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Re: [regsaudioforum] Re: Fifteen best

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  • Tom Mallin
    Yes, a sense of high-frequency compression is another description I ve used before in describing the sound of undecoded HDCD with the resultant over-emphasis
    Message 1 of 38 , Mar 25, 2013
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      Yes, a sense of high-frequency compression is another description I've used before in describing the sound of undecoded HDCD with the resultant over-emphasis of high frequency detail and noise and the "graininess" term I used.  We definitely agree that it sounds wrong.

      RR's new releases are still HDCD.  While RR mostly uses multiple microphones rather than simple coincident or quasi-coincident miking, Keith Johnson is a real artist at this and RR's efforts are usually quite spatially coherent sounding, certainly moreso that Telarcs, for example.

      High bit rate digital does allow for more leeway in terms of getting everything to sound best at the 16/44 Redbook standard.  That may be another reason why more recent digital recordings of classical music tend to sound better generally than older ones.  But I think the major reason is the change to simpler, more rational (e.g., fewer mikes and a bit more distant placement of them) miking techniques.



      On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 11:18 AM, Robert <regtas43@...> wrote:
       

      I don't think bright is the right word.
      Undecoded HDCD has to my ears a kind of
      grain to it, a sense of low level detail
      pushed up un-naturally. This is not
      too conspicuous on some kinds of material
      and is more so on other kinds.
      A direct comparison of decoded and undecoded
      is useful here.
      In any case, it is all over now. HDCD is
      a relic, no longer really of interest,
      in the world of high bit rate digital
      (or even CD as it is doable today).
      REG

