quote:
                Matthew 24

                1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down



                At this time there are still some stones standing on top of each other in the Temple Mount area and so this prophecy has not yet been completely fulfilled.

                Quote:
                15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

                Matthew 24:15

                This prophecy about the Abomination of Desolation, standing in the Holy Place fits perfectly with many Old Testament prophecies, that we Christians tend to completely misunderstand.

                Quote:
                21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries. 22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.

                Daniel 11:21,22

                This prophecy about the anti-Messiah taking the kingdom by flatteries, certainly would remind one of the modern art of "politics" and a modern prince of the covenant, could well be Mashiach ben Yosef, who is predicted to be killed in the eastern gate, by "Armilius."

                Quote:
                The immediate results of this war will be disastrous: Moshiach ben Yossef will be killed. This is described in the prophecy of Zechariah, who says of this tragedy that “they shall mourn him as one mourns for an only child.” (Zechariah 12:10).[12] His death will be followed by a period of great calamities. These new tribulations shall be the final test for Israel, and shortly thereafter Moshiach ben David shall come, avenge his death, resurrect him, and inaugurate the Messianic era of everlasting peace and bliss.

                www.moshiach.com/discover/tutorials/moshiach_ben_yossef.php

                Re: Response to Third Temple question by Linda Bedwell.


                Quote:
                28 Then shall he return into his land with great riches; and his heart shall be against the holy covenant; and he shall do exploits, and return to his own land.29 At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter.30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant. 31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

                Daniel 11:28-31

                In order for the "daily sacrifices" to be taken away, ofcourse they must first be being made, DAILY. At this moment, this part of the verse isn't being fulfilled, but I believe that it soon will be.

                Where are these sacrifices being made?

                Isaiah clinches this question by stating that this happens in "the temple."

                Quote:
                5 Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed. 6 A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the LORD that rendereth recompence to his enemies.

                Isaiah 66:5,6

                Like you Linda, while I was a member of the Worldwide Church of God, I really didn't think too much about the Third Temple but now that I have looked much more extensively into the Jewish prophecies, it seems very clear to me that
                1. sacrifices will be made daily
                2.those sacrifices will be stopped by Anti-Messiah
                3. those sacrifices are being made in the area of a restored Third Temple that perhaps incorporates nothing more from the existing temple area than the foundation that was laid at the time of Zerubbabel.

                If we Christians actually want Christ/Messiah back here on this earth then we had better help the Jews rebuild the Third Temple and begin daily sacrifices.

                 

                http://p221.ezboard.com/frebuildthethirdtemplefrm2.showMessage?topicID=12.topic



                Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals


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                Visit the website at :
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              • russell
                I have spent many hours studying the abecedary of langue. I am currently working on a book, on the rules of prayer. I do think as Martin Luther said Hebrew
                Message 7 of 7 , May 15, 2004
                • 0 Attachment
                  I have spent many hours studying the abecedary of langue. I am currently working on a book, on the rules of prayer. I do think as Martin Luther said ''Hebrew is the spring that language spring from, Latin is the stream, Greek is the river into the ocean. '' As for the lost tribes, Grace is the blood covering for sin.Under the blood sacrifice, grace covers sin, that you do not have knowledge of, Those people who have chosen not to seek this grace cannot be part of it . many people think that G-d will force the lost,tribes,families,or people to come to him,but that is not the corrector of G-d. We are free moral agents so G-d will not go get any lost or forgotten people.It is not just blood. That night in Egypt Moses gave direct orders on blood covering their was no grace for those who did not obey Jew or gentile. The reason we follow the everlasting G-d is to sanctify ourselves and our children. Those people who chose not to fallow fell behind. what if Hitler was of these lost tribes,does he deserve an equal share of the love of the father, Cain killed his brother, to quote me [poetry.com  lurten russell] ''your brothers blood crys from his grave.
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 4:30 PM
                  Subject: Re: [reluctant-messenger] Linda questions the rebuilding of the Third Temple.

                  Quick question :
                  1, I had my knowledge earlier that hebrew was a prime tong to all people, till tower of babel, when different tongs began. 
                  So is it that jews are the only ones which speak still hebrew ?
                   
                  2. My knowledge is that Danmark is dan,s land, because they have a numerous references about it.  It may be, that portion of Dan is also in turkey ? 
                      Like I hears that many in US are Manassee related, and scandinavias  like finland, sweden and norway are different brothers.
                      I wonder if there are somekind of DNA test available for that ?  in history, many were separated during a prison time in babylonia, after tower of babel.
                   
                   Questions that botters .
                   
