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RE: [regsaudioforum] copyright

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  • Richard Tuck
    Maybe if the recording engineers were always credited the sloppy ones might be motivated to do a better job? Richard _____ From: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
    Message 1 of 14 , Mar 1, 2006
      Maybe if the recording engineers were always credited the sloppy ones might be motivated to do a better job?
       
      Richard


      From: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of regtas43
      Sent: 01 March 2006 01:47
      To: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [regsaudioforum] copyright



      Copyright for recordings usually belongs to the label, or less often
      to the performers. For example, Vox probably owns the recordings
      Aubort and Nickrenz did for them. For sure, RCA(now BMG) owns the
      rights to the Mohr/Layton recordings. The usual arrangement is that
      the record label pays royalties to the performers, so that say the
      Chicago Symphony(and Reiner most likely) got money per unit sales for
      the Chicago Symphony/Reiner/Mohr and Layton Scheherazade. The
      engineers and producers are just paid a salary(unless as some small
      labels, they are also the owner or part owner  of the company, in
      which they are likely to own the copyright of the recordings--but by
      virtue of owning the company!.)

      REG

      PS I was grateful for the movies' attention to credits on Master and
      Commander: the Far Side of the World.
      You have to wait a while, but down there somewhere near Best Boy
      Electric in the end credits is
      "Russell Crowe's Violin Instructors
      Zoe Black, Robert E. Greene, Richard Tognetti"
      I liked it!




    • Richard Tuck
      I had a chat with my IP Attorney about the copyright situation in recorded music. Forgetting for a moment employment or artists contracts, then if engineer A
      Message 2 of 14 , Mar 1, 2006
        I had a chat with my IP Attorney about the copyright situation in recorded music. 
         
        Forgetting for a moment employment or artists contracts, then if engineer A records artist B singing a song by let's say Bach to avoid the complication of the composers copyrights.  Then Artist B owns the copyright in the performance, which is of course an ephemeral thing, and the engineer A owns the copyright in the recording.   A's and B's right are often assigned by performing, freelance recording or employment contracts in exchange for considerations.  However, should a bootlegger C make a clandestine recording of the performance they will be infringing the B's copyright in the performance.
         
        Now much the same is true in movies but convention has it that even the leading actors violin teacher (to quote Robert's example) and possibly even the supplier of strings and rosin gets a mention.
         
        Two different industries, two different conventions.
         
        Richard
         
         
        PS I'll enquire of Tony if he knows how this situation came about.


        From: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Tuck
        Sent: 01 March 2006 09:06
        To: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [regsaudioforum] copyright

        Maybe if the recording engineers were always credited the sloppy ones might be motivated to do a better job?
         
        Richard


        From: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of regtas43
        Sent: 01 March 2006 01:47
        To: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [regsaudioforum] copyright



        Copyright for recordings usually belongs to the label, or less often
        to the performers. For example, Vox probably owns the recordings
        Aubort and Nickrenz did for them. For sure, RCA(now BMG) owns the
        rights to the Mohr/Layton recordings. The usual arrangement is that
        the record label pays royalties to the performers, so that say the
        Chicago Symphony(and Reiner most likely) got money per unit sales for
        the Chicago Symphony/Reiner/Mohr and Layton Scheherazade. The
        engineers and producers are just paid a salary(unless as some small
        labels, they are also the owner or part owner  of the company, in
        which they are likely to own the copyright of the recordings--but by
        virtue of owning the company!.)

        REG

        PS I was grateful for the movies' attention to credits on Master and
        Commander: the Far Side of the World.
        You have to wait a while, but down there somewhere near Best Boy
        Electric in the end credits is
        "Russell Crowe's Violin Instructors
        Zoe Black, Robert E. Greene, Richard Tognetti"
        I liked it!




      • regtas43
        I am not a lawyer, but I find this hard to understand. I am quite sure that RCA owns the Living Stereos, not Mohr and Layton(or their estates). Or is that what
        Message 3 of 14 , Mar 1, 2006
          I am not a lawyer, but I find this hard to understand. I am quite
          sure that RCA owns the Living Stereos, not Mohr and Layton(or their
          estates). Or is that what "forgetting employment" refers to? But
          almost ALL recordings are made with the engineers as employees(except
          very small labels where engineer and label owner are the same person).

