Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Recognizing things

Expand Messages
  • Edward
    Hi Robert Could this radiation problem with Magneplanars be addressed by putting the tweeter strip in the middle of the speaker, sandwiched by the midrange and
    Message 1 of 13 , Nov 1, 2012
    • 0 Attachment
      Hi Robert

      Could this radiation problem with Magneplanars be addressed by putting the tweeter strip in the middle of the speaker, sandwiched by the midrange and bass panels (each now divided in two)? In other words, a sideways line-source MTM, sort of like the architecture of the big McIntosh speakers that you reviewed?

      Maybe the sound would lose its appeal for Maggie fans....

      Edward

      --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <regtas43@...> wrote:
      >
      > >
      > It is a fact that Magnepans often have quite flat in room power response. I recall some measurements that Martin Colloms did
      > of some one of them(MG3s maybe?) where the power response
      > graph looked almost drawn with a ruler. He described it as "almost too good to be true"
      >
      > Ubnfortunately, this has rather little to do with using the speakers
      > in an ordinary way.
      >
      > In particular, to look at the total room response(power response) eliminates the main problem of the speakers, namely that they have a completely screwy radiation pattern because of being in effect a very large midrange radiator next to a very narrow tweeter.
      > The radiation pattern is very odd as a result, like listening to a two way speaker with a 12 inch woofer and a 1 inch tweeter turned on its side. Look at figure 4 here
      > http://www.stereophile.com/content/magnepan-magneplanar-mg36r-loudspeaker-measurements-part-2
      > This makes the speakers tend to sound extremely colored if
      > you are listening to the direct radiation in any sense.
    • Peter
      ... http://www.stereophile.com/content/magnepan-magneplanar-mg36r-loudspeaker-measurements-part-2 This makes the speakers tend to sound extremely colored if
      Message 2 of 13 , Nov 1, 2012
      • 0 Attachment
        > Look at figure 4 here
        http://www.stereophile.com/content/magnepan-magneplanar-mg36r-loudspeaker-measurements-part-2
        This makes the speakers tend to sound extremely colored if
        you are listening to the direct radiation in any sense.

        The same article finished up with this (online only--not in the dead-tree edition) from "Siegfied" (sic) Linkwitz:
         
         
        In the review, Atkinson also repeatedly pointed out the difficulty of measuring large panel speakers without having a large anechoic chamber.


      • Robert
        This would surely help. It is one of the oddities of the audio industry that this idea is hardly ever used--even though it occurred already as early as the
        Message 3 of 13 , Nov 1, 2012
        • 0 Attachment
          This would surely help.
          It is one of the oddities of the audio industry
          that this idea is hardly ever used--even though
          it occurred already as early as the original Quads.
          It is not just Magnepan, King Sound also put
          the tweeter element off to the side in the PrinceII
          so that only in one particular spot (horzontally
          speaking) did the speaker work correctly.
          SOmetime the audio industry seems almost stubbornly
          to do things wrong.
          REG


          --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Edward" <Edward_Wu@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi Robert
          >
          > Could this radiation problem with Magneplanars be addressed by putting the tweeter strip in the middle of the speaker, sandwiched by the midrange and bass panels (each now divided in two)? In other words, a sideways line-source MTM, sort of like the architecture of the big McIntosh speakers that you reviewed?
          >
          > Maybe the sound would lose its appeal for Maggie fans....
          >
          > Edward
          >
          > --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <regtas43@> wrote:
          > >
          > > >
          > > It is a fact that Magnepans often have quite flat in room power response. I recall some measurements that Martin Colloms did
          > > of some one of them(MG3s maybe?) where the power response
          > > graph looked almost drawn with a ruler. He described it as "almost too good to be true"
          > >
          > > Ubnfortunately, this has rather little to do with using the speakers
          > > in an ordinary way.
          > >
          > > In particular, to look at the total room response(power response) eliminates the main problem of the speakers, namely that they have a completely screwy radiation pattern because of being in effect a very large midrange radiator next to a very narrow tweeter.
          > > The radiation pattern is very odd as a result, like listening to a two way speaker with a 12 inch woofer and a 1 inch tweeter turned on its side. Look at figure 4 here
          > > http://www.stereophile.com/content/magnepan-magneplanar-mg36r-loudspeaker-measurements-part-2
          > > This makes the speakers tend to sound extremely colored if
          > > you are listening to the direct radiation in any sense.
          >
        • Robert
          But in fact there is nothing difficult to see at all about the weird off axis pattern. The details of this might have been hard to measure but (pace Tony)
          Message 4 of 13 , Nov 1, 2012
          • 0 Attachment
            But in fact there is nothing difficult to
            see at all about the weird off axis pattern.
            The details of this might have been
            hard to measure but (pace Tony) anyone
            who knows anything about how things radiate
            would know that a big wide midrange panel
            crossed over to a narrow tweeter panel at one
            side was going to have a weird pattern.

            There is no doubt that this is so.
            What the audible effects are, your call.
            To me , these speakers , all of them I
            have ever heard, sounded oddly colored indeed.

            This is simply a no -no, to put a wide radiator
            next to a ribbon. In the DALI Megalines
            the mid radiator was not that wide--but
            even so, one had to sit in a precise spot. (DALI
            supplied a template to lay on the floor to indicate
            the axis on which you had to sit!)
            And =with a really wide mid panel , one is in big trouble,

            Some people may not care,but that does not mean
            the problem is not there. It just means that
            some people are more sensitive to exact frequency
            response behavior than others.

            REG

            --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, Peter <alcomdata@...> wrote:
            >
            > > Look at figure 4 here
            > http://www.stereophile.com/content/magnepan-magneplanar-mg36r-loudspeaker-measurements-part-2
            > This makes the speakers tend to sound extremely colored if
            > you are listening to the direct radiation in any sense.
            >
            > The same article finished up with this (online only--not in the dead-tree edition) from "Siegfied" (sic) Linkwitz:
            >  
            > http://www.stereophile.com/content/magnepan-magneplanar-mg36r-loudspeaker-more-comments%c2%a0
            >  
            > In the review, Atkinson also repeatedly pointed out the difficulty of measuring large panel speakers without having a large anechoic chamber.
            >
            >
            >
            > ________________________________
            >
          • Edward
            Hi Robert Perhaps fans of multi-way panel speakers just like the soundstage effects of tweeter strips on the edge, radiating almost into free space. The
            Message 5 of 13 , Nov 2, 2012
            • 0 Attachment
              Hi Robert

              Perhaps fans of multi-way panel speakers just like the "soundstage" effects of tweeter strips on the edge, radiating almost into free space. The panel equivalent of the narrow-front box speaker?

              Edward



              --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <regtas43@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              >>> It is not just Magnepan, King Sound also put
              > the tweeter element off to the side in the PrinceII
              > so that only in one particular spot (horzontally
              > speaking) did the speaker work correctly.
              > SOmetime the audio industry seems almost stubbornly
              > to do things wrong.
              > REG
              >
            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.