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RE: [regsaudioforum] Re: Human nature

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  • Heimlich Maneuver
    I don’t know, and I think such research is well warranted, but as REG mentioned at some point, some of these tweeters have a combination of strong in-band
    Message 1 of 15 , Jun 19, 2013
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      I don’t know, and I think such research is well warranted, but as REG mentioned at some point, some of these tweeters have a combination of strong in-band response and uncompensated roll up, and might be thus putting out some very high sound levels on axis in the top octaves. If your tinnitus tones are/were of the very high frequency sort, rather than down into the midrange, I suppose that might be a bit of evidence for this, but happily, I'm an engineer, not a doctor. Anyway, my rule of thumb is to keep SPL below shouting levels, that is, it should be possible to talk to someone as long as there are no musical crescendos at the moment, which should conserve one's hearing, assuming reasonably flat speaker response at your listening position.

       

      DAJ

       

      From: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bomwell, Alan
      Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 8:01 AM
      To: 'regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com'
      Subject: Re: [regsaudioforum] Re: Human nature

       

       

      I wonder if there has been any studies to suggest a connection with high frequency tweeter outputs, such as mentioned below, and tennitus. I developed it several months after purchasing Maggie 3.6s about 10 years ago. I was listening for about four hours daily at a nearfield distance. Probably a coincidence but I always wondered about that.

      Al

       

      From: Peter [mailto:alcomdata@...]
      Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 07:33 AM
      To: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com <regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: Re: [regsaudioforum] Re: Human nature
       

       

      The Maggie ribbon tweeter goes out to 40K.

       

      From: YMM <yipmangmeng@...>
      To: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 7:25 AM
      Subject: [regsaudioforum] Re: Human nature

       

      Regarding the top frequency question, it came to me when I was reading some speakers' spec sheets which show the speakers capable of reaching 40 khz. And I recalled that the 3/6 has only a top frequency of 17 khz. Hence the question.

      Yip

      --- In mailto:regsaudioforum%40yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <regtas43@...> wrote:
      >
      > It seems to be our nature to worry.
      > And if we are concerned with some situation
      > but cannot really do much of anything
      > about the real problems of it, we
      > do what I call displacement worry.
      > The day you lost half your retirement
      > in the stock market crash, you might
      > well have also been worried about being
      > overcharged a dollar at the local grocery
      > store. Of course this is hardly my personal
      > observation. Think of Beethoven's Rage over a Lost Penny.
      > Funny--precisely because we have all felt such rage
      > over trivia.
      >
      > Looking at audio it is clear that for people
      > who want to hear concert sound, the biggest
      > problem is that recordings are not generally made
      > that way. Then there are the big problems
      > of speakers in rooms. All of this has to do
      > firmly with easily observed things. Anyone
      > who has any sonic memory at all can recall
      > that the last concert they heard did not sound
      > all that much like most recorded music played
      > on most systems and that this has absolutely
      > nothing to do with the far frequency extremes
      > or any other relatively small thing but rather
      > has to do with fundamentals.
      >
      > You can easily convince yourself by finding even
      > one recording and one system that sounds a lot more like a concert
      > than do most of the recording/system combinations.
      >
      > But of course we cannot really do anything
      > much about the paucity of natural recordings.
      > So , human nature being as it is, we start
      > to worry about things that we can do something about--
      > even if these things do not really matter.
      > We transfer our frustration and anxiety.
      >
      > Everyone does this all the time. I am still
      > smarting inwardly over the time someone stole
      > $60 from me decades ago, even though amounts
      > which dwarf this have come and gone, profits and
      > losses orders of magnitude larger.
      >
      > This is just how we work. And I think
      > we need to --we need to dissipate the huge
      > anxities of real life by more or less trivial
      > surrogate worries.
      >
      > So there is perhaps no use in getting upset
      > about such things. But if you are interested
      > in audio seriously, it is worth pausing
      > and thinking about which things really count!
      > and which do not. If one needs to ask is
      > it audible, it is probably utterly unimportant
      > in musical terms, for a start.
      >
      > REG
      >

    • Peter
      It may depend on what amplifier(s) you were using.  Maggies are nominally 4 ohm speakers, but the ribbon tweeter in the 3.6 went down to 3.3 ohms.  (
      Message 2 of 15 , Jun 19, 2013
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        It may depend on what amplifier(s) you were using.  Maggies are nominally 4 ohm speakers, but the ribbon tweeter in the 3.6 went down to 3.3 ohms. 
         
