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Re: [regsaudioforum] Going one's own way

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  • robert jorgensen
    ... This happens on a large scale at the moment and not just in our area of interest. Truly worrying!!! ... It will and it is happening I m afraid. A somewhat
    Message 1 of 13 , Nov 8, 2010
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      On Sun, Nov 7, 2010 at 6:03 PM, Robert <regonaudio@...> wrote:

      >
      > The danger is that because the mass media are so influential, it could happen that people of the most dubious qualities could in fact cause major cultural shifts. In the past, only the colossal geniuses
      > could move standards. In the world of the internet, things have come to seem less stable.
      >

      This happens on a large scale at the moment and not just in our area
      of interest. Truly worrying!!!

      >
      > One hopes that they are as in the German proverb I quote
      > so often about the great oak tree and the puppy dog peeing,
      > that this will have no influence on music as a whole. And of course I also try to fight its influence on audio itself. But it is the former that matters. I had more faith before Disney Hall. But the fact that people liked it(if indeed they did--the good press could be just making the best of a "done deal" since it is hard to change the hall now) made me wonder if maybe the audio ideal of clarity at the cost of warmth was not propagating itself into the culture as a whole,
      > as Forsyth presciently predicted in his chapter "The HiFi Concert Hall".
      >
      > It would be a shame if this happened.
      >
      > REG

      It will and it is happening I'm afraid.

      A somewhat gloomy Robert in Brussels
    • Robert
      That makes two gloomy Roberts. I would suggest the following. It is a small thing but it is the best one can do easily if one is not in the reviewing business.
      Message 2 of 13 , Nov 8, 2010
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        That makes two gloomy Roberts.

        I would suggest the following. It is a small
        thing but it is the best one can do easily if
        one is not in the reviewing business.

        Why doesn't everyone here--and I am sure that is most
        of us--who object to the cold, thin sound of a dip between 100 and 200 Hz and a rising treble write a letter to Stereophile every time
        they publiush a review with measurements of a speaker
        like that wherein they do not SAY it is like that.

        If they started getting lots of letter saying that the readers wanted to have a truthful description of this and so on, I think they
        might change their ways. Magazines are influenced by what their
        subscribers and readers think and want!

        The address (for email ) is
        [Letters to the Editor]

        stletters@...


        Believe me, if everytime they did this(which is almost every issue)
        they got a hundred letters--and there are more than 200 of us here--
        objecting to the absence of truthful reviewing and the inaccurate
        description, they would rethink what they were doing in a hurry.

        We have a saying in English(for our European members)
        "The squeaky wheel gets the grease"
        People who object get attention. Private gripes as here
        are very gratifying emotionally perhaps--I vent a lot here,
        as you have noticed I am sure as do some of the rest of you.
        But it is the PUBLIC objections that can really cause change
        and improvement.

        Stereophile, like any organization dependent on the public for survival, is sensitive to the opinions of the public. But they have no way to know what these opinions are except through communication from you!

        Please write--every time. It will help in the end.

        It can be short. But please do it.

        REG

        PS Since TAS does not
        publish measurements, it is less easy to look an article
        and say with certainty, this speakers is thin and bright and the
        review should say so. With Stereophile, the evidence
        is provided within the article. If you wanted
        to , you could write to TAS and quote Sphile's measurements
        when the TAS review seemed inconsistent with them, in particular
        about the issues of the lower midrange hole and the exaggerated treble ,two areas where measurements really mean something definite.
        Of course the lower midrange hole is affected by placement, but the
        excess treble is not. And even the lower mid hole ought to be mentioned as a problem potentially--if the SPhile reviewers do not
        get it right with placement, what chance is there that the
        customer will get it right. At least the issue could be raised legitimately.

        Pressure for the truth is the duty of the concerned citizen!


        --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, robert jorgensen <robert.jorgensen@...> wrote:
        >
        > On Sun, Nov 7, 2010 at 6:03 PM, Robert <regonaudio@...> wrote:
        >
        > >
        > > The danger is that because the mass media are so influential, it could happen that people of the most dubious qualities could in fact cause major cultural shifts. In the past, only the colossal geniuses
        > > could move standards. In the world of the internet, things have come to seem less stable.
        > >
        >
        > This happens on a large scale at the moment and not just in our area
        > of interest. Truly worrying!!!
        >
        > >
        > > One hopes that they are as in the German proverb I quote
        > > so often about the great oak tree and the puppy dog peeing,
        > > that this will have no influence on music as a whole. And of course I also try to fight its influence on audio itself. But it is the former that matters. I had more faith before Disney Hall. But the fact that people liked it(if indeed they did--the good press could be just making the best of a "done deal" since it is hard to change the hall now) made me wonder if maybe the audio ideal of clarity at the cost of warmth was not propagating itself into the culture as a whole,
        > > as Forsyth presciently predicted in his chapter "The HiFi Concert Hall".
        > >
        > > It would be a shame if this happened.
        > >
        > > REG
        >
        > It will and it is happening I'm afraid.
        >
        > A somewhat gloomy Robert in Brussels
        >
      • Will_H
        To be fair and to give Sterophile an accurate view of what their real readership wants, perhaps only those who actually subscribe to Stereophile should write
        Message 3 of 13 , Nov 8, 2010
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          To be fair and to give Sterophile an accurate view of what their real
          readership wants, perhaps only those who actually subscribe to Stereophile
          should write these letters...

