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Re: [regsaudioforum] Re: Old times (Harmonix)

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  • Peter
    ...   You have to be careful not to mix the wrong color M&Ms or they won t work. ________________________________ From: Tom Mallin To:
    Message 1 of 14 , May 9, 2013
      > Three M&Ms candies were strategically positioned atop each speaker cabinet.  
       
      You have to be careful not to mix the wrong color M&Ms or they won't work.

      From: Tom Mallin <tmallin4@...>
      To: "regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com" <regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2013 4:30 PM
      Subject: Re: [regsaudioforum] Re: Old times (Harmonix)
       
      Any other little piece of material indeed.  As I recall, speaker manufacturer Jeff Joseph once demonstrated his speakers with his M&Ms tweak at an audio show.  Three M&Ms candies were strategically positioned atop each speaker cabinet.  I think it was a joke.
      On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 3:24 PM, Robert <regtas43@...> wrote:
       
      Microphonic effects are real enough--especially with
      tube equipment. But as TM says, ordinary kinds
      of damping that operate on usual principles
      do the job. The mystic sign dots are neither
      particularly effective nor needed.
      (The mystic dots do no more than
      any other little piece of material
      I think).
      REG

      --- In mailto:regsaudioforum%40yahoogroups.com, "thomasmallin" <tmallin4@...> wrote:
      >
      > I never tried the Harmonix thingies that attached to walls and windows, going with acoustical foam instead.
      >
      > However, back in the late 1980s, I did try the Harmonix and Marigo dots that attach to an equipment chassis. For equipment that is mounted on a "rigid" rack like the Target I was using as the time, these did in fact seem to clean up some high frequency hash/brittleness, stabilize images, and expand the stereo stage a bit.
      >
      > But once I started to use air suspension racks/tables/supports for electronics, these dots were no longer needed since those supports cut down on the vibrations transmitted through the equipment feet. Also, I found that other ways of damping resonant equipment covers (thin sheet metal covers, especially, ring like bells when tapped with your finger)produced even more sonic improvements. These days I either damp the cover with a Bright Star Little Rock, or a thick flat magazine like TAS or Stereophile. While those methods don't make the chassis as non-resonant when tapped as, for example, a big tree trunk, they can turn a resonant ring into a dull thud or click.
      >
      > I've also tried just removing rather than damping equipment covers as far back as my use of the old Mod Squad Passive Line Drive in the 1980s. For some equipment, like that Line Drive or the recent Oppo players, this provides more of a sonic improvement than just mechanically damping the cover; for other equipment, having the damped cover in place sounds cleaner.
      >
      > --- In mailto:regsaudioforum%40yahoogroups.com, Fred <glenndriech@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Spot on!
      > >
      > > Out, damned spot, out, I say!
      > > One. Two. More?  Why then, ‘tis time to undo it. Hell is murky.
      > >
      > > ;-)
      > > Fred.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ________________________________
      > > From: Robert <regtas43@>
      > > To: mailto:regsaudioforum%40yahoogroups.com
      > > Sent: Thursday, 9 May 2013, 2:07
      > > Subject: [regsaudioforum] Old times (Harmonix)
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >  
      > > For those who do not go back that far:
      > > Harmonix, if I am remembering this right,
      > > made as their first product some little
      > > lightweight black plastic(or some plastic like
      > > substance) that one attached/glued to the
      > > walls of your room at (one supposes) strategic
      > > points. These were supposed to control room
      > > resonances!
      > > No mechanism was explained via which a light object
      > > weighing a tiny fraction of the weight of
      > > a wall and being a tiny fraction of the wavelength
      > > of the sounds involved was supposed to alter
      > > bass response in any substantive way at all.
      > > Nor was it explained why these tiny discs
      > > would do something that say a tiddly wink would
      > > not.
      > > Lest we forget.....
      > >
      > > REG
      > >
      >

    • Fred
      Heh! :-) Actually it should have been say these three magical words . The victim can be expected to repeat Help Yourself? with a puzzled expression then
      Message 2 of 14 , May 9, 2013
        Heh! :-)

        Actually it should have been "say these three magical words".

        The victim can be expected to repeat "Help Yourself?" with a puzzled expression then pause and ask "what's the third word"?