        Not all amps would handle 3.3 ohms without some sort of stress.
         
         
         

        From: "Bomwell, Alan" <abomwell@...>
        To: "'regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com'" <regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 8:00 AM
        Subject: Re: [regsaudioforum] Re: Human nature
         
        I wonder if there has been any studies to suggest a connection with high frequency tweeter outputs, such as mentioned below, and tennitus. I developed it several months after purchasing Maggie 3.6s about 10 years ago. I was listening for about four hours daily at a nearfield distance. Probably a coincidence but I always wondered about that.

        Al

         
        From: Peter [mailto:alcomdata@...]
        Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 07:33 AM
        To: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com <regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com>
        Subject: Re: [regsaudioforum] Re: Human nature
         
         
        The Maggie ribbon tweeter goes out to 40K.

        From: YMM <yipmangmeng@...>
        To: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 7:25 AM
        Subject: [regsaudioforum] Re: Human nature
         
        Regarding the top frequency question, it came to me when I was reading some speakers' spec sheets which show the speakers capable of reaching 40 khz. And I recalled that the 3/6 has only a top frequency of 17 khz. Hence the question. Yip --- In mailto:regsaudioforum%40yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <regtas43@...> wrote: > > It seems to be our nature to worry. > And if we are concerned with some situation > but cannot really do much of anything > about the real problems of it, we > do what I call displacement worry. > The day you lost half your retirement > in the stock market crash, you might > well have also been worried about being > overcharged a dollar at the local grocery > store. Of course this is hardly my personal > observation. Think of Beethoven's Rage over a Lost Penny. > Funny--precisely because we have all felt such rage > over trivia. > > Looking at audio it is clear that for people > who want to hear concert sound, the biggest > problem is that recordings are not generally made > that way. Then there are the big problems > of speakers in rooms. All of this has to do > firmly with easily observed things. Anyone > who has any sonic memory at all can recall > that the last concert they heard did not sound > all that much like most recorded music played > on most systems and that this has absolutely > nothing to do with the far frequency extremes > or any other relatively small thing but rather > has to do with fundamentals. > > You can easily convince yourself by finding even > one recording and one system that sounds a lot more like a concert > than do most of the recording/system combinations. > > But of course we cannot really do anything > much about the paucity of natural recordings. > So , human nature being as it is, we start > to worry about things that we can do something about-- > even if these things do not really matter. > We transfer our frustration and anxiety. > > Everyone does this all the time. I am still > smarting inwardly over the time someone stole > $60 from me decades ago, even though amounts > which dwarf this have come and gone, profits and > losses orders of magnitude larger. > > This is just how we work. And I think > we need to --we need to dissipate the huge > anxities of real life by more or less trivial > surrogate worries. > > So there is perhaps no use in getting upset > about such things. But if you are interested > in audio seriously, it is worth pausing > and thinking about which things really count! > and which do not. If one needs to ask is > it audible, it is probably utterly unimportant > in musical terms, for a start. > > REG >
      • Bomwell, Alan
        I was using Bryston 7B-ST monoblocks. I didn t play my system then, and still don t now, too loudly. My tennitus comes and goes and sounds like tape hiss, not
        Message 3 of 15 , Jun 19, 2013
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          I was using Bryston 7B-ST monoblocks. I didn't play my system then, and still don't now, too loudly. My tennitus comes and goes and sounds like tape hiss, not a high pitch ringing.

          A Texas University (I can't remember which) trumpet professor who is also a medical doctor told me at the time that the cause of tennitus was not yet known, nor was there a cure. He did say that aspirin and caffeine exasperated the problem.

          Al

           
          From: Peter [mailto:alcomdata@...]
          Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 10:36 AM
          To: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com <regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com>
          Subject: Re: [regsaudioforum] Re: Human nature
           
           

          It may depend on what amplifier(s) you were using.  Maggies are nominally 4 ohm speakers, but the ribbon tweeter in the 3.6 went down to 3.3 ohms. 
           
