Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [regsaudioforum] reality check

Expand Messages
  • Tom Mallin
    With equipment which allows both balanced and unbalanced connections, and which actually does have some sort of balanced circuitry (e.g., transformer derived
    Message 1 of 48 , Nov 30, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      With equipment which allows both balanced and unbalanced connections, and which actually does have some sort of balanced circuitry (e.g., transformer derived or actual redundant active circuitry used for each phase), I have usually judged the balanced connection to be sonically superior even where the connection path is only a meter long.  I frequently have been able to use the RCA and XLR versions of the same interconnect cable to evaluate this.  The Bryston components sound great either way, but greater balanced, for example. 
       
      With digital links, there is really no comparison between coaxial SPDIF and AES/EBU:  the latter tromps the former with the Apogee WydeEye cable, for example.

      >>> rooknrol@...
      11/30/05 06:29PM >>>
      Most of my contribution to the connections thread has been mostly hypothetical in
      search of new knowledge, and I have achieved that goal.

      I have not yet found it necessary to use contact treatment on my hifi hookup which is all
      unbalanced on RCA phono which are mostly gold with gold garden variety RCA cables.

      I have experience designing and manufacturing professional audio using both balanced
      and unbalanced interfaces. So far as hi-fi is concerned I believe the RCA phono
      unbalanced system to not be a weak link in the signal chain.

      I can make an argument for not using balanced in domestic hi-fi but only a much weaker
      one for using balanced interfaces. The main advantage of balanced is rejection of
      interference, most homes just aren't affected by radiated or conducted interference, in
      the way that a TV production set or movie set is, thanks to all the noisy lighting control
      gear, so the prime advantage of balanced would remain unutilised at home.

      I'm keeping my (gold) Radio Shack RCAs!

      my latest CD purchase is playing as I write, wonderful Beethoven piano sonatas.


      Ted



      On 30 Nov 2005 at 18:35, regtas43 wrote:

      >
      > Of course things ought to be connected
      solidly.
      >
      > However, I still await a logical answer to how it can
      matter a lot
      > about the details of this when every recording you own
      (nearly) has
      > been made with connections which are very far from ideal
      by the
      > standards which are being discussed here.
      >
      > If
      you really care about such things, it seems to me that the first
      > thing
      to do is to use balanced connections, which really do work better.
      >
      > Sometimes audiophiles are like "Someday my prince will come".
      >
      They are getting ready to play the perfect recording --which will never
      >
      arrive.
      >
      > REG
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
      >
      > *   Visit your group
      "regsaudioforum" on the web.
      >     
      >
      *   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      >    
      regsaudioforum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >     
      > *   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
      of Service.
      >
      >
      >



    • Tom Mallin
      Yes, warranties are an issue for me, as well. The only way for me to make a replacement top would be to order a stock top from the manufacturer of the
      Message 48 of 48 , Dec 2, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        Yes, warranties are an issue for me, as well.
         
        The only way for me to "make" a replacement top would be to order a stock top from the manufacturer of the component and then drill it.  I wouldn't trust a sheet metal jobber to get the screw holes lined up correctly.  Even the manufacturers have a heck of a time doing that correctly, especially for sheet metal tops.


        >>> rtuck@... 12/02/05 03:16PM >>>
        Hi Tom
         
        If I were you I would not do it but if wish to tread this path why not make a replacement top with grommeted holes?
         
        Richard
         
        PS Robert, if contacts are not an issue, why are you leading Tom down this path to warranty invalidation?


        From: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom Mallin
        Sent: 02 December 2005 21:06
        To: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [regsaudioforum] Re: reality check

        For electronics, if you make the soldered connections inside the chassis and leave the external connectors in place, how does the connecting wire exit the chassis without drilling a hole?  Are you suggesting leaving the top off the component?  (When I owned a passive Mod Squad Line Drive I left the cover off it because it seemed to sound a bit better that way--less chassis vibration perhaps.)

        >>>
        regonaudio@... 12/02/05 02:21PM >>>
        It is n ot so hard. Don't you have a solder-capable friend?
        You really would like it, and it is quite reversible. If you do it
        inside and leave the external connectors in place , it is really not
        a problem ot put things back. Just be sure to use a heat sink
        upstream so you do not melt things!!!