          REG

          -- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Tuck" <rtuck@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > I had a chat with my IP Attorney about the copyright situation in
          recorded
          > music.
          >
          > Forgetting for a moment employment or artists contracts, then if
          engineer A
          > records artist B singing a song by let's say Bach to avoid the
          complication
          > of the composers copyrights. Then Artist B owns the copyright in
          the
          > performance, which is of course an ephemeral thing, and the
          engineer A owns
          > the copyright in the recording. A's and B's right are often
          assigned by
          > performing, freelance recording or employment contracts in exchange
          for
          > considerations. However, should a bootlegger C make a clandestine
          recording
          > of the performance they will be infringing the B's copyright in the
          > performance.
          >
          > Now much the same is true in movies but convention has it that even
          the
          > leading actors violin teacher (to quote Robert's example) and
          possibly even
          > the supplier of strings and rosin gets a mention.
          >
          > Two different industries, two different conventions.
          >
          > Richard
          >
          >
          > PS I'll enquire of Tony if he knows how this situation came about.
          >
          > _____
          >
          > From: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
          [mailto:regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com]
          > On Behalf Of Richard Tuck
          > Sent: 01 March 2006 09:06
          > To: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: RE: [regsaudioforum] copyright
          >
          >
          > Maybe if the recording engineers were always credited the sloppy
          ones might
          > be motivated to do a better job?
          >
          > Richard
          >
          > _____
          >
          > From: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
          [mailto:regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com]
          > On Behalf Of regtas43
          > Sent: 01 March 2006 01:47
          > To: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [regsaudioforum] copyright
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Copyright for recordings usually belongs to the label, or less
          often
          > to the performers. For example, Vox probably owns the recordings
          > Aubort and Nickrenz did for them. For sure, RCA(now BMG) owns the
          > rights to the Mohr/Layton recordings. The usual arrangement is that
          > the record label pays royalties to the performers, so that say the
          > Chicago Symphony(and Reiner most likely) got money per unit sales
          for
          > the Chicago Symphony/Reiner/Mohr and Layton Scheherazade. The
          > engineers and producers are just paid a salary(unless as some small
          > labels, they are also the owner or part owner of the company, in
          > which they are likely to own the copyright of the recordings--but
          by
          > virtue of owning the company!.)
          >
          > REG
          >
          > PS I was grateful for the movies' attention to credits on Master
          and
          > Commander: the Far Side of the World.
          > You have to wait a while, but down there somewhere near Best Boy
          > Electric in the end credits is
          > "Russell Crowe's Violin Instructors
          > Zoe Black, Robert E. Greene, Richard Tognetti"
          > I liked it!
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > SPONSORED LINKS
          > Electronics
          > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
          t=ms&k=Electronics+hobby&w1=Electronics+hobby&
          >
          w2=Audio+electronics&w3=Craft+hobby&w4=Hobby+and+craft+supply&w5=Elect
          ronics
          > &w6=Hobby&c=6&s=119&.sig=TKg76BKI9XdSGbSLJYNBZQ> hobby Audio
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          t=ms&k=Audio+electronics&w1=Electronics+hobby&
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          &w6=Ho
          > bby&c=6&s=119&.sig=AOnIIY1eaZlt4vTAfqIIoA> hobby
          > Hobby
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          t=ms&k=Hobby+and+craft+supply&w1=Electronics+h
          >
          obby&w2=Audio+electronics&w3=Craft+hobby&w4=Hobby+and+craft+supply&w5=
          Electr
          > onics&w6=Hobby&c=6&s=119&.sig=BEdwm_YLDu2BKKSpR8xFKw> and craft
          supply
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          t=ms&k=Electronics&w1=Electronics+hobby&w2=Aud
          >
          io+electronics&w3=Craft+hobby&w4=Hobby+and+craft+supply&w5=Electronics
          &w6=Ho
          > bby&c=6&s=119&.sig=sfeNDSqwxnvuRQCQf5mjuw> Hobby
          > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
          t=ms&k=Hobby&w1=Electronics+hobby&w2=Audio+ele
          >
          ctronics&w3=Craft+hobby&w4=Hobby+and+craft+supply&w5=Electronics&w6=Ho
          bby&c=
          > 6&s=119&.sig=CPjSBupErSVA3z1TejHFNg>
          >
          > _____
          >
          > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
          >
          >
          >
          > * Visit your group "regsaudioforum
          > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/regsaudioforum> " on the web.
          >
          >
          > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > regsaudioforum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > <mailto:regsaudioforum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
          subject=Unsubscribe>
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          > _____
          >
        • Richard Tuck
          Hi Robert What I described the simplest situation in the absence of contracts - copyright just happens when somebody creates a work of art either a performance
          Message 4 of 14 , Mar 1, 2006
            Hi Robert
             