          Not all amps would handle 3.3 ohms without some sort of stress.
           
           
           

          From: "Bomwell, Alan" <abomwell@...>
          To: "'regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com'" <regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 8:00 AM
          Subject: Re: [regsaudioforum] Re: Human nature
           
          I wonder if there has been any studies to suggest a connection with high frequency tweeter outputs, such as mentioned below, and tennitus. I developed it several months after purchasing Maggie 3.6s about 10 years ago. I was listening for about four hours daily at a nearfield distance. Probably a coincidence but I always wondered about that.

          Al

           
          From: Peter [mailto:alcomdata@...]
          Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 07:33 AM
          To: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com <regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com>
          Subject: Re: [regsaudioforum] Re: Human nature
           
           
          The Maggie ribbon tweeter goes out to 40K.

          From: YMM <yipmangmeng@...>
          To: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 7:25 AM
          Subject: [regsaudioforum] Re: Human nature
           
          Regarding the top frequency question, it came to me when I was reading some speakers' spec sheets which show the speakers capable of reaching 40 khz. And I recalled that the 3/6 has only a top frequency of 17 khz. Hence the question. Yip --- In mailto:regsaudioforum%40yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <regtas43@...> wrote: > > It seems to be our nature to worry.
          > And if we are concerned with some situation > but cannot really do much of anything > about the real problems of it, we > do what I call displacement worry. > The day you lost half your retirement > in the stock market crash, you might > well have also been worried about being > overcharged a dollar at the local grocery > store. Of course this is hardly my personal > observation. Think
          of Beethoven's Rage over a Lost Penny. > Funny--precisely because we have all felt such rage > over trivia. >
          > Looking at audio it is clear that for people > who want to hear concert sound, the biggest > problem is that recordings are not generally made > that way. Then there are the big problems > of speakers in rooms. All of this has to do >
          firmly with easily observed things. Anyone > who has any sonic memory at all can recall > that the last concert they heard did not sound > all that much like most recorded music played > on most systems and that this has absolutely > nothing to do with the far frequency extremes > or any other relatively small thing but rather > has to do with fundamentals. >
          > You can easily convince yourself by finding even > one recording and one system that sounds a lot more like a concert > than do most of the recording/system combinations. > > But of course we cannot really do anything > much about the paucity of natural recordings. > So , human nature being as it is, we start > to worry about things that we can do something about-- > even if these things do not really matter. >
          We transfer our frustration and anxiety. > > Everyone does this all the time. I am still > smarting inwardly over the time someone stole > $60 from me decades ago, even though amounts > which dwarf this have come and gone, profits and > losses orders of magnitude larger. > > This is just how we work. And I think > we need to --we need to dissipate the huge > anxities of real life by more or less trivial > surrogate worries.
          > > So there is perhaps no use in getting upset > about such things. But if you are interested > in audio seriously, it is worth pausing > and thinking about which things really count! > and which do not. If one needs to ask is > it audible, it is probably utterly unimportant > in musical terms, for a start. > > REG >

        • Robert
          I was referring not to your question but to the compulsive worry of audiophiles about such things. It seems to me misguided somewhat to worry about whether one
          Message 4 of 15 , Jun 19, 2013
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            I was referring not to your question but
            to the compulsive worry of audiophiles about
            such things. It seems to me misguided somewhat
            to worry about whether one has tweeters that go to 40 kHz
            while one is listening to a system with a 7 dB hole
            between 100 and 300 Hz. This is like worrying
            about whether the silverware is polished while
            the house is on fire.
            REG