                   
                   
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: russell
                  Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 12:00 PM
                  Subject: Re: [reluctant-messenger] Linda questions the rebuilding of the Third Temple.

                  after Dan separated from the family he did not have the benefit of the profits, So I am sure G-d sent some, to his people, different but to led him in the path of righteousness. It is not lost tribes, but families, that have went astray, to be brought back as the holy sprit leads there souls.     Russell
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Princess
                  Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 10:45 AM
                  Subject: Re: [reluctant-messenger] Linda questions the rebuilding of the Third Temple.

                  Yes Yashua is the tuth made manifest never a jew but a Hebrew coming for his lost tribes to carry them back to Israel .
                  He Lives .
                  In His Love ,
                  Princess  

                  Dennis Tate <tate4242@...> wrote:
                  Response to Third Temple question by Linda Bedwell.
                  Response from Linda:

                  Quote:


                  Then there are those who believe that:

                  The Messiah will build His temple:

                  Zech 6:12-13
                  12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh YHWH of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and He shall grow up out of his place, and He shall build the temple of YHWH:

                  13 Even He shall build the temple of YHWH; and He shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon His throne; and He shall be a priest upon His throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.
                  KJV

                  The Branch being:

                  Jer 23:5-6
                  5 Behold, the days come, saith YHWH, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.

                  6 In His days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is His name whereby He shall be called, YHWH OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
                  KJV


                  They also believe that:

                  Dan 11:44-45
                  44 But tidings out of the east and out of th! e north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.

                  45 And he (the antimessiah?) shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.
                  KJV

                  If you notice carefully, he plants the tabernacle of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain! This does not say he will plant his tabernacle in a temple standing on the mount. The Temple mount has already been signed over to the pope.

                  So, does there have to be a temple standing for the Messiah to come? Does His coming depend on what we mortal humans do? Such ridiculousness!! YHWH will send His Son in spite of what we as humans do! We can repent and get right with YHWH...or not...but His kingdom WILL BE ESTABLISHED...at the appointed time, and nothing humans do or don't do will stop it!

                  Linda

                   

                  Re: Response to Third Temple question by Linda Bedwell.


                  Then there are those who believe that:

                  Quote:
                  The Messiah will build His temple:

                  Zech 6:12-13
                  12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh YHWH of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and He shall grow up out of his place, and He shall build the temple of YHWH:

                  13 Even He shall build the temple of YHWH; and He shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon His throne; and He shall be a priest upon His throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.
                  KJV



                  Excellent question.

                  I agree that Yeshua/Jesus is Moshiach ben David and that He is at this very time building a spiritual temple, the church, the people in whom He dwells through His Ruach ha Qodesh/The Holy Spirit. On the metaphorical level, Yeshua is fulfilling this verse at this very moment and behind the scenes it is Yeshua, sitting at the Right Hand of Power, who will raise up the final Elijah, the two witnesses, a modern Zerubbabel and fulfill the Jewisish prophecy that there will be a Moshiach ben Ephrayim/Yosef, who will regather the lost tribes of Israel and be instrumental in the rebuilding of the third temple previous to the coming of Moshiach ben DAvid, (who I believe is Yeshua/Jesus).

                  I suspect that this "Branch" prophecy can also refer to Moshiach ben Ephrayim/Yosef, who possibly could be one and the same person as the last Elijah, if these verses from the Catholic Bible are inspired by the Holy Spirit.

                  "! Thus was Elias magnified in his wondrous works. And who can glory like to thee?
                  Who raisedst up a dead man from below, from the lot of death, by the word of the Lord God.
                  Who broughtest down kings to destruction, and brokest easily their power in pieces, and the glorious from their bed.
                  Who heardest judgment in Sina, and in Horeb the judgments of vengeance.
                  Who anointedst kings to penance, and madest prophets successors after thee.
                  Who was taken up in a whirlwind of fire, in a chariot of fiery horses.
                  Who art registered in the judgments of times to appease the wrath of the Lord, to reconcile the heart of the father to the son, and to restore the tribes of Jacob." (Ecclesiasticus 48:6-10).

                  Although, the prophecies of what Elijah must accomplish coincide beautifully with what must be done by "Moshiach ben Ephrayim/Yosef, the Yair Davidiy writing stating that the last Elijah, instead will "stir up" ! Moshiach ben Yosef, makes a great deal of sense.

                  Quote:
                  The MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH in some sources is referred to as the “Messiah son [descendant] of Ephraim.” The MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH is associated with the saving of lives and the rescue of Israelites and in this he is assisted by Judah and by the MESSIAH SON OF DAVID. By way of Comment: The MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH, as we have seen, is connected with the ingathering of the exiles. America and Britain both in their own way in the past did helped the ingathering of the exiles of Judah to the Land of Israel. Our Prayers Are Needed “Kol HaTor” says [1.24] “With our deeds and prayers we shall come to the aid of MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH. Through our exertions with all our might of self-arousal [arousal from below as distinct from arousal from heaven] we will achieve the union of the two messiahs, the MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH and the MESSIAH SON OF DAVID, ‘the stick of Joseph and the stick of Judah’ [mentioned by Ezekiel 37]. [The two sticks will join together just as Judah and Joseph will join together]......