      --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Bomwell, Alan" <abomwell@...> wrote:
      >
      > I have this recording as well and don't find it bright. I especially like the Song of The Nightingale.
      >
      > Al
      >
      > From: musica_pt [mailto:ricardo_franca@...]
      > Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 11:35 AM
      > To: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com <regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com>
      > Subject: [regsaudioforum] Re: Fifteen best
      >
      >
      >
      > Thanks for the info; the Dolby analogy is quite a good "visual" reference.
      > I guess this means I have to withdraw my opinion in regard to the RR Stravinsky CD.
      >
      > Cheers,
      > Ricardo
      >
      > --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com<mailto:regsaudioforum%40yahoogroups.com>, Tom Mallin <tmallin4@> wrote:
      > >
      > > I "stress" the need to decode the HDCD encoding because, without decoding,
      > > the recordings do not sound nearly as excellent as they truly are. RRs are
      > > so excellent anyway that many don't seem to care very much about decoding.
      > > But, believe me, as one who appreciated RRs for several years before I got
      > > them decoded, the decoding makes them quite a bit better indeed.
      > >
      > > Decoding HDCD removes the excess brightness and graininess. You may not
      > > have noticed this about RRs, but once you hear the decoding of the HDCD
      > > ones, you will know instantly what I mean.
      > >
      > > Decoding also eliminates the slight to moderate dynamic "pumping" which is
      > > present in the HDCD recordings heard without decoding. The more sudden
      > > dynamic shifts are present in the recording, the more audible the "pumping"
      > > is.
      > >
      > > This "pumping" as well as the excess brightness, is similar in nature, but
      > > much more subtle in amount, to what one hears when you play back a Dolby C
      > > recorded cassette with Dolby B decoding.
      > >
      > > On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 9:21 AM, musica_pt <ricardo_franca@> wrote:
      > >
      > > > **
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Hello Tom,
      > > >
      > > > Why are you putting so much stress on HDCD decoding in regard to RR'?
      > > > Is the performance that much better than when played back on a regular CD
      > > > player?
      > > >
      > > > I only have one of their CDs (Stravinsky, Eiji Oue) and my player doesn't
      > > > sport HDCD decoding.
      > > >
      > > > Soundwise I prefer Dorian's recording of "Le Sacre du Printemps"
      > > > (Dallas/Mata); I find that RR' detail presentation is in my view a bit
      > > > overly pushy or unnatural.
      > > >
      > > > Cheers,
      > > > Ricardo
      > > >
      > > > --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com<mailto:regsaudioforum%40yahoogroups.com>, Tom Mallin <tmallin4@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > I second a number of choices Al made. Here are my comments on his list:
      > > > >
      > > > > Vaughan Williams-The Wasps -RR 129 (I have not heard)
      > > > >
      > > > > Fiesta- RR 38 (I agree)
      > > > >
      > > > > Facade-Walton-RR16 (excellent--this would not have been in my top choices
      > > > > had Al not pointed it out, but now that he has, I won't argue)
      > > > >
      > > > > Requiem-Rutter-RR57 (I agree--this has long been my very favorite choice
      > > > > for equipment testing, assuming the CD player can decode HDCD. It is one
      > > > > of the few disks of truly reference caliber sonics which has solo and
      > > > > choral vocal as well as orchestral music, as well as beautiful music I
      > > > > never tire of. My very top choice.)
      > > > >
      > > > > Copland 100- RR-93 (I agree as long as you can decode HDCD)
      > > > >
      > > > > From the age of Swing- Dick (This would be on my non-classical list, yes,
      > > > > with the same HDCD caveat)
      > > > > Hyman RR-72
      > > > >
      > > > > Baroque Duet-Kathleen Battle-Wynton Marsalis- SK46672 (I have not heard)
      > > > >
      > > > > Bolero, La Valse & Other Works-Cincinnati- (Lopez-Cobos)-Telarc (I have
      > > > not
      > > > > heard)
      > > > >
      > > > > Concierto De Aranjues -Rodrigo- Naples Philharmonic- Kunzel -Telarc (I
      > > > > agree; one of the best sounding Telarcs I have)
      > > > >
      > > > > The Three Cornered Hat-De Falla-Cincinnati- (Lopez-Cobos) Telarc (I have
      > > > > not heard)
      > > > >
      > > > > A Midsummer Night's Dream- Atlanta-Levi-Telarc (I have not heard)
      > > > >
      > > > > Nojima Plays List- RR (I agree--among the best piano recordings)
      > > > >
      > > > > Serenade for 13 Winds-Mozart-Mackerras-Telarc (I have not heard)
      > > > >
      > > > > Shadow Dances- Orpheus Chamber Orchestra- DGG (I have not heard)
      > > > >
      > > > > Bassoon Concertos- Manchester Camerata-Hyperion (I have not heard)
      > > > >
      > > > > I would definitely add the Dallas/Mata Rachmaninoff Symphonic Dances on
      > > > Pro
      > > > > Arte (or, alternatively, the RR 96 Minnesota version of this if you can
      > > > > decode HDCD--I recant on calling this recording "phasey" sounding--system
      > > > > and set up changes have eliminated this perception)
      > > > >
      > > > > I would also add REG's Dvorak disk. That has the most realistic tone of a
      > > > > violin heard close up in a small room I have ever heard. Most close-up
      > > > > violin recordings make the instrument sound at least a bit and usually
      > > > much
      > > > > too bright. This one is very near perfect in terms of a violin's actual
      > > > > tonality. It may even accurately depict REG's own violin and his playing
      > > > > of it, but then I've never heard that. I frequently hear solo violins in
      > > > a
      > > > > living room concert context from just a few feet away and this is what
      > > > they
      > > > > sound like.
      > > > >
      > > > > To the RR selections, if you don't have HDCD, I'd add RR-48, the first RR
      > > > > disk of Malcolm Arnold music. The HRx version is even better than the CD
      > > > > through the Oppo 105, but the CD is very fine indeed.
      > > > >
      > > > > I'll give this more thought and add more later, with perhaps a separate
      > > > > non-classical list.
      > > > >
      > > > > On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 3:58 AM, Bomwell, Alan <abomwell@>wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > > **
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > As you can see I like RR and Telarc Here's fifteen.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Al
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Vaughan Williams-The Wasps -RR 129
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Fiesta- RR 38
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Facade-Walton-RR16
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Requiem-Rutter-RR57
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Copland 100- RR-93
      > > > > >
      > > > > > From the age of Swing- Dick
      > > > > > Hyman RR-72
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Baroque Duet-Kathleen Battle-Wynton Marsalis- SK46672
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Bolero, La Valse & Other Works-Cincinnati- (Lopez-Cobos)-Telarc
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Concierto De Aranjues -Rodrigo- Naples Philharmonic- Kunzel -Telarc
      > > > > >
      > > > > > The Three Cornered Hat-De Falla-Cincinnati- (Lopez-Cobos) Telarc
      > > > > >
      > > > > > A Midsummer Night's Dream- Atlanta-Levi-Telarc
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Nojima Plays List- RR
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Serenade for 13 Winds-Mozart-Mackerras-Telarc
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Shadow Dances- Orpheus Chamber Orchestra- DGG
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Bassoon Concertos- Manchester Camerata-Hyperion
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >


    • Edward
      I ll venture out there with this title, the Salon Orchestra of Belvedere (Weimar) on the Obligat label:
      Message 38 of 38 , Apr 1, 2013
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        I'll venture out there with this title, the Salon Orchestra of Belvedere (Weimar) on the Obligat label:

        http://www.amazon.com/Salon-Music-Orchestra-Belvedere/dp/B00000C2DJ/ref=sr_1_216?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1364575487&sr=1-216&keywords=robert+stolz

        Better photo of cover art here:

        http://www.allmusic.com/album/release/belvedere-salon-orchestra-weimar-mr0002090368

        Charming salon music played competently though not expertly by a string quartet plus double bass and piano(s). This recording is up close and vivid, which I don't usually like in chamber music recordings. But there is something peculiarly, hypnotically lifelike about it, all the same. I would be curious to hear what the recording technique experts here think of it. If you say it was obviously made with three dozen omnis spaced ten leagues apart, well, I guess I'll go back to adjusting my stereo!

        Edward
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