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Diffuse field etc

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  • Robert
    I guess it is becoming apparent why, back when people in the commercial world actually thought about things that really mattered instead of worrying about
    Message 1 of 6 , Jan 4, 2013
      I guess it is becoming apparent why, back when
      people in the commercial world actually
      thought about things that really mattered
      instead of worrying about reducing cabinet
      talk from 20 dB below threshold to 40 dB below,
      AR came up with the idea that what worked
      was playing back with the sound dominated
      by diffuse field--as it is in concerts.
      No wonder that their speakers were indistinguishable
      from live music--in a live environment.

      Not to say that I necessarily want this personally
      in all respects. But HM, while he is a mite
      shall we say obsessive on the subject(are not we all
      on one thing and another), is qutie right--
      stereo recording and playback is a wild mishmash
      of stuff as it is actually practiced and
      the words "ideal playback" die on one's lips
      when confronted with recordings as they are
      made by guess and by golly.

      The trouble is compounded by the fact--and it is
      a fact--that when one tries to solve these
      problems by surround theory, the complexities
      multiply. First order Ambisonics is all
      messed up too. Ammbisonics really only comes
      into its own with higher orders--and those
      are not happening commercially. Not now
      and likely not for decades if ever.

      One can almost understand the nostalgia
      movement--the interest in vinyl playback(too
      bad that everyone nearly has forgotten if
      they ever knew how it works!) and so on.

      Still, all that said, it really is useful to
      adjust your speakers so that pink noise sounds
      hoogeneous and correct. Then...one might
      want to think of listening to some music.

      REG
    • HM
      obsessive is a good description. If it was chosen to describe me, I agree. I thought this forum is a good place for obsessed people, obsessed by music and
      Message 2 of 6 , Jan 5, 2013
        "obsessive" is a good description. If it was chosen to describe me, I agree. I thought this forum is a good place for obsessed people, obsessed by music and getting it right.
        One has built a listening room around his speakers with extreme acoustic treatment and RCS - chapeau!
        One has a wide selection of speakers and applies EQ/RCS - chapeau!
        One has done recordings, knows the live situation and EQs his speakers to meet the memory - chapeau!
        One has a made his experience with too many bugs at RCS and created consequently the best correction system I could perceive so far - chapeau!

        If we were happy with the results achieved at home we probably would not take the time and write and discuss.
        Maybe there is a reason - because we all know there are many more aspects than only THE ONE we currently see.

        I have recently lost contact with my harddisc storing 2500 CDs, all in correct polarity and most of them "shuffled". I will place my top 20 list soon after restoring my collection. My favorites will be just as useless to you (if you dont apply polarity correction and shuffling) as a speaker without applying the right EQ, placed in a room without RCS/EQ to compensate room resonances.

        I listen to pop music, jazz, solo, clerical, chamber, opera and symphonic music. To much to reduce optimization of the system to one genre.
        Obsessive regards
        Hans-Martin

        --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" wrote:
        >
        > I guess it is becoming apparent why, back when
        > people in the commercial world actually
        > thought about things that really mattered
        > instead of worrying about reducing cabinet
        > talk from 20 dB below threshold to 40 dB below,
        > AR came up with the idea that what worked
        > was playing back with the sound dominated
        > by diffuse field--as it is in concerts.
        > No wonder that their speakers were indistinguishable
        > from live music--in a live environment.
        >
        > Not to say that I necessarily want this personally
        > in all respects. But HM, while he is a mite
        > shall we say obsessive on the subject(are not we all
        > on one thing and another), is qutie right--
        > stereo recording and playback is a wild mishmash
        > of stuff as it is actually practiced and
        > the words "ideal playback" die on one's lips
        > when confronted with recordings as they are
        > made by guess and by golly.
        >
        > The trouble is compounded by the fact--and it is
        > a fact--that when one tries to solve these
        > problems by surround theory, the complexities
        > multiply. First order Ambisonics is all
        > messed up too. Ammbisonics really only comes
        > into its own with higher orders--and those
        > are not happening commercially. Not now
        > and likely not for decades if ever.
        >
        > One can almost understand the nostalgia
        > movement--the interest in vinyl playback(too
        > bad that everyone nearly has forgotten if
        > they ever knew how it works!) and so on.
        >
        > Still, all that said, it really is useful to
        > adjust your speakers so that pink noise sounds
        > hoogeneous and correct. Then...one might
        > want to think of listening to some music.
        >
        > REG
        >
      • Robert
        I do include myself in the obsessed category! Everything that is important is accomplished is accomplished by obsessed people. Polarity is no problem--most of
        Message 3 of 6 , Jan 5, 2013
          I do include myself in the obsessed category!
          Everything that is important is accomplished
          is accomplished by obsessed people.
          Polarity is no problem--most of us
          and surely I have a polarity reversal
          switch on the preamp. Shuffling is a
          bit more difficult--easy I might point
          out in principle but one needs
          either a not really standard
          hardware device or a computer
          program to do it in practice