        REG

        PS This really does work. I do not do it because I have to plug stuff
        in and out all the time. But if you have a stable system....--- In
        regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Mallin" <tmallin@p...> wrote:
        >
        > Don't think I haven't thought of this!

        > But such changes would be modifications which could not always
        be
        > easily reversed.  I know that there are folks whose soldering
        and
        > mechanical skills are good enough to reverse most any such mod if
        need
        > be without much of a visual trace, much less any damage. 
        But I
        don't
        > think I'm one of them.  While I don't sell things
        often, every once
        in a
        > while I sell lots of things and would hate to
        be unable to sell an
        item
        > because it's connections were now useless
        to most folks.

        >
        > >>> regonaudio@a...
        12/02/05 12:45PM >>>
        > TM, why not solder things together? It is
        cheap, it is permanent,
        and
        > most of all it works better, much
        better. All this contact cleaning
        > is just like an engine additive for a
        dying car instead of getting
        > the engine fixed.
        > I can almost
        promise you that you will love it.
        >
        > REG
        >
        > --- In
        regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Mallin" <tmallin@p...>
        >
        wrote:
        > >
        > > I reckon that I've spent more just on ProGold
        and other contact
        > cleaners
        > > and enhancers over the years
        than "the average Joe" spends on all
        > audio
        > >
        equipment.  I'm confident that my ProGold purchases alone have
        kept
        > > Music Direct in the black for many, many years.  When
        I call, they
        > > recognize my voice instantly and I hear the snickering
        and the
        > rubbing
        > > of hands together in the background as
        they anticipate my
        inevitable
        > > inclusion of yet more ProGold in
        my even-more-inevitable humongous
        > > telephone order.  And when I
        show up in person, there is much
        > rejoicing
        > > when I arrive
        and before I leave they are already preparing to
        > slaughter
        > >
        the fattened calf in preparation for the feast and early home-
        going
        >
        to
        > > come, for they know they have met the day's (or week's) income
        > quota.
        > > 
        > > Only a slight exaggeration,
        according to my faithful spouse.
        > >
        > >
        > > >>> rtuck@t... 12/02/05 06:53AM >>>
        > >
        > >
        Hi Robert
        > > 
        > > Anybody who spends as much money on
        audio systems as the average
        > Joe in
        > > this group has got be
        a bit neurotic about something - the fact
        > that we
        > > have to
        scour the world to find like-minded individuals proves
        that.
        > > 
        > > I'm neurotic about contacts but, since there's no local
        chapter of
        > > Contacts Anonymous in the area, I resort to a few
        dollars worth
        of
        > drug
        > > therapy in the form of
        ProGold.  Moreover, this is not a totally
        > > irrational neurosis
        since I spend my day working with surfaces and
        > > metal-insulator
        junctions - so I know there will be an effect but
        > that
        > >
        it's hard to quantify - so ProGold is my comfort blanket.  It's a
        > > harmless activity that boosts the GDP of the USA in some small
        way.
        > > 
        > > I believe that your neurosis is deviation from
        a completely flat
        > > frequency response.
        > > 
        > > Tom admits to being more than a bit neurotic about imaging.
        > > 
        > > George's is that he may be spending too much money on
        his system.
        > > 
        > > And so it goes
        on......................
        > > 
        > > One man's concern is
        another man's neurosis.
        > > 
        > > Richard
        > > 
        > > PS
        > > 
        > > Why meditate when
        you can worry.
        > > 
        > > Worrying is meditation carried
        out by realists.
        > > 
        > > Don't just worry about big
        things, small things need to be worried
        > > about too.
        > >
        > > From: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
        > >
        [mailto:regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of regtas43
        > > Sent:
        02 December 2005 00:12
        > > To: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
        > > Subject: [regsaudioforum] Re: reality check
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > -Precisely.
        > >
        > > eventhough I
        think the contact stuff is a bit neurotic(and whynot
        > > solder? A
        couple of hours of work and bingo), here is a true
        story:
        > >
        > > Doug Sax cofounder of Sheffield hates gold contacts. One day he
        > came
        > > to work ,listened to his monitoring system without
        looking at
        > > anything and said "I hear the sound of gold".
        > > A shamefaced employee admitted that a cable had pulled out of its
        > > connector the night before and been replaced with an otherwise
        > > identical  cable with gold connectors.
        > >
        > > This
        would give me pause about gold(if I thought any of this
        > > amounted
        to anything much).