                  The First Redeemer [MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH] fights against Amalek with total warfare…[he fights against the forces of anti-Semitism]. This was the task of Joshua ben Nun who was [a forerunner and ancestor of] the Messiah Son of Joseph. Aroused by Elijah “Kol HaTor” says [2.71] “Behold I will send you my prophet Elijah…and he will return the hearts of the fathers to their sons” (Malachi 4). One of the tasks of Elijah is to arouse the spirit of the MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH.

                  www.britam.org/messiah.html

                  (Incidentally, the thought has crossed my mind that the Christian belief in TWO witnesses could fit perfectly with the Jewish belief in two Mashiachs. Mashiach ben Yosef might be the second of the two witnesses, if Elijah is one of the two witnesses, but then again, there is a real possibility that Mashiach ben Yosef is moreso perhaps the final human Zerubbabel type, who will finish the Third Temple).

                  Quote:
                  8 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 9 The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this house; his hands shall also finish it; and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto you.

                  Zechariah 4:8,9

                  Re: Response to Third Temple question by Linda Bedwell.


                  Incidentally, this verse about Zerubbabel laying the foundation of the temple could fit perfectly with Asher Manthany's assertion that there cannot be any other building on the temple site, such as the Dome of the Rock. Perhaps it will be necessary to painstakingly deconstruct everything, every stone in the existing temple mount, right down to the foundation laid by Zerubbabel. Maybe the work done by Herod is considered non kosher by the Eternal. This act would also fulfill the words of Yeshua/Jesus. (Ofcourse, it is possible to reconstruct the remains of the existing Temple and Dome of the Rock somewhere else, which would fit perfectly with the assertion that there are on this planet, TWO ARCS OF THE COVENANT. According to very impressive sources a duplicate was made in the time of Solomon, the duplicate was placed in the Second Temple and the real Arc of the Covenant was taken to Ethiopia where it is being guarded right now by the remnants of the Falasha Jews, who are a! waiting a Word from The Eternal to return the Arc to Jerusalem).



                  Quote:
                  Matthew 24

                  1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down



                  At this time there are still some stones standing on top of each other in the Temple Mount area and so this prophecy has not yet been completely fulfilled.

                  Quote:
                  15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

                  Matthew 24:15

                  This prophecy about the Abomination of Desolation, standing in the Holy Place fits perfectly with many Old Testament prophecies, that we Christians tend to completely misunderstand.

                  Quote:
                  21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries. 22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.

                  Daniel 11:21,22

                  This prophecy about the anti-Messiah taking the kingdom by flatteries, certainly would remind one of the modern art of "politics" and a modern prince of the covenant, could well be Mashiach ben Yosef, who is predicted to be killed in the eastern gate, by "Armilius."

                  Quote:
                  The immediate results of this war will be disastrous: Moshiach ben Yossef will be killed. This is described in the prophecy of Zechariah, who says of this tragedy that “they shall mourn him as one mourns for an only child.” (Zechariah 12:10).[12] His death will be followed by a period of great calamities. These new tribulations shall be the final test for Israel, and shortly thereafter Moshiach ben David shall come, avenge his death, resurrect him, and inaugurate the Messianic era of everlasting peace and bliss.

                  www.moshiach.com/discover/tutorials/moshiach_ben_yossef.php

                  Re: Response to Third Temple question by Linda Bedwell.


                  Quote:
                  28 Then shall he return into his land with great riches; and his heart shall be against the holy covenant; and he shall do exploits, and return to his own land.29 At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter.30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant. 31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

                  Daniel 11:28-31

                  In order for the "daily sacrifices" to be taken away, ofcourse they must first be being made, DAILY. At this moment, this part of the verse isn't being fulfilled, but I believe that it soon will be.

                  Where are these sacrifices being made?

                  Isaiah clinches this question by stating that this happens in "the temple."

                  Quote:
                  5 Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed. 6 A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the LORD that rendereth recompence to his enemies.

                  Isaiah 66:5,6

                  Like you Linda, while I was a member of the Worldwide Church of God, I really didn't think too much about the Third Temple but now that I have looked much more extensively into the Jewish prophecies, it seems very clear to me that
                  1. sacrifices will be made daily
                  2.those sacrifices will be stopped by Anti-Messiah
                  3. those sacrifices are being made in the area of a restored Third Temple that perhaps incorporates nothing more from the existing temple area than the foundation that was laid at the time of Zerubbabel.

                  If we Christians actually want Christ/Messiah back here on this earth then we had better help the Jews rebuild the Third Temple and begin daily sacrifices.

                   

                  http://p221.ezboard.com/frebuildthethirdtemplefrm2.showMessage?topicID=12.topic



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