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Re: I have two questions

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  • henriviiiu
    You have to keep in mind man was made on the sixth day while Adam was formed on the 8th day and given aliving soul. These 2 time periods were 100,000 s of yrs
    Message 1 of 111 , Oct 31, 2009
      You have to keep in mind man was made on the sixth day while Adam was formed on the 8th day and given aliving soul. These 2 time periods were 100,000's of yrs if not millions of yrs a part. Adam was needed to tend the garden because man had not evoled enough to know agriculture. Pre- Adam man were hunter / gatherers and God inserted Adam to speed up the progress of Man. Between 7-10 thousand yrs ago mankind recieved a spark they started farming which lead to building of cities and knowage increased. History brings science and the Bible into harmony. Before Adam man was little more then a hairless Ape Adam brought man out of this early evolution period.

      --- In reluctant-messenger@yahoogroups.com, "NamVetArmy70" <deanf54@...> wrote:
      >
      > namvetarmy,
      > In Gen. the only account given of God's creation of man is the one where They created man physical. Can you show me scripture of the account of God creating man spiritual? Another in the eyes of God man is made up of the male and the female. It was Adam that chose to call himself man and God simple went along with it. The Gen. account clearly shows that God created man only in Their image and that They have not yet created man in Their likeness and itm is made clear that Their image and Their likeness are two different things.
      > Please show me where you get your belief that God created man spiritual as what you say is not based on the scripture you give.
      >
      > --- In reluctant-messenger@yahoogroups.com, anthony deisingh <td300360@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Namvetarmy70,
      > >  
      > > If you look at Genesis you will see that it is only after Adam and Eve were deceived by the serpent that they were or became clothed. Do you think that they were clothed with fig leaves?  They were clothed with the skins of animal which is this flesh. We were cast into flesh, our spirits ans souls are embodied by flesh, these are our tombs.
      > >
      > > --- On Fri, 10/30/09, NamVetArmy70 <deanf54@> wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > From: NamVetArmy70 <deanf54@>
      > > Subject: [reluctant-messenger] Re: I have two questions
      > > To: reluctant-messenger@yahoogroups.com
      > > Date: Friday, October 30, 2009, 2:16 AM
      > >
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      > >  
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      > > namvetarmy,
      > > Anthony will you please post scripture to suppose what you say about man being created spirit then being made flesh after he sinned. I see clear that God states that He created man from the dust of the ground, Gen 2:7 and then He breathed the breath of life into him, the spirit and man became a living soul. First, man was created physical. Second, God breathed the breath of life into him, placed the spirit in him. Third, man became a living soul. No where in all this does God say He created man as a spirit. We are told that the Gods said, "Let Us create man in Our likeness and after Our image." Then we are told that the Gods created man in Their image, Gen 1:26-27, but They do not say that They created man in Their likeness yet. As I stated before we will not be created in Their likeness until we out off this mortal flesh and become Spirit which will take place when we are raised up to Jesus in the air and we shall all be changed in a moment in the
      > > twinkling of an eye.
      > >
      > > --- In reluctant-messenger @yahoogroups. com, anthony deisingh <td300360@ .> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > We were spirit, it is only after the first transgression that man was clothed with flesh.
      > > >  
      > > > Anthony
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > --- On Sun, 10/25/09, NamVetArmy70 <deanf54@ > wrote:
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > From: NamVetArmy70 <deanf54@ >
      > > > Subject: [reluctant-messenge r] Re: I have two questions
      > > > To: reluctant-messenger @yahoogroups. com
      > > > Date: Sunday, October 25, 2009, 8:48 PM
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >  
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Namvetarmy,
      > > > If the image of God is spirit then what is His likeness. He said, "Let UUs create man in Our image and after Our," "So in His image created He him," So man at this point is only created in God's image. No were does God state that He has of yet created man in His likeness. Now if God's Image is spirit then and we are created in His image then why are we physical and not spiritual?
      > > >
      > > > --- In reluctant-messenger @yahoogroups. com, "earth_entity" <tommeehan@ ..> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In reluctant-messenger @yahoogroups. com, "NamVetArmy70" <deanf54@> wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > First question: Who or what does the bible say is the Bride of Jesus?
      > > > > > Second question: What is God's image?
      > > > > >first question; why care, this knowledge will not bring you Freedom..
      > > > > second question; the image of God is Spirit, the same Spirit as us.. We and the Father are One......... ....namaste, thomas
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    • frankallisone
      ... And to you also. ... Not cross, but cup... ... The Lord here was praying in Gethsemane, and he was referring to the cup of martyrdom. Still, cup, not
      Message 111 of 111 , Nov 25, 2009
        --- In reluctant-messenger@yahoogroups.com, "latuwr" <latuwr@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        > Hi Frankallisone,
        >
        > Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

        And to you also.

