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Re: Being naive

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  • laurie483000
    I did read something similar fairly recently in an old BBC paper - which is related to this matter about getting used to non neutral speakers. They found that
    Message 1 of 6 , Mar 1, 2013
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      I did read something similar fairly recently in an old BBC paper - which is related to this matter about getting used to non neutral speakers.

      They found that if initially one listens a while to some pink noise with a deliberate sharp dip in the response around a particularly frequency, when a similar noise without that dip is then played, the note that represents that dip in the previous signal seems to be readily apparent! It was considered therefore important to take this into account when doing listening tests in speaker developement and be wary of getting accustomed to speakers with any such a marked dip(s). I wonder if this has implications for the advice that when equalising in rooms, sharp dips are said to be nowhere near as audible as sharp peaks - but in the process, maybe one is is actually getting used to non neutral sound.



      Laurie



      --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <regtas43@...> wrote:
      >
      > One thing that seems quite odd in Toole
      > is that he seems almost upset about the fact
      > that some speakers that he disapproves of
      > have been well reviewed(hard to say which
      > ones because he does not name brands).
      >
      >
      > I am not sure it is true but there is a story of how the BBC ran a
      > study showing that if people listened a lot to a
      > (purposefully) nonneutral speaker, they came to prefer its
      > sound and to regard neutral speakers as colored
      > in a way complementary to the non-neutral speaker
      > that they were listening to.
    • Robert
      This is interesting but not really what I was referring to, which was not a matter of relatively quick comparisons, but rather of habituation over a period of
      Message 2 of 6 , Mar 1, 2013
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        This is interesting but not really
        what I was referring to, which
        was not a matter of relatively quick
        comparisons, but rather of habituation
        over a period of weeks.
        Part of the story was that the participants
        were not supposed to listen to any
        real ,live music during the habituation period.
        REG

        --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "laurie483000" <laurie483000@...> wrote:
        >
        > I did read something similar fairly recently in an old BBC paper - which is related to this matter about getting used to non neutral speakers.
        >
        > They found that if initially one listens a while to some pink noise with a deliberate sharp dip in the response around a particularly frequency, when a similar noise without that dip is then played, the note that represents that dip in the previous signal seems to be readily apparent! It was considered therefore important to take this into account when doing listening tests in speaker developement and be wary of getting accustomed to speakers with any such a marked dip(s). I wonder if this has implications for the advice that when equalising in rooms, sharp dips are said to be nowhere near as audible as sharp peaks - but in the process, maybe one is is actually getting used to non neutral sound.
        >
        >
        >
        > Laurie
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <regtas43@> wrote:
        > >
        > > One thing that seems quite odd in Toole
        > > is that he seems almost upset about the fact
        > > that some speakers that he disapproves of
        > > have been well reviewed(hard to say which
        > > ones because he does not name brands).
        > >
        > >
        > > I am not sure it is true but there is a story of how the BBC ran a
        > > study showing that if people listened a lot to a
        > > (purposefully) nonneutral speaker, they came to prefer its
        > > sound and to regard neutral speakers as colored
        > > in a way complementary to the non-neutral speaker
        > > that they were listening to.
        >
      • laurie483000
        I found the reference to the aspect I mentioned - it was an article in Wireless World - Harwood 1976 on factors in loudspeaker quality - those not often
        Message 3 of 6 , Mar 1, 2013
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          I found the reference to the aspect I mentioned - it was an article in Wireless World - Harwood 1976 on factors in loudspeaker quality - those not often mentioned in the technical press in those days. Page 53 section headed A/B Testing :-

          http://www.linkwitzlab.com/Wireless%20World/Harwood-BBC.htm


          I couldn't quickly see anything about the getting used to and preferring non neutral speakers longer term, but it may be there.


          Laurie


          --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <regtas43@...> wrote:
          >
          > This is interesting but not really
          > what I was referring to, which
          > was not a matter of relatively quick
          > comparisons, but rather of habituation
          > over a period of weeks.
          > Part of the story was that the participants
          > were not supposed to listen to any
          > real ,live music during the habituation period.
          > REG
          >
          > --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "laurie483000" <laurie483000@> wrote:
          > >
          > > I did read something similar fairly recently in an old BBC paper - which is related to this matter about getting used to non neutral speakers.
          > >
          > > They found that if initially one listens a while to some pink noise with a deliberate sharp dip in the response around a particularly frequency, when a similar noise without that dip is then played, the note that represents that dip in the previous signal seems to be readily apparent! It was considered therefore important to take this into account when doing listening tests in speaker developement and be wary of getting accustomed to speakers with any such a marked dip(s). I wonder if this has implications for the advice that when equalising in rooms, sharp dips are said to be nowhere near as audible as sharp peaks - but in the process, maybe one is is actually getting used to non neutral sound.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Laurie
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <regtas43@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > One thing that seems quite odd in Toole
          > > > is that he seems almost upset about the fact
          > > > that some speakers that he disapproves of
          > > > have been well reviewed(hard to say which
          > > > ones because he does not name brands).
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > I am not sure it is true but there is a story of how the BBC ran a
          > > > study showing that if people listened a lot to a
          > > > (purposefully) nonneutral speaker, they came to prefer its
          > > > sound and to regard neutral speakers as colored
          > > > in a way complementary to the non-neutral speaker
          > > > that they were listening to.
          > >
          >
        • Robert
          Really interesting article! Thanks for the link REG
          Message 4 of 6 , Mar 1, 2013
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            Really interesting article!
            Thanks for the link
            REG