            What I described the simplest situation in the absence of contracts - copyright just happens when somebody creates a work of art either a performance or a recording e.g. I pop around to chez REG and record you playing some Bach on the violin.  I end up with the copyright in the recording and you own the copyright in your performance.
             
            But in the real world most of the time both the artist and recording engineers with have contracts either as employee or as freelancers and in these contracts they will assign their rights in their work to whoever pays them.
            The same thing happens in the movies BUT they still get to go on the credits.
             
            Richard


            From: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of regtas43
            Sent: 01 March 2006 18:52
            To: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [regsaudioforum] Re: copyright

            I am not a lawyer, but I find this hard to understand. I am quite
            sure that RCA owns the Living Stereos, not Mohr and Layton(or their
            estates). Or is that what "forgetting employment" refers to? But
            almost ALL recordings are made with the engineers as employees(except
            very small labels where engineer and label owner are the same person).

            REG

            -- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Tuck" <rtuck@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > I had a chat with my IP Attorney about the copyright
            situation in
            recorded
            > music. 

            >
            Forgetting for a moment employment or artists contracts, then if
            engineer A
            > records artist B singing a song by let's say Bach to avoid the
            complication
            > of the composers copyrights.  Then Artist B owns
            the copyright in
            the
            > performance, which is of course an ephemeral
            thing, and the
            engineer A owns
            > the copyright in the
            recording.   A's and B's right are often
            assigned by
            >
            performing, freelance recording or employment contracts in exchange
            for
            > considerations.  However, should a bootlegger C make a
            clandestine
            recording
            > of the performance they will be infringing the
            B's copyright in the
            > performance.

            > Now much the
            same is true in movies but convention has it that even
            the
            > leading
            actors violin teacher (to quote Robert's example) and
            possibly even
            >
            the supplier of strings and rosin gets a mention.

            > Two
            different industries, two different conventions.

            >
            Richard


            > PS I'll enquire of Tony if he
            knows how this situation came about.
            >
            >   _____ 
            >
            > From: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
            [mailto:regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com]
            > On Behalf Of Richard
            Tuck
            > Sent: 01 March 2006 09:06
            > To:
            regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: RE: [regsaudioforum]
            copyright
            >
            >
            > Maybe if the recording engineers were always
            credited the sloppy
            ones might
            > be motivated to do a better
            job?