            --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "YMM" <yipmangmeng@...> wrote:
            >
            > Regarding the top frequency question, it came to me when I was reading some speakers' spec sheets which show the speakers capable of reaching 40 khz. And I recalled that the 3/6 has only a top frequency of 17 khz. Hence the question.
            >
            > Yip
            >
            > --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <regtas43@> wrote:
            > >
            > > It seems to be our nature to worry.
            > > And if we are concerned with some situation
            > > but cannot really do much of anything
            > > about the real problems of it, we
            > > do what I call displacement worry.
            > > The day you lost half your retirement
            > > in the stock market crash, you might
            > > well have also been worried about being
            > > overcharged a dollar at the local grocery
            > > store. Of course this is hardly my personal
            > > observation. Think of Beethoven's Rage over a Lost Penny.
            > > Funny--precisely because we have all felt such rage
            > > over trivia.
            > >
            > > Looking at audio it is clear that for people
            > > who want to hear concert sound, the biggest
            > > problem is that recordings are not generally made
            > > that way. Then there are the big problems
            > > of speakers in rooms. All of this has to do
            > > firmly with easily observed things. Anyone
            > > who has any sonic memory at all can recall
            > > that the last concert they heard did not sound
            > > all that much like most recorded music played
            > > on most systems and that this has absolutely
            > > nothing to do with the far frequency extremes
            > > or any other relatively small thing but rather
            > > has to do with fundamentals.
            > >
            > > You can easily convince yourself by finding even
            > > one recording and one system that sounds a lot more like a concert
            > > than do most of the recording/system combinations.
            > >
            > > But of course we cannot really do anything
            > > much about the paucity of natural recordings.
            > > So , human nature being as it is, we start
            > > to worry about things that we can do something about--
            > > even if these things do not really matter.
            > > We transfer our frustration and anxiety.
            > >
            > > Everyone does this all the time. I am still
            > > smarting inwardly over the time someone stole
            > > $60 from me decades ago, even though amounts
            > > which dwarf this have come and gone, profits and
            > > losses orders of magnitude larger.
            > >
            > > This is just how we work. And I think
            > > we need to --we need to dissipate the huge
            > > anxities of real life by more or less trivial
            > > surrogate worries.
            > >
            > > So there is perhaps no use in getting upset
            > > about such things. But if you are interested
            > > in audio seriously, it is worth pausing
            > > and thinking about which things really count!
            > > and which do not. If one needs to ask is
            > > it audible, it is probably utterly unimportant
            > > in musical terms, for a start.
            > >
            > > REG
            > >
            >
          • Peter
            ...   It s never been something I worry about.   The context of his question had nothing to do with worrying about (at least in the audiophile sense) of
            Message 5 of 15 , Jun 19, 2013
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              > It seems to me misguided somewhat to worry about whether one has tweeters that go to 40 kHz
               
              It's never been something I worry about.
               
              The context of his question had nothing to do with "worrying about" (at least in the audiophile sense) of having tweeters that go out to 40 kHz.  He was asking a medically-related question about whether the (inaudible) ultra-high frequencies could be contributing to his tinnitus.
               
              My response was simply to point out the possibility of amplier/speaker interaction.

              From: Robert <regtas43@...>
              To: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 12:33 PM
              Subject: [regsaudioforum] Re: Human nature
               
              I was referring not to your question but
              to the compulsive worry of audiophiles about
              such things. It seems to me misguided somewhat
              to worry about whether one has tweeters that go to 40 kHz
              while one is listening to a system with a 7 dB hole
              between 100 and 300 Hz. This is like worrying
              about whether the silverware is polished while
              the house is on fire.
              REG