            --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "laurie483000" <laurie483000@...> wrote:
            >
            > I found the reference to the aspect I mentioned - it was an article in Wireless World - Harwood 1976 on factors in loudspeaker quality - those not often mentioned in the technical press in those days. Page 53 section headed A/B Testing :-
            >
            > http://www.linkwitzlab.com/Wireless%20World/Harwood-BBC.htm
            >
            >
            > I couldn't quickly see anything about the getting used to and preferring non neutral speakers longer term, but it may be there.
            >
            >
            > Laurie
            >
            >
            > --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <regtas43@> wrote:
            > >
            > > This is interesting but not really
            > > what I was referring to, which
            > > was not a matter of relatively quick
            > > comparisons, but rather of habituation
            > > over a period of weeks.
            > > Part of the story was that the participants
            > > were not supposed to listen to any
            > > real ,live music during the habituation period.
            > > REG
            > >
            > > --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "laurie483000" <laurie483000@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > I did read something similar fairly recently in an old BBC paper - which is related to this matter about getting used to non neutral speakers.
            > > >
            > > > They found that if initially one listens a while to some pink noise with a deliberate sharp dip in the response around a particularly frequency, when a similar noise without that dip is then played, the note that represents that dip in the previous signal seems to be readily apparent! It was considered therefore important to take this into account when doing listening tests in speaker developement and be wary of getting accustomed to speakers with any such a marked dip(s). I wonder if this has implications for the advice that when equalising in rooms, sharp dips are said to be nowhere near as audible as sharp peaks - but in the process, maybe one is is actually getting used to non neutral sound.
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Laurie
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <regtas43@> wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > One thing that seems quite odd in Toole
            > > > > is that he seems almost upset about the fact
            > > > > that some speakers that he disapproves of
            > > > > have been well reviewed(hard to say which
            > > > > ones because he does not name brands).
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > I am not sure it is true but there is a story of how the BBC ran a
            > > > > study showing that if people listened a lot to a
            > > > > (purposefully) nonneutral speaker, they came to prefer its
            > > > > sound and to regard neutral speakers as colored
            > > > > in a way complementary to the non-neutral speaker
            > > > > that they were listening to.
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • HM
            When I was young I had a WirelessWorld subsription and I was amazed by the vertical slot infront of the woofers of BBC monitors speakers. I thought it was a
            Message 5 of 6 , Mar 1, 2013
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              When I was young I had a WirelessWorld subsription and I was amazed by the vertical slot infront of the woofers of BBC monitors speakers.
              I thought it was a kind of lowpass filter but a side effect is a change in horizontal dispersion pattern at higher frequencies.
              BR HM

              --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "laurie483000" <laurie483000@...> wrote:
              >
              > I found the reference to the aspect I mentioned - it was an article in Wireless World - Harwood 1976 on factors in loudspeaker quality - those not often mentioned in the technical press in those days. Page 53 section headed A/B Testing :-
              >
              > http://www.linkwitzlab.com/Wireless%20World/Harwood-BBC.htm
              >
              >
              > I couldn't quickly see anything about the getting used to and preferring non neutral speakers longer term, but it may be there.
              >
              >
              > Laurie
              >
              >
              > --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <regtas43@> wrote:
              > >
              > > This is interesting but not really
              > > what I was referring to, which
              > > was not a matter of relatively quick
              > > comparisons, but rather of habituation
              > > over a period of weeks.
              > > Part of the story was that the participants
              > > were not supposed to listen to any
              > > real ,live music during the habituation period.
              > > REG
              > >
              > > --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "laurie483000" <laurie483000@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > I did read something similar fairly recently in an old BBC paper - which is related to this matter about getting used to non neutral speakers.
              > > >
              > > > They found that if initially one listens a while to some pink noise with a deliberate sharp dip in the response around a particularly frequency, when a similar noise without that dip is then played, the note that represents that dip in the previous signal seems to be readily apparent! It was considered therefore important to take this into account when doing listening tests in speaker developement and be wary of getting accustomed to speakers with any such a marked dip(s). I wonder if this has implications for the advice that when equalising in rooms, sharp dips are said to be nowhere near as audible as sharp peaks - but in the process, maybe one is is actually getting used to non neutral sound.
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Laurie
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <regtas43@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > One thing that seems quite odd in Toole
              > > > > is that he seems almost upset about the fact
              > > > > that some speakers that he disapproves of
              > > > > have been well reviewed(hard to say which
              > > > > ones because he does not name brands).
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > I am not sure it is true but there is a story of how the BBC ran a
              > > > > study showing that if people listened a lot to a
              > > > > (purposefully) nonneutral speaker, they came to prefer its
              > > > > sound and to regard neutral speakers as colored
              > > > > in a way complementary to the non-neutral speaker
              > > > > that they were listening to.
              > > >
              > >
              >
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