            > Richard
            >
            >   _____ 
            >
            > From: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
            [mailto:regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com]
            > On Behalf Of
            regtas43
            > Sent: 01 March 2006 01:47
            > To:
            regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [regsaudioforum]
            copyright
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Copyright for recordings
            usually belongs to the label, or less
            often
            > to the performers. For
            example, Vox probably owns the recordings
            > Aubort and Nickrenz did for
            them. For sure, RCA(now BMG) owns the
            > rights to the Mohr/Layton
            recordings. The usual arrangement is that
            > the record label pays
            royalties to the performers, so that say the
            > Chicago Symphony(and
            Reiner most likely) got money per unit sales
            for
            > the Chicago
            Symphony/Reiner/Mohr and Layton Scheherazade. The
            > engineers and
            producers are just paid a salary(unless as some small
            > labels, they are
            also the owner or part owner  of the company, in
            > which they are
            likely to own the copyright of the recordings--but
            by
            > virtue of
            owning the company!.)
            >
            > REG
            >
            > PS I was grateful
            for the movies' attention to credits on Master
            and
            > Commander: the
            Far Side of the World.
            > You have to wait a while, but down there
            somewhere near Best Boy
            > Electric in the end credits is
            >
            "Russell Crowe's Violin Instructors
            > Zoe Black, Robert E. Greene, Richard
            Tognetti"
            > I liked it!
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > SPONSORED LINKS
            > Electronics
            > <
            href="http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?">http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
            t=ms&k=Electronics+hobby&w1=Electronics+hobby&
            >
            w2=Audio+electronics&w3=Craft+hobby&w4=Hobby+and+craft+supply&w5=Elect
            ronics
            >
            &w6=Hobby&c=6&s=119&.sig=TKg76BKI9XdSGbSLJYNBZQ> hobby       Audio
            > <
            href="http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?">http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
            t=ms&k=Audio+electronics&w1=Electronics+hobby&
            >
            w2=Audio+electronics&w3=Craft+hobby&w4=Hobby+and+craft+supply&w5=Elect
            ronics
            >
            &w6=Hobby&c=6&s=119&.sig=Iz7pbxgDxCzHnE25H-LFLw> electronics       Craft
            > <
            href="http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?">http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
            t=ms&k=Craft+hobby&w1=Electronics+hobby&w2=Aud
            >
            io+electronics&w3=Craft+hobby&w4=Hobby+and+craft+supply&w5=Electronics
            &w6=Ho
            >
            bby&c=6&s=119&.sig=AOnIIY1eaZlt4vTAfqIIoA> hobby      
            > Hobby
            > <
            href="http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?">http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
            t=ms&k=Hobby+and+craft+supply&w1=Electronics+h
            >
            obby&w2=Audio+electronics&w3=Craft+hobby&w4=Hobby+and+craft+supply&w5=
            Electr
            >
            onics&w6=Hobby&c=6&s=119&.sig=BEdwm_YLDu2BKKSpR8xFKw> and craft
            supply
            > Electronics
            > <
            href="http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?">http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
            t=ms&k=Electronics&w1=Electronics+hobby&w2=Aud
            >
            io+electronics&w3=Craft+hobby&w4=Hobby+and+craft+supply&w5=Electronics
            &w6=Ho
            >
            bby&c=6&s=119&.sig=sfeNDSqwxnvuRQCQf5mjuw>        Hobby
            > <
            href="http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?">http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
            t=ms&k=Hobby&w1=Electronics+hobby&w2=Audio+ele
            >
            ctronics&w3=Craft+hobby&w4=Hobby+and+craft+supply&w5=Electronics&w6=Ho
            bby&c=
            >
            6&s=119&.sig=CPjSBupErSVA3z1TejHFNg>       
            >
            >   _____ 
            >
            > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
            >
            >
            >
                 
            > *      Visit
            your group "regsaudioforum
            > <
            href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/regsaudioforum">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/regsaudioforum> " on the web.
            >  
            >
            >
            *      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            >  regsaudioforum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            <mailto:regsaudioforum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
            subject=Unsubscribe>
            >  
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            _____
            >





          • Richard Tuck
            PS First rule of IP management: sort out who owns what before there is anything to squabble about. Many people find the default situation in the absence of
            Message 5 of 14 , Mar 1, 2006
              PS
               
              First rule of IP management: sort out who owns what before there is anything to squabble about.  Many people find the default situation in the absence of contracts counter intuitive.
               
              E.g.  You pay me $10k to give you some advice and in doing so I invent something - who owns the rights to the invention.  If there was no contract saying anything to the contrary, me!
               
              Richard


              From: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Tuck
              Sent: 01 March 2006 19:03
              To: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [regsaudioforum] Re: copyright

              Hi Robert
               
              What I described the simplest situation in the absence of contracts - copyright just happens when somebody creates a work of art either a performance or a recording e.g. I pop around to chez REG and record you playing some Bach on the violin.  I end up with the copyright in the recording and you own the copyright in your performance.
               