          REG


          --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "HM" wrote:
          >
          > "obsessive" is a good description. If it was chosen to describe me, I agree. I thought this forum is a good place for obsessed people, obsessed by music and getting it right.
          > One has built a listening room around his speakers with extreme acoustic treatment and RCS - chapeau!
          > One has a wide selection of speakers and applies EQ/RCS - chapeau!
          > One has done recordings, knows the live situation and EQs his speakers to meet the memory - chapeau!
          > One has a made his experience with too many bugs at RCS and created consequently the best correction system I could perceive so far - chapeau!
          >
          > If we were happy with the results achieved at home we probably would not take the time and write and discuss.
          > Maybe there is a reason - because we all know there are many more aspects than only THE ONE we currently see.
          >
          > I have recently lost contact with my harddisc storing 2500 CDs, all in correct polarity and most of them "shuffled". I will place my top 20 list soon after restoring my collection. My favorites will be just as useless to you (if you dont apply polarity correction and shuffling) as a speaker without applying the right EQ, placed in a room without RCS/EQ to compensate room resonances.
          >
          > I listen to pop music, jazz, solo, clerical, chamber, opera and symphonic music. To much to reduce optimization of the system to one genre.
          > Obsessive regards
          > Hans-Martin
          >
          > --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" wrote:
          > >
          > > I guess it is becoming apparent why, back when
          > > people in the commercial world actually
          > > thought about things that really mattered
          > > instead of worrying about reducing cabinet
          > > talk from 20 dB below threshold to 40 dB below,
          > > AR came up with the idea that what worked
          > > was playing back with the sound dominated
          > > by diffuse field--as it is in concerts.
          > > No wonder that their speakers were indistinguishable
          > > from live music--in a live environment.
          > >
          > > Not to say that I necessarily want this personally
          > > in all respects. But HM, while he is a mite
          > > shall we say obsessive on the subject(are not we all
          > > on one thing and another), is qutie right--
          > > stereo recording and playback is a wild mishmash
          > > of stuff as it is actually practiced and
          > > the words "ideal playback" die on one's lips
          > > when confronted with recordings as they are
          > > made by guess and by golly.
          > >
          > > The trouble is compounded by the fact--and it is
          > > a fact--that when one tries to solve these
          > > problems by surround theory, the complexities
          > > multiply. First order Ambisonics is all
          > > messed up too. Ammbisonics really only comes
          > > into its own with higher orders--and those
          > > are not happening commercially. Not now
          > > and likely not for decades if ever.
          > >
          > > One can almost understand the nostalgia
          > > movement--the interest in vinyl playback(too
          > > bad that everyone nearly has forgotten if
          > > they ever knew how it works!) and so on.
          > >
          > > Still, all that said, it really is useful to
          > > adjust your speakers so that pink noise sounds
          > > hoogeneous and correct. Then...one might
          > > want to think of listening to some music.
          > >
          > > REG
          > >
          >
        • Edward
          Hi Hans-Martin I sincerely hope that you were able to recover the music files from your hard drive if it was not backed up. That represents a lot of work! You
          Message 4 of 6 , Jan 8, 2013
            Hi Hans-Martin
            I sincerely hope that you were able to recover the music files from your hard drive if it was not backed up. That represents a lot of work!