        > > So silver is a problem for you. but what is
        wrong with soldering?
        > >
        > > REG
        > > -- In
        regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, Neal Van Berg <nealvb@y...>
        > >
        wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Which turntables have you owned that
        makes you believe your CD
        > > player sounds better?  A good
        turntable provides isolation from
        > > acoustic feedback, until this
        happens the turntable has problems.
        > > >   
        > > >   Using Exact audio Copy (free software for the PC) I can
        make
        > > error free copies of my cds onto my hard drive.  When
        playing
        back
        > > throught the Squeeze Box the sound gets close to
        my turntable
        minus
        > > what ever vinyl noise might be there. 
        The SB2 has comparable
        depth
        > > and imaging to my S.O.T.A, it
        isn't as good as the SOTA but is
        very
        > > convinient to use. 
        CD players tend to lack the natural sound of
        > > Records or the
        Squeeze Box.
        > > >   
        > > >  
        Certainly SACD and DVDA has a superior theoretical dynamic
        > > range,
        but how many recording take advantage of that?  When I
        play
        > > some of my old Shefield Labs to show off my hifi to first timers
        > > they all say the say thing " wow I can hear everything", they all
        > > say the same thing.
        > > >   
        > > >   Neal
        > > >
        > > > Richard Tuck
        <rtuck@t...> wrote:
        > > >      
        Oh come on Robert you said some time ago that noise and
        > > distortion
        made vinyl a out of date medium.  It's fine for those
        > >
        treasured recordings but it's not state of the art.
        > > >   
        > > >   In some cases I preaching
        to the choir on this and in others
        no
        > > amount of explanation
        will change entrenched views.
        > > >   
        > > >   I'm going to toss in the towel on this - if anyone in the
        choir
        > > wants to chat some more we can do it off line.
        > > >   
        > > >   Richard
        > > >
        > > >    
        > > >
        ---------------------------------
        > > >   From:
        regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
        > >
        [mailto:regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of regtas43
        > > >
        Sent: 01 December 2005 18:42
        > > > To:
        regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
        > > > Subject: [regsaudioforum] Re:
        reality check
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >  
        > > > Aw, come on. High End audio was developed
        using vinyl. If you
        > > cannot
        > > > hear it using vinyl,
        it is probably not really very important.
        > > > Hasn't it occurred
        to you all by now that this contact thing is
        > > > really a
        non-issue except in the case of really corroded
        > contacts?
        > > >
        > > > And if it goes away when you break and remake
        connections--why
        > not
        > > > just do that? Six months
        waiting...most of us unplug and replug
        > > > things a lot more than
        that. And even if we don't, it is not a
        > lot
        > > of
        > > > trouble to do it.
        > > >
        > > > If vinyl sounds
        good, so will CD. Except for noise and
        inability
        > > to
        > > > deal with huge volumes, no one really thinks there is a whole
        lot
        > > > wrong intrinsically with vinyl , do they?
        > > >
        If you do, you must never have heard a direct to disc record
        that
        > > was
        > > > being played for the first time.
        > > >
        > > > Any kind of clouding or veiling that amounted to anything
        would
        > be
        > > > obvious on such material.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Anyway, those of
        you who care ought to go for the solder or
        solid
        > > > silver.
        Anything else is just a half measure.
        > > > (I have tried the solder
        thing--a pain but a gain albeit of a
        > very
        > > > very minor
        sort to my mind).
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        REG
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > PS It is true that
        single ended connections sometimes have some
        > > small
        > > > sonic advantage over balanced(re certain types of distortion).
        > But
        > > > small is the operative word. And low noise is nice. If
        balanced
        > > makes
        > > > things "hard" then we have all
        had it totally  because ALL
        > > recordings
        > > > are
        made with balanced connections--it is standard in the pro
        > >
        world.
        > > >
        > > > - In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com,
        "Richard Tuck"
        <rtuck@t...>
        > > > wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > Hi Neal
        > > > > 
        > > > > I'm not familiar with all the kit you describe - is there a
        > > state-
        > > > of-the-art
        > > > > CD
        source in the system.  If you are only using LP as a
        source
        > > then
        > > > such a
        > > > > relatively subtle
        effect may be masked by the shortcomings of
        > > vinyl.
        > > > > 
        > > > > If you don't use the tape loop - leave a
        pair of ICs in place
        > > > (don't unplug
        > > > >