              But in the real world most of the time both the artist and recording engineers with have contracts either as employee or as freelancers and in these contracts they will assign their rights in their work to whoever pays them.
              The same thing happens in the movies BUT they still get to go on the credits.
               
              Richard


              From: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of regtas43
              Sent: 01 March 2006 18:52
              To: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [regsaudioforum] Re: copyright

              I am not a lawyer, but I find this hard to understand. I am quite
              sure that RCA owns the Living Stereos, not Mohr and Layton(or their
              estates). Or is that what "forgetting employment" refers to? But
              almost ALL recordings are made with the engineers as employees(except
              very small labels where engineer and label owner are the same person).

              REG

              -- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Tuck" <rtuck@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > I had a chat with my IP Attorney about the copyright
              situation in
              recorded
              > music. 

              >
              Forgetting for a moment employment or artists contracts, then if
              engineer A
              > records artist B singing a song by let's say Bach to avoid the
              complication
              > of the composers copyrights.  Then Artist B owns
              the copyright in
              the
              > performance, which is of course an ephemeral
              thing, and the
              engineer A owns
              > the copyright in the
              recording.   A's and B's right are often
              assigned by
              >
              performing, freelance recording or employment contracts in exchange
              for
              > considerations.  However, should a bootlegger C make a
              clandestine
              recording
              > of the performance they will be infringing the
              B's copyright in the
              > performance.

              > Now much the
              same is true in movies but convention has it that even
              the
              > leading
              actors violin teacher (to quote Robert's example) and
              possibly even
              >
              the supplier of strings and rosin gets a mention.

              > Two
              different industries, two different conventions.

              >
              Richard


              > PS I'll enquire of Tony if he
              knows how this situation came about.
              >
              >   _____ 
              >
              > From: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
              [mailto:regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com]
              > On Behalf Of Richard
              Tuck
              > Sent: 01 March 2006 09:06
              > To:
              regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: RE: [regsaudioforum]
              copyright
              >
              >
              > Maybe if the recording engineers were always
              credited the sloppy
              ones might
              > be motivated to do a better
              job?

              > Richard
              >
              >   _____ 
              >
              > From: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
              [mailto:regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com]
              > On Behalf Of
              regtas43
              > Sent: 01 March 2006 01:47
              > To:
              regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [regsaudioforum]
              copyright
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Copyright for recordings
              usually belongs to the label, or less
              often
              > to the performers. For
              example, Vox probably owns the recordings
              > Aubort and Nickrenz did for
              them. For sure, RCA(now BMG) owns the
              > rights to the Mohr/Layton
              recordings. The usual arrangement is that
              > the record label pays
              royalties to the performers, so that say the
              > Chicago Symphony(and
              Reiner most likely) got money per unit sales
              for
              > the Chicago
              Symphony/Reiner/Mohr and Layton Scheherazade. The
              > engineers and
              producers are just paid a salary(unless as some small
              > labels, they are
              also the owner or part owner  of the company, in
              > which they are
              likely to own the copyright of the recordings--but
              by
              > virtue of
              owning the company!.)
              >
              > REG
              >
              > PS I was grateful
              for the movies' attention to credits on Master
              and
              > Commander: the
              Far Side of the World.
              > You have to wait a while, but down there
              somewhere near Best Boy
              > Electric in the end credits is
              >
              "Russell Crowe's Violin Instructors
              > Zoe Black, Robert E. Greene, Richard
              Tognetti"
              > I liked it!
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > SPONSORED LINKS
              > Electronics
              > <
              href="http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?">http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
              t=ms&k=Electronics+hobby&w1=Electronics+hobby&
              >
              w2=Audio+electronics&w3=Craft+hobby&w4=Hobby+and+craft+supply&w5=Elect
              ronics
              >
              &w6=Hobby&c=6&s=119&.sig=TKg76BKI9XdSGbSLJYNBZQ> hobby       Audio
              > <
              href="http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?">http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
              t=ms&k=Audio+electronics&w1=Electronics+hobby&
              >
              w2=Audio+electronics&w3=Craft+hobby&w4=Hobby+and+craft+supply&w5=Elect
              ronics
              >
              &w6=Hobby&c=6&s=119&.sig=Iz7pbxgDxCzHnE25H-LFLw> electronics       Craft
              > <
              href="http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?">http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
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            • Richard Tuck
              Quote from Tony Faulkner: Richard Hi Richard, Recording engineers are not always credited because the powers that be think of us as oily rags rather than
              Message 6 of 14 , Mar 1, 2006
                Quote from Tony Faulkner:
                 