        And (too late) hear....
        "Thanks!"

        :-)

        Fred.


        From: musica_pt <ricardo_franca@...>
        To: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thursday, 9 May 2013, 19:40
        Subject: [regsaudioforum] Re: Old times (Harmonix)

         
        My stomach muscles are still sore from all the laughing...thanks.

        R

        --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, Fred <glenndriech@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        > Thomas,
        >
        > In the spirit of enlightenment, imagine yourself transported to my emporium of delights.
        > Now take out your wallet and say these magical words.....
        >
        > "Help Yourself"
        >
        > ;-)
        >
        > Fred.
        >
        >
        >
        > ________________________________
        > From: thomasmallin <tmallin4@...>
        > To: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Thursday, 9 May 2013, 17:51
        > Subject: [regsaudioforum] Re: Old times (Harmonix)
        >
        >
        >
        >  
        > I never tried the Harmonix thingies that attached to walls and windows, going with acoustical foam instead.
        >
        > However, back in the late 1980s, I did try the Harmonix and Marigo dots that attach to an equipment chassis. For equipment that is mounted on a "rigid" rack like the Target I was using as the time, these did in fact seem to clean up some high frequency hash/brittleness, stabilize images, and expand the stereo stage a bit.
        >
        > But once I started to use air suspension racks/tables/supports for electronics, these dots were no longer needed since those supports cut down on the vibrations transmitted through the equipment feet. Also, I found that other ways of damping resonant equipment covers (thin sheet metal covers, especially, ring like bells when tapped with your finger)produced even more sonic improvements. These days I either damp the cover with a Bright Star Little Rock, or a thick flat magazine like TAS or Stereophile. While those methods don't make the chassis as non-resonant when tapped as, for example, a big tree trunk, they can turn a resonant ring into a dull thud or click.
        >
        > I've also tried just removing rather than damping equipment covers as far back as my use of the old Mod Squad Passive Line Drive in the 1980s. For some equipment, like that Line Drive or the recent Oppo players, this provides more of a sonic improvement than just mechanically damping the cover; for other equipment, having the damped cover in place sounds cleaner.
        >
        > --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, Fred <glenndriech@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Spot on!
        > >
        > > Out, damned spot, out, I say!
        > > One. Two. More?  Why then, ‘tis time to undo it. Hell is murky.
        > >
        > > ;-)
        > > Fred.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ________________________________
        > > From: Robert <regtas43@>
        > > To: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
        > > Sent: Thursday, 9 May 2013, 2:07
        > > Subject: [regsaudioforum] Old times (Harmonix)
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >  
        > > For those who do not go back that far:
        > > Harmonix, if I am remembering this right,
        > > made as their first product some little
        > > lightweight black plastic(or some plastic like
        > > substance) that one attached/glued to the
        > > walls of your room at (one supposes) strategic
        > > points. These were supposed to control room
        > > resonances!
        > > No mechanism was explained via which a light object
        > > weighing a tiny fraction of the weight of
        > > a wall and being a tiny fraction of the wavelength
        > > of the sounds involved was supposed to alter
        > > bass response in any substantive way at all.
        > > Nor was it explained why these tiny discs
        > > would do something that say a tiddly wink would
        > > not.
        > > Lest we forget.....
        > >
        > > REG
        > >
        >



      • ghqsw12
        Ah, they then would say that the ears have a sensitivity better than that of any measuring equipment. And yes, the fertile brain too. ... Ah, they then would
        Message 3 of 14 , May 9, 2013
          Ah, they then would say that the ears have a sensitivity better than that of any measuring equipment.
          And yes, the fertile brain too.


          From: kevindoyle.forum <doyle.kevin@...>
          To: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Friday, 10 May 2013, 4:40
          Subject: [regsaudioforum] Re: Old times (Harmonix)

          An experiment in microphonic effects by Derek Hughes, post #39:

          http://www.harbeth.co.uk/usergroup/showthread.php?1248-What-s-quot-snake-oil-quot-and-what-s-not-interpreting-marketing-and-media-hype/page2

          "I thought I might do a simple experiment to see if I could detect any microphonic effects in one of my systems.