        during the test period) and come back from time to time.  If
        > the
        > > > effect I
        > > > > describe is going to happen
        you need time and warmth. 
        > > > > 
        > > > > After say 6 months clean, or at least break and mate, all the
        > > > connectors in
        > > > > the chain except the ones in the tape
        loop - then repeat the
        > > test.
        > > > > 
        > > > > Richard
        > > > >
        > > > >   _____ 
        > > > >
        > > > >
        From: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
        > > >
        [mailto:regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com]
        > > > > On Behalf Of
        Neal Van Berg
        > > > > Sent: 01 December 2005 15:38
        > > > > To: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
        > > > > Subject:
        RE: [regsaudioforum] Re: reality check
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > Hi Richard,
        > > > > 
        > > > > I had just plugged them in.  I was doing some
        experiments.  I
        > > tried
        > > > > different cables
        to see if I could hear them in the tape
        loop,
        > > the
        > > > answer
        > > > > was no, I also set my DBX 1231 Equalizer
        to neutral and
        > listened
        > > > for that
        > > > > and the answer was no.  The cables I used are all several
        years
        > > old
        > > > or
        > > > > older.  My
        technique is to switch the tape loop in and out
        many
        > > >
        times until
        > > > > I don't know whether it is in or out when I
        press the button
        > and
        > > I
        > > > close
        my
        > > > > eyes while doing this test so as not to trick
        myself.  I do
        > > clean my
        > > > > connections
        once or twice a year as I change things around. 
        I
        > > have
        > > > used pro
        > > > > gold in the distant past and
        didn't notice any change.  It is
        > > > possible that
        > > > > your ears are more sensitive than mine.  For the record I
        have
        > > Green
        > > > > Mountain Audio Continuum 3s,
        SOTA Millennium with SME IV.Vi
        > arm,
        > > > Squeeze
        Box
        > > > > 2, McCormack RLD-1 with mods and the NuForce Ref 9
        amplifiers. 
        > > I
        > > > have never
        > > > > heard the Harbeths but did have a pair of B&W Nautilus 800s
        > > before
        > > > switching
        > > > > to the
        Continuum 3s.  The Mid range on the B&W's needed EQ
        > where
        > > the
        > > > > Continuum 3s doesn't in my listening
        room, same room for both.
        > > > > 
        > > > >
        Let me confess that I am a dealer for all the products I
        > > mentioned
        > > > that I
        > > > > own, but not for the McCormack
        preamp or DBX or B&W.  I
        operate
        > > > under
        the
        > > > > following principal: my customers often end up as my
        friends
        so
        > > I do
        > > > > everything I can to
        find the best sounding equipment for the
        > > least
        > > >
        amount of
        > > > > money, it is likely I will end up at their home
        listening to
        > > their
        > > > system
        > > > > with them.
        > > > > 
        > > > > PS I'm
        still waiting for the list of audiophile standards.
        > > > > 
        > > > > Neal
        > > > >
        > > > >
        Richard Tuck <rtuck@t...> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > How long was the test cable in the tape loop?
        > > > > 
        > > > > Remember this effect, if audible will occur after months
        of
        > > unbroken
        > > > > connection?
        > > > > 
        > > > > Richard
        > > > >
        > > > >   _____ 
        > > > >
        > > > > From: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
        > > >
        [mailto:regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com]
        > > > > On Behalf Of
        regtas43
        > > > > Sent: 01 December 2005 00:01
        > > > > To: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
        > > > > Subject:
        [regsaudioforum] Re: reality check
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > Not consistent with the explanation of why it is
        inaudible in
        > > the
        > > > > tape loop. You can't have
        ti bothways!!
        > > > >
        > > > > REG--- In
        regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Tuck"
        > > > >
        <rtuck@t...> wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Hi Robert
        > > > > > 
        > > > > > 1)
        As Tom said this clouding of the audio scene is
        cumulative
        > > > e.g.
        > > > > just
        > > > > > because the
        music on my Redbook CDs has gone through one
        > > > brickwall
        > > > > filter, I
        > > > > > see no reason to
        subject it to the effects of another on
        > > > playback,
        > > > > so I
        > > > > > upsample.
        > > > > > 
        > > > > > 2) I guess that the saving grace in many
        a recording set-up
        > is
        > > > the
        > > > >
        frequent
        > > > > > making and breaking of connections that
        have a wiping
        > action. 
        > > > Ted
        > > > > also said
        > > > > > they have maintenance guys who go
        around and clean things. 
        > > The
        > > > > reality
        is
        > > > > > that some recordings are clear as crystal others
        are muddy -