              --- In mailto:regsaudioforum%40yahoogroups.com, "YMM" <yipmangmeng@...> wrote:
              >
              > Regarding the top frequency question, it came to me when I was reading some speakers' spec sheets which show the speakers capable of reaching 40 khz. And I recalled that the 3/6 has only a top frequency of 17 khz. Hence the question.
              >
              > Yip
              >
              > --- In mailto:regsaudioforum%40yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <regtas43@> wrote:
              > >
              > > It seems to be our nature to worry.
              > > And if we are concerned with some situation
              > > but cannot really do much of anything
              > > about the real problems of it, we
              > > do what I call displacement worry.
              > > The day you lost half your retirement
              > > in the stock market crash, you might
              > > well have also been worried about being
              > > overcharged a dollar at the local grocery
              > > store. Of course this is hardly my personal
              > > observation. Think of Beethoven's Rage over a Lost Penny.
              > > Funny--precisely because we have all felt such rage
              > > over trivia.
              > >
              > > Looking at audio it is clear that for people
              > > who want to hear concert sound, the biggest
              > > problem is that recordings are not generally made
              > > that way. Then there are the big problems
              > > of speakers in rooms. All of this has to do
              > > firmly with easily observed things. Anyone
              > > who has any sonic memory at all can recall
              > > that the last concert they heard did not sound
              > > all that much like most recorded music played
              > > on most systems and that this has absolutely
              > > nothing to do with the far frequency extremes
              > > or any other relatively small thing but rather
              > > has to do with fundamentals.
              > >
              > > You can easily convince yourself by finding even
              > > one recording and one system that sounds a lot more like a concert
              > > than do most of the recording/system combinations.
              > >
              > > But of course we cannot really do anything
              > > much about the paucity of natural recordings.
              > > So , human nature being as it is, we start
              > > to worry about things that we can do something about--
              > > even if these things do not really matter.
              > > We transfer our frustration and anxiety.
              > >
              > > Everyone does this all the time. I am still
              > > smarting inwardly over the time someone stole
              > > $60 from me decades ago, even though amounts
              > > which dwarf this have come and gone, profits and
              > > losses orders of magnitude larger.
              > >
              > > This is just how we work. And I think
              > > we need to --we need to dissipate the huge
              > > anxities of real life by more or less trivial
              > > surrogate worries.
              > >
              > > So there is perhaps no use in getting upset
              > > about such things. But if you are interested
              > > in audio seriously, it is worth pausing
              > > and thinking about which things really count!
              > > and which do not. If one needs to ask is
              > > it audible, it is probably utterly unimportant
              > > in musical terms, for a start.
              > >
              > > REG
              > >
              >

            • Tom Mallin
              I think Magneplanar speakers have always been classified as an easy or benign load for amps, with or without that ribbon tweeter. The impedance is very even
              Message 6 of 15 , Jun 19, 2013
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                I think Magneplanar speakers have always been classified as an easy or benign load for amps, with or without that ribbon tweeter.  The impedance is very even and mostly resistive with no weird phase angles or other problems.   Yes, they are not very sensitive, so you need a good amount of power to make them perk up and take notice, but the amps used are not really a big issue as far as the response you get from them.  Raising amp/speaker interaction as a possible variable in how far out the tweeter response extends is not appropriate here.  Besides, Magnepan long used the big Bryston amps as their design reference and often demoed at shows with those.  That's the brand and type that Al had.

                See, for example, the discussion of Magneplanar load on the amp at the Stereophile review of the 3.6 at:



                On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 11:51 AM, Peter <alcomdata@...> wrote:
                 

                > It seems to me misguided somewhat to worry about whether one has tweeters that go to 40 kHz
                 
                It's never been something I worry about.
                 
                The context of his question had nothing to do with "worrying about" (at least in the audiophile sense) of having tweeters that go out to 40 kHz.  He was asking a medically-related question about whether the (inaudible) ultra-high frequencies could be contributing to his tinnitus.
                 
                My response was simply to point out the possibility of amplier/speaker interaction.

                From: Robert <regtas43@...>
                To: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 12:33 PM
                Subject: [regsaudioforum] Re: Human nature
                 
                I was referring not to your question but
                to the compulsive worry of audiophiles about
                such things. It seems to me misguided somewhat
                to worry about whether one has tweeters that go to 40 kHz
                while one is listening to a system with a 7 dB hole
                between 100 and 300 Hz. This is like worrying
                about whether the silverware is polished while
                the house is on fire.
                REG