          I took the output of my power amp & connected it to my Clio test system, fed it with 1kHz sine wave at an output of 10volts (the meter said 10.146 volts, so the last figure gives a resolution of around 80dB)
          I then put the cable on hard surface & hit it hard with a hammer! The meter did not change even by 0.001 of a volt.

          I then hit my (old!) power amp with the hammer (not quite as hard) - again no change at all.

          I hit (gently!) the phono plug of the test box - again no change.
          My assumption is that striking equipment with hammer has a far greater force than would be exerted by a loudspeaker's output at several feet, so it would seem that microphony in these cases is unlikely.

          On the other hand, I remember listening to a high powered active system, peaking about 115dB I think, which caused the CD player in the room to mis-track due to the vibration. I have also had similar experiences with Record Players, you do not need to tap a platter very hard to get a significant output from the speakers. So electro-mechanical transducers seem to be affected to varying degrees."

          Comedy gold. 



          --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Mallin <tmallin4@...> wrote:
          >
          > Any other little piece of material indeed.  As I recall, speaker
          > manufacturer Jeff Joseph once demonstrated his speakers with his M&Ms tweak
          > at an audio show.  Three M&Ms candies were strategically positioned atop
          > each speaker cabinet.  I think it was a joke.
          >
          >
          > On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 3:24 PM, Robert <regtas43@...> wrote:
          >
          > > **
          > >
          > >
          > > Microphonic effects are real enough--especially with
          > > tube equipment. But as TM says, ordinary kinds
          > > of damping that operate on usual principles
          > > do the job. The mystic sign dots are neither
          > > particularly effective nor needed.
          > > (The mystic dots do no more than
          > > any other little piece of material
          > > I think).
          > > REG
          > >
          > > --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "thomasmallin" <tmallin4@>
          > > wrote:
          > > >
          > > > I never tried the Harmonix thingies that attached to walls and windows,
          > > going with acoustical foam instead.
          > > >
          > > > However, back in the late 1980s, I did try the Harmonix and Marigo dots
          > > that attach to an equipment chassis. For equipment that is mounted on a
          > > "rigid" rack like the Target I was using as the time, these did in fact
          > > seem to clean up some high frequency hash/brittleness, stabilize images,
          > > and expand the stereo stage a bit.
          > > >
          > > > But once I started to use air suspension racks/tables/supports for
          > > electronics, these dots were no longer needed since those supports cut down
          > > on the vibrations transmitted through the equipment feet. Also, I found
          > > that other ways of damping resonant equipment covers (thin sheet metal
          > > covers, especially, ring like bells when tapped with your finger)produced
          > > even more sonic improvements. These days I either damp the cover with a
          > > Bright Star Little Rock, or a thick flat magazine like TAS or Stereophile.
          > > While those methods don't make the chassis as non-resonant when tapped as,
          > > for example, a big tree trunk, they can turn a resonant ring into a dull
          > > thud or click.
          > > >
          > > > I've also tried just removing rather than damping equipment covers as
          > > far back as my use of the old Mod Squad Passive Line Drive in the 1980s.
          > > For some equipment, like that Line Drive or the recent Oppo players, this
          > > provides more of a sonic improvement than just mechanically damping the
          > > cover; for other equipment, having the damped cover in place sounds
          > > cleaner.
          > > >
          > > > --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, Fred <glenndriech@> wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > Spot on!
          > > > >
          > > > > Out, damned spot, out, I say!
          > > > > One. Two. More?  Why then, ‘tis time to undo it. Hell is murky.
          > > > >
          > > > > ;-)
          > > > > Fred.
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > ________________________________
          > > > > From: Robert <regtas43@>
          > > > > To: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
          > > > > Sent: Thursday, 9 May 2013, 2:07
          > > > > Subject: [regsaudioforum] Old times (Harmonix)
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > Â
          > > > > For those who do not go back that far:
          > > > > Harmonix, if I am remembering this right,
          > > > > made as their first product some little
          > > > > lightweight black plastic(or some plastic like
          > > > > substance) that one attached/glued to the
          > > > > walls of your room at (one supposes) strategic
          > > > > points. These were supposed to control room
          > > > > resonances!
          > > > > No mechanism was explained via which a light object
          > > > > weighing a tiny fraction of the weight of
          > > > > a wall and being a tiny fraction of the wavelength
          > > > > of the sounds involved was supposed to alter
          > > > > bass response in any substantive way at all.
          > > > > Nor was it explained why these tiny discs
          > > > > would do something that say a tiddly wink would
          > > > > not.
          > > > > Lest we forget.....
          > > > >
          > > > > REG
          > > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > 
          > >
          >