        > > > could
        > > > > the
        > > > > > contact status at the time contribute to this difference?
        > > > > > 
        > > > > > I think it's a case of
        preparing for the best  recordings
        > > rather
        > > > > than
        > > > > > accepting the worst and saying ho
        hum..................
        > > > > > 
        > > > > > Richard
        > > > > >   _____ 
        > > > > >
        > > > > > From: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
        > > > > [mailto:regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com]
        > > > > > On Behalf Of regtas43
        > > > > > Sent: 30
        November 2005 18:35
        > > > > > To:
        regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
        > > > > > Subject:
        [regsaudioforum] reality check
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Of course
        things ought to be connected solidly.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > However, I still await a logical answer to how it can
        matter
        > a
        > > > lot
        > > > > > about the details
        of this when every recording you own
        > > (nearly)
        > > > > has
        > > > > > been made with connections which are very
        far from ideal by
        > > the
        > > > > > standards which
        are being discussed here.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > If you really care about such things, it seems to me that
        the
        > > > > first
        > > > > > thing to do is to use balanced
        connections, which really do
        > > work
        > > > >
        better.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Sometimes
        audiophiles are like "Someday my prince will
        come".
        > > > > > They are getting ready to play the perfect recording --
        which
        > > will
        > > > > never
        > > > > >
        arrive.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > REG
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >   _____ 
        > > > > >
        > > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >      
        > > > > > *      Visit your group
        "regsaudioforum
        > > > > > <
        href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/regsaudioforum">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/regsaudioforum> " on the web.
        > > > > >  
        > > > > >
        > > > > > *      To unsubscribe
        from this group, send an email to:
        > > > > > 
        regsaudioforum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > > > > >
        <mailto:regsaudioforum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
        > > > >
        subject=Unsubscribe>
        > > > > >  
        > > > > >
        > > > > > *      Your
        use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
        > > Terms
        > > > of
        > > > > Service
        > > > > > <
        href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >   _____
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > Regards,
        > > > >
        > > > > Neal Van Berg
        > > > >
        href="http://moonlight-audio.com/">http://moonlight-audio.com <http://moonlight-audio.com/>
        > > > > Castle Rock Co. 80109
        > > > > Phone 720 308 4000
        > > > > Fax 303 660 6554
        > > > >            
        > > > <
        href="http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/14.gif">http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/14.gif>
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >   _____ 
        > > > >
        > > > >
        Yahoo!
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
        <http://pa.yahoo.com/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=36035/*http://music.
        > > y
        > > > ahoo.c
        > > > > om/unlimited/> Music
        Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.
        > > Try
        > > > it
        free.
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        SPONSORED LINKS
        > > > > Electronics
        > > > >
        <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
        > > >
        t=ms&k=Electronics&w1=Electronics&w2=Hobby+and
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
        +craft+supply&w3=Craft+hobby&w4=Hobbies+and+crafts&w5=Electronics+hob
        > > b
        > > > y&w6=H
        > > > >
        obby+electronics&c=6&s=132&.sig=MmqJPH5dl3VfdKLNnW_W7g>       
        > > Hobby
        > > > > <
        href="http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?">http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
        > > > t=ms&k=Hobby+and+craft+supply&w1=Electronics&w
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
        2=Hobby+and+craft+supply&w3=Craft+hobby&w4=Hobbies+and+crafts&w5=Elec
        > > t
        > > > ronics
        > > > >
        +hobby&w6=Hobby+electronics&c=6&s=132&.sig=snO79aSWw5JJ-
        > > O1xP727MQ>
        > > > and craft
        > > > >
        supply       Craft
        > > > > <
        href="http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?">http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
        > > > t=ms&k=Craft+hobby&w1=Electronics&w2=Hobby+and