                --- In mailto:regsaudioforum%40yahoogroups.com, "YMM" <yipmangmeng@...> wrote:
                >
                > Regarding the top frequency question, it came to me when I was reading some speakers' spec sheets which show the speakers capable of reaching 40 khz. And I recalled that the 3/6 has only a top frequency of 17 khz. Hence the question.
                >
                > Yip
                >
                > --- In mailto:regsaudioforum%40yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <regtas43@> wrote:
                > >
                > > It seems to be our nature to worry.
                > > And if we are concerned with some situation
                > > but cannot really do much of anything
                > > about the real problems of it, we
                > > do what I call displacement worry.
                > > The day you lost half your retirement
                > > in the stock market crash, you might
                > > well have also been worried about being
                > > overcharged a dollar at the local grocery
                > > store. Of course this is hardly my personal
                > > observation. Think of Beethoven's Rage over a Lost Penny.
                > > Funny--precisely because we have all felt such rage
                > > over trivia.
                > >
                > > Looking at audio it is clear that for people
                > > who want to hear concert sound, the biggest
                > > problem is that recordings are not generally made
                > > that way. Then there are the big problems
                > > of speakers in rooms. All of this has to do
                > > firmly with easily observed things. Anyone
                > > who has any sonic memory at all can recall
                > > that the last concert they heard did not sound
                > > all that much like most recorded music played
                > > on most systems and that this has absolutely
                > > nothing to do with the far frequency extremes
                > > or any other relatively small thing but rather
                > > has to do with fundamentals.
                > >
                > > You can easily convince yourself by finding even
                > > one recording and one system that sounds a lot more like a concert
                > > than do most of the recording/system combinations.
                > >
                > > But of course we cannot really do anything
                > > much about the paucity of natural recordings.
                > > So , human nature being as it is, we start
                > > to worry about things that we can do something about--
                > > even if these things do not really matter.
                > > We transfer our frustration and anxiety.
                > >
                > > Everyone does this all the time. I am still
                > > smarting inwardly over the time someone stole
                > > $60 from me decades ago, even though amounts
                > > which dwarf this have come and gone, profits and
                > > losses orders of magnitude larger.
                > >
                > > This is just how we work. And I think
                > > we need to --we need to dissipate the huge
                > > anxities of real life by more or less trivial
                > > surrogate worries.
                > >
                > > So there is perhaps no use in getting upset
                > > about such things. But if you are interested
                > > in audio seriously, it is worth pausing
                > > and thinking about which things really count!
                > > and which do not. If one needs to ask is
                > > it audible, it is probably utterly unimportant
                > > in musical terms, for a start.
                > >
                > > REG
                > >
                >


              • Peter
                ...   I wasn t referring to how far out the tweeter response extends.   I was referring to possible distortion, up to and including clipping, which
                Message 7 of 15 , Jun 19, 2013
                • 0 Attachment
                  > Raising amp/speaker interaction as a possible variable in how far out the tweeter response extends is not appropriate here.
                   
                  I wasn't referring to "how far out the tweeter response extends."  I was referring to possible distortion, up to and including clipping, which shouldn't have been a problem with Bryston 7Bs.  Far more tweeters get fried by underpowered amps than by "overpowered" amps. 

                  From: Tom Mallin <tmallin4@...>
                  To: "regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com" <regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 1:09 PM
                  Subject: Re: [regsaudioforum] Re: Human nature
                   
                  I think Magneplanar speakers have always been classified as an easy or benign load for amps, with or without that ribbon tweeter.  The impedance is very even and mostly resistive with no weird phase angles or other problems.   Yes, they are not very sensitive, so you need a good amount of power to make them perk up and take notice, but the amps used are not really a big issue as far as the response you get from them.  Raising amp/speaker interaction as a possible variable in how far out the tweeter response extends is not appropriate here.  Besides, Magnepan long used the big Bryston amps as their design reference and often demoed at shows with those.  That's the brand and type that Al had.

                  See, for example, the discussion of Magneplanar load on the amp at the Stereophile review of the 3.6 at:

                  http://www.stereophile.com/content/magnepan-magneplanar-mg36r-loudspeaker-page-2 
                  On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 11:51 AM, Peter <alcomdata@...> wrote:
                   
                  > It seems to me misguided somewhat to worry about whether one has tweeters that go to 40 kHz
                   
                  It's never been something I worry about.
                   
                  The context of his question had nothing to do with "worrying about" (at least in the audiophile sense) of having tweeters that go out to 40 kHz.  He was asking a medically-related question about whether the (inaudible) ultra-high frequencies could be contributing to his tinnitus.
                   
                  My response was simply to point out the possibility of amplier/speaker interaction.