            You may have covered this in a previous post, but may I ask what program you use to "shuffle" your music files? Are the benefits easy to hear even with conventional multi-miked recordings?

            Thanks
            Edward

            --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "HM" wrote:
            >
            >
            > I have recently lost contact with my harddisc storing 2500 CDs, all in correct polarity and most of them "shuffled". I will place my top 20 list soon after restoring my collection. My favorites will be just as useless to you (if you dont apply polarity correction and shuffling) as a speaker without applying the right EQ, placed in a room without RCS/EQ to compensate room resonances.
            >
            >
          • Tom Mallin
            Note that the Behringer DEQ2496, in addition to EQ, has a built in adjustable shuffling feature. This is described on page 11 of the manual at the following
            Message 5 of 6 , Jan 8, 2013
              Note that the Behringer DEQ2496, in addition to EQ, has a built in adjustable shuffling feature.  This is described on page 11 of the manual at the following link:


              The Behringer has several other stereo width adjustments as well. I did not use the other width adjustments since I sat close and centered between the speakers.  I heard little effect from the shuffling control of the Behringer in my system.

              The Legacy Audio Whisper speakers I once owned had some bass width expansion built into the Steradian bass processor which came with the speakers.  THAT, I heard as a nice enhancement of spaciousness compared to adding similar EQ via a Z-Systems rdp-1 that I owned at the same time.

              If you place stereo subwoofers so that from the listening spot they are visually outboard from the main speakers these add spaciousness as well.  Part of the effect may be caused simply by enhancing the bass extension.  Perhaps another bit may come from making the source of the lower frequencies angularly further apart than the upper frequencies.    

              On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 1:30 PM, Edward <Edward_Wu@...> wrote:
               

              Hi Hans-Martin
              I sincerely hope that you were able to recover the music files from your hard drive if it was not backed up. That represents a lot of work!

              You may have covered this in a previous post, but may I ask what program you use to "shuffle" your music files? Are the benefits easy to hear even with conventional multi-miked recordings?

              Thanks
              Edward

              --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "HM" wrote:
              >
              >
              > I have recently lost contact with my harddisc storing 2500 CDs, all in correct polarity and most of them "shuffled". I will place my top 20 list soon after restoring my collection. My favorites will be just as useless to you (if you dont apply polarity correction and shuffling) as a speaker without applying the right EQ, placed in a room without RCS/EQ to compensate room resonances.
              >
              >


            • Robert
              I surely hope so too. That would be awful if so much work were lost. I too would be interested in how you do your shuffling . I would like to try this out, on
              Message 6 of 6 , Jan 8, 2013
                I surely hope so too. That would be awful if
                so much work were lost.
                I too would be interested in how you do your
                "shuffling". I would like to try this out,
                on the WL pure Blumlein recordings in particular.
                Best wishes for recovering the hard drive.
                REG
                PS One can hire people to recover the data
                from nonworking hard drives--it is not
                cheap but given how much work is represented
                here, it might be worth it.


                --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Edward" wrote:
                >
                > Hi Hans-Martin
                > I sincerely hope that you were able to recover the music files from your hard drive if it was not backed up. That represents a lot of work!
                >
                > You may have covered this in a previous post, but may I ask what program you use to "shuffle" your music files? Are the benefits easy to hear even with conventional multi-miked recordings?
                >
                > Thanks
                > Edward
                >
                > --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "HM" wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > > I have recently lost contact with my harddisc storing 2500 CDs, all in correct polarity and most of them "shuffled". I will place my top 20 list soon after restoring my collection. My favorites will be just as useless to you (if you dont apply polarity correction and shuffling) as a speaker without applying the right EQ, placed in a room without RCS/EQ to compensate room resonances.
                > >
                > >
                >
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