                Richard
                 

                Hi Richard,

                Recording engineers are not always credited because the powers that be think of us as oily rags rather than anything important. If I go to a restaurant I am more interested in the quality of the chefs' work than how groveling the maitre d' is, but we know who controls the profile of the place.

                I try not to get bothered about it. It is not worth it. A lot of middle management types are too insecure in themselves to credit anyone else in the foodchain.

                Tony



                From: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Tuck
                Sent: 01 March 2006 10:43
                To: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [regsaudioforum] copyright

                I had a chat with my IP Attorney about the copyright situation in recorded music. 
                 
                Forgetting for a moment employment or artists contracts, then if engineer A records artist B singing a song by let's say Bach to avoid the complication of the composers copyrights.  Then Artist B owns the copyright in the performance, which is of course an ephemeral thing, and the engineer A owns the copyright in the recording.   A's and B's right are often assigned by performing, freelance recording or employment contracts in exchange for considerations.  However, should a bootlegger C make a clandestine recording of the performance they will be infringing the B's copyright in the performance.
                 
                Now much the same is true in movies but convention has it that even the leading actors violin teacher (to quote Robert's example) and possibly even the supplier of strings and rosin gets a mention.
                 
                Two different industries, two different conventions.
                 
                Richard
                 
                 
                PS I'll enquire of Tony if he knows how this situation came about.


                From: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Tuck
                Sent: 01 March 2006 09:06
                To: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [regsaudioforum] copyright

                Maybe if the recording engineers were always credited the sloppy ones might be motivated to do a better job?
                 
                Richard


                From: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of regtas43
                Sent: 01 March 2006 01:47
                To: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [regsaudioforum] copyright



                Copyright for recordings usually belongs to the label, or less often
                to the performers. For example, Vox probably owns the recordings
                Aubort and Nickrenz did for them. For sure, RCA(now BMG) owns the
                rights to the Mohr/Layton recordings. The usual arrangement is that
                the record label pays royalties to the performers, so that say the
                Chicago Symphony(and Reiner most likely) got money per unit sales for
                the Chicago Symphony/Reiner/Mohr and Layton Scheherazade. The
                engineers and producers are just paid a salary(unless as some small
                labels, they are also the owner or part owner  of the company, in
                which they are likely to own the copyright of the recordings--but by
                virtue of owning the company!.)

                REG

                PS I was grateful for the movies' attention to credits on Master and
                Commander: the Far Side of the World.
                You have to wait a while, but down there somewhere near Best Boy
                Electric in the end credits is
                "Russell Crowe's Violin Instructors
                Zoe Black, Robert E. Greene, Richard Tognetti"
                I liked it!




              • Tip Johnson
                Hi Richard, ... So that explains how Intel got to keep the microprocessor (4004?) that they invented while designing a desk calculator for some Japanese
                Message 7 of 14 , Mar 1, 2006
                  Hi Richard,

                  > E.g. You pay me $10k to give you some advice and in doing so I invent
                  > something - who owns the rights to the invention. If there was no
                  > contract
                  > saying anything to the contrary, me!

                  So that explains how Intel got to keep the microprocessor (4004?) that they
                  invented while designing a desk calculator for some Japanese
                  business-machine company.

                  Regards,
                  Tip
                • Richard Tuck
                  Yep the wonderful world of IP where for example you can own a patent and have no rights to use it.......................there s loads of stuff like that. After
                  Message 8 of 14 , Mar 1, 2006
                    Yep the wonderful world of IP where for example you can own a patent and have no rights to use it.......................there's loads of stuff like that. 
                     