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
        +craft+supply&w3=Craft+hobby&w4=Hobbies+and+crafts&w5=Electronics+hob
        > > b
        > > > y&w6=H
        > > > >
        obby+electronics&c=6&s=132&.sig=f06vn3LQXx9Rnb3eTT0RZg> hobby
        > > >      
        > > > >
        Hobbies
        > > > > <
        href="http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?">http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
        > > > t=ms&k=Hobbies+and+crafts&w1=Electronics&w2=Ho
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
        bby+and+craft+supply&w3=Craft+hobby&w4=Hobbies+and+crafts&w5=Electron
        > > i
        > > > cs+hob
        > > > >
        by&w6=Hobby+electronics&c=6&s=132&.sig=L-
        EyFvGq2luCEDqv5nqLYw>
        > > and
        > > > crafts
        > > > >
        Electronics
        > > > > <
        href="http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?">http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
        > > > t=ms&k=Electronics+hobby&w1=Electronics&w2=Hob
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
        by+and+craft+supply&w3=Craft+hobby&w4=Hobbies+and+crafts&w5=Electroni
        > > c
        > > > s+hobb
        > > > >
        y&w6=Hobby+electronics&c=6&s=132&.sig=YplTvxi2PeLLp_w7yWZ5bQ>
        > > hobby
        > > > > Hobby
        > > > > <
        href="http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?">http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
        > > > t=ms&k=Hobby+electronics&w1=Electronics&w2=Hob
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
        by+and+craft+supply&w3=Craft+hobby&w4=Hobbies+and+crafts&w5=Electroni
        > > c
        > > > s+hobb
        > > > >
        y&w6=Hobby+electronics&c=6&s=132&.sig=itS8Y3fBVyr9ekjd6wWnRg>
        > > > electronics
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >   _____ 
        > > > >
        > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >      
        > > > > *      Visit your group
        "regsaudioforum
        > > > > <
        href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/regsaudioforum">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/regsaudioforum> " on the web.
        > > > >  
        > > > >
        > > > > *      To unsubscribe from this
        group, send an email to:
        > > > > 
        regsaudioforum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > > > >
        <mailto:regsaudioforum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
        > > >
        subject=Unsubscribe>
        > > > >  
        > > > >
        > > > > *      Your use of Yahoo!
        Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
        Terms
        > > of
        > > >
        Service
        > > > > <
        href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >   _____
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >   SPONSORED LINKS
        > > >         Electronics  
        Hobby and craft supply   Craft hobby    
        > > Hobbies and crafts   Electronics hobby   Hobby
        electronics
        > > >    
        > > >
        ---------------------------------
        > > >   YAHOO! GROUPS
        LINKS
        > > >
        > > >    
        > > >     Visit your group "regsaudioforum" on the
        web.
        > > >    
        > > >     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
        to:
        > > >  regsaudioforum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > > >    
        > > >    
        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
        > >
        Service.
        > > >
        > > >    
        > > > ---------------------------------
        > > >  
        > > >
        > > >  
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Regards,
        > > >
        > > > Neal Van Berg
        > > >
        href="http://moonlight-audio.com/">http://moonlight-audio.com
        > > > Castle Rock Co. 80109
        > > > Phone 720 308 4000
        > > > Fax 303 660 6554
        > > >          
        > > >
        > > >            
        > > > ---------------------------------
        > > > 
        Yahoo! Personals
        > > >  Skip the bars and set-ups and start
        using Yahoo! Personals for
        > > free
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > SPONSORED LINKS
        > > Electronics Hobby and craft supply Craft
        hobby Hobbies and crafts
        > > Electronics hobby Hobby electronics
        > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
        > >
        > >  Visit your
        group "regsaudioforum" on the web.
        > >    To unsubscribe
        from this group, send an email to:
        > > 
        regsaudioforum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > >    Your
        use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
        > Service.
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > YAHOO! GROUPS
        LINKS
        >
        >  Visit your group "regsaudioforum" on the
        web.
        >    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
        to:
        >  regsaudioforum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
        Terms of
        Service.
        >




      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.