                  From: Robert <regtas43@...>
                  To: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 12:33 PM
                  Subject: [regsaudioforum] Re: Human nature
                   
                  I was referring not to your question but to the compulsive worry of audiophiles about such things. It seems to me misguided somewhat to worry about whether one has tweeters that go to 40 kHz while one is listening to a system with a 7 dB hole between 100 and 300 Hz. This is like worrying about whether the silverware is polished while the house is on fire. REG --- In mailto:regsaudioforum%40yahoogroups.com, "YMM" <yipmangmeng@...> wrote: > > Regarding the top frequency question, it came to me when I was reading some speakers' spec sheets which show the speakers capable of reaching 40 khz. And I recalled that the 3/6 has only a top frequency of 17 khz. Hence the question. > > Yip > > --- In mailto:regsaudioforum%40yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <regtas43@> wrote: > > > > It seems to be our nature to worry. > > And if we are concerned with some situation > > but cannot really do much of anything > > about the real problems of it, we > > do what I call displacement worry. > > The day you lost half your retirement > > in the stock market crash, you might > > well have also been worried about being > > overcharged a dollar at the local grocery > > store. Of course this is hardly my personal > > observation. Think of Beethoven's Rage over a Lost Penny. > > Funny--precisely because we have all felt such rage > > over trivia. > > > > Looking at audio it is clear that for people > > who want to hear concert sound, the biggest > > problem is that recordings are not generally made > > that way. Then there are the big problems > > of speakers in rooms. All of this has to do > > firmly with easily observed things. Anyone > > who has any sonic memory at all can recall > > that the last concert they heard did not sound > > all that much like most recorded music played > > on most systems and that this has absolutely > > nothing to do with the far frequency extremes > > or any other relatively small thing but rather > > has to do with fundamentals. > > > > You can easily convince yourself by finding even > > one recording and one system that sounds a lot more like a concert > > than do most of the recording/system combinations. > > > > But of course we cannot really do anything > > much about the paucity of natural recordings. > > So , human nature being as it is, we start > > to worry about things that we can do something about-- > > even if these things do not really matter. > > We transfer our frustration and anxiety. > > > > Everyone does this all the time. I am still > > smarting inwardly over the time someone stole > > $60 from me decades ago, even though amounts > > which dwarf this have come and gone, profits and > > losses orders of magnitude larger. > > > > This is just how we work. And I think > > we need to --we need to dissipate the huge > > anxities of real life by more or less trivial > > surrogate worries. > > > > So there is perhaps no use in getting upset > > about such things. But if you are interested > > in audio seriously, it is worth pausing > > and thinking about which things really count! > > and which do not. If one needs to ask is > > it audible, it is probably utterly unimportant > > in musical terms, for a start. > > > > REG > > >
                • Edward Mast
                  Well said, Robert - something we would do well to keep in mind. Ned
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jun 19, 2013
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                    Well said, Robert - something we would do well to keep in mind.
                    Ned
                  • orabji
                    ... *** *** *** Current understanding of tinitus is that it s caused by the inner hair cell nerves being damaged, either by exposure to sounds that are too
                    Message 9 of 15 , Jun 19, 2013
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                      --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Bomwell, Alan" <abomwell@...> wrote:

                      > A Texas University (I can't remember which) trumpet professor who is also a medical doctor told me at the time that the cause of tennitus was not yet known, nor was there a cure. He did say that aspirin and caffeine exasperated the problem.

                      *** *** ***

                      Current understanding of tinitus is that it's caused by the inner hair cell nerves being damaged, either by exposure to sounds that are too loud or aging. The brain senses this and turns up the gain to compensate, resulting in tinitus. Some doctors call it "head noise".

                      - John
                    • Bomwell, Alan
                      Thanks, John, for what seems a plausible explanation of tinnitus cause. I don t believe, in my case, it was due to too loud listening. But the aging is
                      Message 10 of 15 , Jun 20, 2013
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                        Thanks, John, for what seems a plausible explanation of tinnitus' cause. I don't believe, in my case, it was due to too loud listening.  But the aging is certainly a possibility. I do notice it more when I'm tired. 

                        Regards,

                        Al





                        Sent from my iPad

                        On Jun 19, 2013, at 10:12 PM, "orabji" <orabji@...> wrote:

                         



                        --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Bomwell, Alan" <abomwell@...> wrote:

                        > A Texas University (I can't remember which) trumpet professor who is also a medical doctor told me at the time that the cause of tennitus was not yet known, nor was there a cure. He did say that aspirin and caffeine exasperated the problem.

                        *** *** ***

                        Current understanding of tinitus is that it's caused by the inner hair cell nerves being damaged, either by exposure to sounds that are too loud or aging. The brain senses this and turns up the gain to compensate, resulting in tinitus. Some doctors call it "head noise".

                        - John

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