                    After playing with the stuff for ~14 years I get a bit blasé but I do remember it all seemed very counter intuitive first time around.
                     
                    Richard


                    From: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tip Johnson
                    Sent: 01 March 2006 21:33
                    To: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [regsaudioforum] Re: copyright

                    Hi Richard,

                    > E.g.  You pay me $10k to give you
                    some advice and in doing so I invent
                    > something - who owns the rights to
                    the invention.  If there was no
                    > contract
                    > saying anything
                    to the contrary, me!

                    So that explains how Intel got to keep the microprocessor (4004?) that they
                    invented while designing a desk calculator for some Japanese
                    business-machine company.

                    Regards,
                    Tip
                  • Ken Holder
                    ... I believe the term work for hire covers it. Whoever hired you to do the work owns the copyright. Ken Holder Just a Simple Country-Bumpkin Music-Lover
                    Message 9 of 14 , Mar 1, 2006
                      At 11:52 AM 3/1/2006, regtas43 wrote:

                      >I am not a lawyer, but I find this hard to understand. I am quite
                      >sure that RCA owns the Living Stereos, not Mohr and Layton(or their
                      >estates). Or is that what "forgetting employment" refers to? But
                      >almost ALL recordings are made with the engineers as employees(except
                      >very small labels where engineer and label owner are the same person).


                      I believe the term "work for hire" covers it. Whoever hired you to do
                      the work owns the copyright.

                      Ken Holder
                      Just a Simple Country-Bumpkin Music-Lover
                    • robert jorgensen
                      Was that not Datapoint? Robert in sunny Brussels
                      Message 10 of 14 , Mar 2, 2006
                        Was that not Datapoint?

                        Robert in sunny Brussels

                        On 3/1/06, Tip Johnson <Tip_Johnson@...> wrote:
                        Hi Richard,


                        > E.g.  You pay me $10k to give you some advice and in doing so I invent
                        > something - who owns the rights to the invention.  If there was no
                        > contract
                        > saying anything to the contrary, me!

                        So that explains how Intel got to keep the microprocessor (4004?) that they
                        invented while designing a desk calculator for some Japanese
                        business-machine company.

                        Regards,
                        Tip


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                      • Richard Tuck
                        Hi Ken More or less correct in US law except for the case of freelancers, see http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ09.pdf were the contract has to specify this.
                        Message 11 of 14 , Mar 2, 2006
                          Hi Ken
                           
                          More or less correct in US law except for the case of freelancers, see
                           
                           
                          were the contract has to specify this. 
                           
                          Richard


                          From: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ken Holder
                          Sent: 02 March 2006 03:58
                          To: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [regsaudioforum] Re: copyright

                          At 11:52 AM 3/1/2006, regtas43 wrote:

                          >I am not a
                          lawyer, but I find this hard to understand. I am quite
                          >sure that RCA owns
                          the Living Stereos, not Mohr and Layton(or their
                          >estates). Or is that
                          what "forgetting employment" refers to? But
                          >almost ALL recordings are
                          made with the engineers as employees(except
                          >very small labels where
                          engineer and label owner are the same person).


                          I believe the term "work for hire" covers it. Whoever hired you to do
                          the work owns the copyright.

                          Ken Holder
                          Just a Simple Country-Bumpkin Music-Lover





                        • etipjohnson
                          Hi Robert, ... It was Busicom - see http://www.intel4004.com/ Tip in gloomy Cleveland ;^) ... invent ... no ... that
                          Message 12 of 14 , Mar 2, 2006
                            Hi Robert,

                            > Was that not Datapoint?
                            >
                            > Robert in sunny Brussels

                            It was Busicom - see http://www.intel4004.com/

                            Tip in gloomy Cleveland ;^)

                            > > > E.g. You pay me $10k to give you some advice and in doing so I
                            invent
                            > > > something - who owns the rights to the invention. If there was
                            no
                            > > > contract
                            > > > saying anything to the contrary, me!
                            > >
                            > > So that explains how Intel got to keep the microprocessor (4004?)
                            that
                            > > they
                            > > invented while designing a desk calculator for some Japanese
                            > > business-machine company.
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