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Robert" <regonaudio@...>
          To: <regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Monday, November 08, 2010 1:10 PM
          Subject: [regsaudioforum] Re: Going one's own way


          > That makes two gloomy Roberts.
          >
          > I would suggest the following. It is a small
          > thing but it is the best one can do easily if
          > one is not in the reviewing business.
          >
          > Why doesn't everyone here--and I am sure that is most
          > of us--who object to the cold, thin sound of a dip between 100 and 200 Hz
          > and a rising treble write a letter to Stereophile every time
          > they publiush a review with measurements of a speaker
          > like that wherein they do not SAY it is like that.
          >
          > If they started getting lots of letter saying that the readers wanted to
          > have a truthful description of this and so on, I think they
          > might change their ways. Magazines are influenced by what their
          > subscribers and readers think and want!
          >
          > The address (for email ) is
          > [Letters to the Editor]
          >
          > stletters@...
          >
          >
          > Believe me, if everytime they did this(which is almost every issue)
          > they got a hundred letters--and there are more than 200 of us here--
          > objecting to the absence of truthful reviewing and the inaccurate
          > description, they would rethink what they were doing in a hurry.
          >
          > We have a saying in English(for our European members)
          > "The squeaky wheel gets the grease"
          > People who object get attention. Private gripes as here
          > are very gratifying emotionally perhaps--I vent a lot here,
          > as you have noticed I am sure as do some of the rest of you.
          > But it is the PUBLIC objections that can really cause change
          > and improvement.
          >
          > Stereophile, like any organization dependent on the public for survival,
          > is sensitive to the opinions of the public. But they have no way to know
          > what these opinions are except through communication from you!
          >
          > Please write--every time. It will help in the end.
          >
          > It can be short. But please do it.
          >
          > REG
          >
          > PS Since TAS does not
          > publish measurements, it is less easy to look an article
          > and say with certainty, this speakers is thin and bright and the
          > review should say so. With Stereophile, the evidence
          > is provided within the article. If you wanted
          > to , you could write to TAS and quote Sphile's measurements
          > when the TAS review seemed inconsistent with them, in particular
          > about the issues of the lower midrange hole and the exaggerated treble
          > ,two areas where measurements really mean something definite.
          > Of course the lower midrange hole is affected by placement, but the
          > excess treble is not. And even the lower mid hole ought to be mentioned as
          > a problem potentially--if the SPhile reviewers do not
          > get it right with placement, what chance is there that the
          > customer will get it right. At least the issue could be raised
          > legitimately.
          >
          > Pressure for the truth is the duty of the concerned citizen!
          >
          >
          > --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, robert jorgensen
          > <robert.jorgensen@...> wrote:
          >>
          >> On Sun, Nov 7, 2010 at 6:03 PM, Robert <regonaudio@...> wrote:
          >>
          >> >
          >> > The danger is that because the mass media are so influential, it could
          >> > happen that people of the most dubious qualities could in fact cause
          >> > major cultural shifts. In the past, only the colossal geniuses
          >> > could move standards. In the world of the internet, things have come to
          >> > seem less stable.
          >> >
          >>
          >> This happens on a large scale at the moment and not just in our area
          >> of interest. Truly worrying!!!
          >>
          >> >
          >> > One hopes that they are as in the German proverb I quote
          >> > so often about the great oak tree and the puppy dog peeing,
          >> > that this will have no influence on music as a whole. And of course I
          >> > also try to fight its influence on audio itself. But it is the former
          >> > that matters. I had more faith before Disney Hall. But the fact that
          >> > people liked it(if indeed they did--the good press could be just making
          >> > the best of a "done deal" since it is hard to change the hall now) made
          >> > me wonder if maybe the audio ideal of clarity at the cost of warmth was
          >> > not propagating itself into the culture as a whole,
          >> > as Forsyth presciently predicted in his chapter "The HiFi Concert
          >> > Hall".
          >> >
          >> > It would be a shame if this happened.
          >> >
          >> > REG
          >>
          >> It will and it is happening I'm afraid.
          >>
          >> A somewhat gloomy Robert in Brussels
          >>
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > -----
          > No virus found in this message.
          > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
          > Version: 10.0.1153 / Virus Database: 424/3245 - Release Date: 11/08/10
          >
        • Will_H
          Forgot to add those who buy off the newstand too... don t mean to be a killjoy, I think your suggestion is a good one. ... From: Will_H
          Message 4 of 13 , Nov 8, 2010
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            Forgot to add those who buy off the newstand too... don't mean to be a
            killjoy, I think your suggestion is a good one.