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        • Robert
          There is nothing whatever to suggest that the little discs with a magic sign inside do anything at all that would not also happen with any other little plastic
          Message 4 of 14 , May 13, 2013
            There is nothing whatever to suggest that the
            little discs with a magic sign inside do anything
            at all that would not also happen with any
            other little plastic disc that was attached in the same way.

            Everyone who has seen a cello wolf tone eliminator in action
            knows that small object placed at a strategic point can affect
            resonant behavior(sample general principle as spot cone doping).
            But putting magic signs inside ...and charging extra.
            Not my cup of tea as you can imagine.

            REG

            --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, Peter <alcomdata@...> wrote:
            >
            > > ". . . damp the cover with . . . a thick flat magazine like TAS or Stereophile."
            >  
            > Thick?  You want thick?  How about the October 13, 1987 issue of PC Magazine (which I used to have).  It's reprinted in full (all 568 pages, including covers) here:  http://books.google.com/books?id=r7jD_sikrJQC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false%c3%82%c2%a0
            >  
            > By the way, I think at least one issue passed the 1,000 page mark not long after that.  Those were the days. . .
            >
            >
            > ________________________________
            > From: thomasmallin <tmallin4@...>
            > To: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2013 12:51 PM
            > Subject: [regsaudioforum] Re: Old times (Harmonix)
            >
            >  
            > I never tried the Harmonix thingies that attached to walls and windows, going with acoustical foam instead.
            >
            > However, back in the late 1980s, I did try the Harmonix and Marigo dots that attach to an equipment chassis. For equipment that is mounted on a "rigid" rack like the Target I was using as the time, these did in fact seem to clean up some high frequency hash/brittleness, stabilize images, and expand the stereo stage a bit.
            >
            > But once I started to use air suspension racks/tables/supports for electronics, these dots were no longer needed since those supports cut down on the vibrations transmitted through the equipment feet. Also, I found that other ways of damping resonant equipment covers (thin sheet metal covers, especially, ring like bells when tapped with your finger)produced even more sonic improvements. These days I either damp the cover with a Bright Star Little Rock, or a thick flat magazine like TAS or Stereophile. While those methods don't make the chassis as non-resonant when tapped as, for example, a big tree trunk, they can turn a resonant ring into a dull thud or click.
            >
            > I've also tried just removing rather than damping equipment covers as far back as my use of the old Mod Squad Passive Line Drive in the 1980s. For some equipment, like that Line Drive or the recent Oppo players, this provides more of a sonic improvement than just mechanically damping the cover; for other equipment, having the damped cover in place sounds cleaner.
            >
            > --- In mailto:regsaudioforum%40yahoogroups.com, Fred <glenndriech@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Spot on!
            > >
            > > Out, damned spot, out, I say!
            > > One. Two. More?  Why then, ‘tis time to undo it. Hell is murky.
            > >
            > > ;-)
            > > Fred.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ________________________________
            > > From: Robert <regtas43@>
            > > To: mailto:regsaudioforum%40yahoogroups.com
            > > Sent: Thursday, 9 May 2013, 2:07
            > > Subject: [regsaudioforum] Old times (Harmonix)
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >  
            > > For those who do not go back that far:
            > > Harmonix, if I am remembering this right,
            > > made as their first product some little
            > > lightweight black plastic(or some plastic like
            > > substance) that one attached/glued to the
            > > walls of your room at (one supposes) strategic
            > > points. These were supposed to control room
            > > resonances!
            > > No mechanism was explained via which a light object
            > > weighing a tiny fraction of the weight of
            > > a wall and being a tiny fraction of the wavelength
            > > of the sounds involved was supposed to alter
            > > bass response in any substantive way at all.
            > > Nor was it explained why these tiny discs
            > > would do something that say a tiddly wink would
            > > not.
            > > Lest we forget.....
            > >
            > > REG
            > >
            >
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