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Re:Japanese langauge usage(OT)

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  • Robert
    Thank you for the information. I suppose the point that remains unclear to me is whether when ,say, a public official is identified in an article in a
    Message 1 of 30 , May 12, 2013
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      Thank you for the information.
      I suppose the point that remains unclear
      to me is whether when ,say, a public official
      is identified in an article in a newspaper
      in Japan the honorific is attached
      or some honorific is attached.
      If as seems to be the case san is attached
      to the first name(?) this seems quite unlikely,
      And the honorific surely does not occur in scientific
      writing as I have encountered it in English written
      by Japanese people. I have never seen any sentence
      of this sort:
      "The resolution of singularities was established
      by Hironaka -san[or even less Heisuke-san] in 1964."
      This sort of thing does not occur in my experience--
      and this is the closest that I can come to writing
      journalism about a person. Whatever one would have
      called Hironka in person....or in conversation in his
      absence with a third person. Perhaps if one were writing
      a personal narrative of someone one knew....but who
      was not a member of one's family.

      REG

      PS Mathematicians are as a group worldwide
      extremely informal. Use of title is rare.
      Sir Michael Atiyah is still just "Michael Atiyah"
      in scientific articles, most of the time, except
      perhaps in a social narrative of some sort.Cf
      eg the first sentence here
      https://simonsfoundation.org/science_lives_video/michael-atiyah/?chapter=1
      I think mathematicians feel that their accomplishments
      have a reality that does not need affirmation by
      social conventions. Atiyah is who he is. No government
      has real power to add or detract!

      --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, robert jorgensen <robert.jorgensen@...> wrote:
      >
      > I hope I can offer a final resolution to the original question regarding
      > the use of the postfix "San" to Japanese names.
      >
      > Yesterday just before leaving the High End exhibition in Munich I got from
      > the horse's mouth (no offence to Kiuchi-San (Combak) who answered my
      > question and who seems quite traditional and certainly very polite) the
      > appropriate definition of said post fix.
      >
      > It is an honorific which it is most polite to add to a persons name. It is
      > still (perhaps lessening under western influence) impolite to use a
      > person's first name straight in Japan.
      >
      > So you would for instance (if recognising this tradition) call REG
      > "Robert-San", meaning Honourable Robert. San can be applied to both male
      > and female names since it has no gender affiliation only the meaning of
      > showing honour (as in being polite or respectful) to the person addressed.
      >
      > Greetings from Brussels
      >
      > Robert
      >
      >
      > On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 1:47 AM, Robert <regtas43@...> wrote:
      >
      > > I at one point lived in Japan for a
      > > couple of months. I must say--not that this
      > > is important directly for audio!--
      > > that my experience was exactly opposite.
      > > that I never heard anyone refer while speaking
      > > Enlgish to an
      > > absent person by anything but his last name alone.
      > >
      > > Perhaps some other members could comment on this.
      > > I am actually directly interest in the sense
      > > that on occasion I need to refer to Japanese
      > > audio people in print. I usually use their
      > > full name or, once they are indentified , their
      > > last name only(which is how TAS usually does names)
      > > but I do not want to be ill mannered.
      > > If it is really true that it would be conventional
      > > in Japan in speaking English to add san I would
      > > be glad to know.
      > >
      > > REG
      > >
      > > --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, Roman Zajcew <Roman@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > On 5/8/2013 1:41 PM, Robert wrote:
      > > >
      > > > > PS It is an affectation that has become
      > > > > common to attach a san to Japanese men's
      > > > > names in contexts like this. I am not
      > > > > Japanese but my understanding is that
      > > > > the san is a title, like "mister" in English
      > > > > except for coming after the name.
      > > > > In English, one would not write in identifying
      > > > > a person being interviewed a Mr in front
      > > > > of his name every time. One would just
      > > > > write the last name. I think this repeated
      > > > > san is just someone trying to pretend to be
      > > > > with it in Japanese. I could be wrong--maybe
      > > > > this is really done in Japanese.
      > > >
      > > > In all of my conversations (both email/written and spoken), the -san was
      > > > used *all* the time by my Japanese colleagues. There was a time when I
      > > > was traveling to Japan every month or so on a joint project between Sun
      > > > and Fujitsu. And I never heard anyone's name used without the -san
      > > > suffix. Even by the most fluent of English speakers.
      > > >
      > > > And (on this side of the Pacific) when we had conversations with our
      > > > Japanese colleagues, we also added the -san suffix to everyone's names
      > > > (both non-Japanese names and Japanese names).
      > > >
      > > > Interestingly enough (interestingly to me, anyway), the Japanese would
      > > > add -san to an English first name (I was referred to as Roman-san). And
      > > > they did this even for my colleagues with easier last names. However,
      > > > for Japanese names the -san was added to the last name. I understand
      > > > that the -san prefix is flexible that way.
      > > >
      > > > There are things to criticize in the article. The use of -san is not one
      > > > of them.
      > > >
      > > > - Roman
      > > >
      > > > P.S. When I have conversations with some of my work friends who
      > > > participated in the Sun/Fujitsu project, we sometimes refer to each
      > > > other using the -san suffix. Now *that's* an affectation.
      > > >
      > > > > --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "musica_pt" <ricardo_franca@>
      > > wrote:
      > > > >>
      > > > >> I was reading a review of the Bravo and couldn't help posting this:
      > > > >>
      > > > >> Phil Gold (Enjoy the Music) - I am particularly interested in how you
      > > tailored the bass response of this speaker, since it seems to be to go flat
      > > to around 70 Hz and then to drop off really sharply, but avoids a bass hump
      > > in the 100-200 Hz range.
      > > > >>
      > > > >> Kiuchi-San (Combak) - As you know, Bravo! is made for us to our
      > > specifications by the Gradient speaker company in Finland and we supply
      > > wire and parts. When the Bravo! arrives from the manufacturer, we
      > > custom-tailor each one with our traditional resonance control technology so
      > > that the total frequency is flat, using our exclusive technical know-how.
      > > > >>
      > > > >> http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0605/combakbravo.htm
      > > > >>
      > > > >> R
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
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