        > Here is your question:
        >
        > "Let's simplify the matter: Where in the Gospels does Messiah ever
        > say that those who believe in him are also crucified and die with
        > him on his cross?"
        >
        > OK, Let's do! In the Gospels, Messiah speaks of a certain cup
        > given to HIM by Our Heavenly Father to drink:
        >
        > John 18:11
        > 11 Then said Yahushua unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the
        > sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?

        Not cross, but cup...

        > Prior to the above incident, Messiah prayed in this manner
        > concerning this cup:
        >
        > Luke 22:42
        > 42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me:
        > nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

        The Lord here was praying in Gethsemane, and he was referring to the cup of martyrdom. Still, cup, not cross.

        > This is not an easy cup to drink. Prior to the drinking of this
        > cup, Messiah did something rather amazing, did HE not? Messiah
        > shared this cup with HIS Disciples in making a New Covenant with
        > them:
        >
        > Matthew 26:27-28
        > 27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them,
        > saying, Drink ye all of it; 28 For this is my blood of the new
        > testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
        > (Cessation of sins)

        The cup of the blood of the new covenant is different from the cup of martyrdom. Still, no crosses, but two cups have been mentioned.

        It means remission of sins. Why would you change to cessation? We cannot have cessation of sins until we die; we have to persevere until the very end. But past sins can be subjected to remission.

        > What does the sharing of HIS Cup mean for HIS Disciples?
        >
        > Prior to this sharing, Messiah Yahushua pointedly informed HIS
        > Disciples that they indeed would drink of HIS CUP. Notice that it
        > is HIS CUP and not their cup, i.e. HIS Cross and not their cross:

        His cup,yes. The cup of the blood of the new covenant. Not any cross.

        > Matthew 20:22-23
        > 22 But Yahushua answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye
        > able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized
        > with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are
        > able. 23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup,
        > and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to
        > sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it
        > shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.

        And they all drank from his cup of martyrdom, indeed, in various ways. But were they all crucified, much more on the Lord's cross? No.

        > The content of this special cup is the shed blood of the New
        > Covenant.

        You know it. But why would you now insist that this cup was his cross?

        > If we are commanded to drink this shed blood, does this
        > drinking not indicate our participation in the suffering and death
        > of Messiah Yahushua? Absolutely! And I say this not the least bit
        > apologetically!

        If you are commanded. But most likely, you will be commanded to reign, to govern, to build a city on a hill, to so let your light shine that others may see your good works and glorify the Father in heaven, not to give your jewels to the dogs and your jewels to the pigs, and to live God with a life of reverent worship to God and loving service to your human brothers. Is it not the Messiah is coming to reign? So, most likely, he will not command you to drink the cup of martyrdom, but you will partake of his glory.

        > Paul teaches about the drinking of Messiah's CUP in this manner:
        >
        > 1 Corinthians 11:26
        > 26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do
        > shew YAHWEH'S death till he come.

        The phrase "shew YAHMEH'S death" is another erroneous melodrama from Paul. From what version did you quote it? It should be "proclaim the Lord's death", I think, in most versions. Thus:

        1 Cor 11:26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes.

        Paul's writings are indeed difficult to understand...

        > Melodramatic peroration or not, this makes perfect sense to me.
        > The New Covenant is a Covenant of Blood that is shed through the
        > cutting off of the flesh that occurs through the Cross of Messiah.

        So that the cup of the New Covenant and the Cross become interchangeable? That's overstretching. And, the cup of martyrdom is closer to the Cross than the cup of the New Covenant. The latter cup was left at the scene of the the Last Supper. It was a different cup in Gethsemane: cup of martyrdom.

        > All those that properly participate in this spiritual circumcision
        > put to death their sinful flesh through their firm belief in the
        > Cross of Messiah.

        Huh?! It may be Paul's teaching, but I doubt if the Messiah taught the same thing. Where in the Gospels does Messiah teach that?

        > This belief is based on the unity of Messiah
        > with those that believe in HIM, and not the disunity of
        > substitution.

        Substitution was allowed by God in order for the Gospel to be easily understandable by humanity's evolving mind. It is not a sign of disunity, but a provision of mercy: God in his mercy accepted the animal substitute. The book of Leviticus is heavy on this matter.

        > This belief is based upon sharing responsibility and
        > not upon avoiding consequences as do all those that believe in
        > substitutionalism.

        Responsibility for what? Consequences such as what?

        > Do you want a drink?

        Please, no. Not with murky waters rationed by deluded false teachers...

        > Thanking you in advance for your reply, I am,

        Thank you, too.

        Shalom,

        Frank

        >
        > Sincerely, Latuwr
        >
        >
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