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Will_H" <will_hum@...>
            To: <regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Monday, November 08, 2010 9:53 PM
            Subject: Re: [regsaudioforum] Re: Going one's own way


            > To be fair and to give Sterophile an accurate view of what their real
            > readership wants, perhaps only those who actually subscribe to Stereophile
            > should write these letters...
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "Robert" <regonaudio@...>
            > To: <regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Monday, November 08, 2010 1:10 PM
            > Subject: [regsaudioforum] Re: Going one's own way
            >
            >
            >> That makes two gloomy Roberts.
            >>
            >> I would suggest the following. It is a small
            >> thing but it is the best one can do easily if
            >> one is not in the reviewing business.
            >>
            >> Why doesn't everyone here--and I am sure that is most
            >> of us--who object to the cold, thin sound of a dip between 100 and 200 Hz
            >> and a rising treble write a letter to Stereophile every time
            >> they publiush a review with measurements of a speaker
            >> like that wherein they do not SAY it is like that.
            >>
            >> If they started getting lots of letter saying that the readers wanted to
            >> have a truthful description of this and so on, I think they
            >> might change their ways. Magazines are influenced by what their
            >> subscribers and readers think and want!
            >>
            >> The address (for email ) is
            >> [Letters to the Editor]
            >>
            >> stletters@...
            >>
            >>
            >> Believe me, if everytime they did this(which is almost every issue)
            >> they got a hundred letters--and there are more than 200 of us here--
            >> objecting to the absence of truthful reviewing and the inaccurate
            >> description, they would rethink what they were doing in a hurry.
            >>
            >> We have a saying in English(for our European members)
            >> "The squeaky wheel gets the grease"
            >> People who object get attention. Private gripes as here
            >> are very gratifying emotionally perhaps--I vent a lot here,
            >> as you have noticed I am sure as do some of the rest of you.
            >> But it is the PUBLIC objections that can really cause change
            >> and improvement.
            >>
            >> Stereophile, like any organization dependent on the public for survival,
            >> is sensitive to the opinions of the public. But they have no way to know
            >> what these opinions are except through communication from you!
            >>
            >> Please write--every time. It will help in the end.
            >>
            >> It can be short. But please do it.
            >>
            >> REG
            >>
            >> PS Since TAS does not
            >> publish measurements, it is less easy to look an article
            >> and say with certainty, this speakers is thin and bright and the
            >> review should say so. With Stereophile, the evidence
            >> is provided within the article. If you wanted
            >> to , you could write to TAS and quote Sphile's measurements
            >> when the TAS review seemed inconsistent with them, in particular
            >> about the issues of the lower midrange hole and the exaggerated treble
            >> ,two areas where measurements really mean something definite.
            >> Of course the lower midrange hole is affected by placement, but the
            >> excess treble is not. And even the lower mid hole ought to be mentioned
            >> as
            >> a problem potentially--if the SPhile reviewers do not
            >> get it right with placement, what chance is there that the
            >> customer will get it right. At least the issue could be raised
            >> legitimately.
            >>
            >> Pressure for the truth is the duty of the concerned citizen!
            >>
            >>
            >> --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, robert jorgensen
            >> <robert.jorgensen@...> wrote:
            >>>
            >>> On Sun, Nov 7, 2010 at 6:03 PM, Robert <regonaudio@...> wrote:
            >>>
            >>> >
            >>> > The danger is that because the mass media are so influential, it could
            >>> > happen that people of the most dubious qualities could in fact cause
            >>> > major cultural shifts. In the past, only the colossal geniuses
            >>> > could move standards. In the world of the internet, things have come
            >>> > to
            >>> > seem less stable.
            >>> >
            >>>
            >>> This happens on a large scale at the moment and not just in our area
            >>> of interest. Truly worrying!!!
            >>>
            >>> >
            >>> > One hopes that they are as in the German proverb I quote
            >>> > so often about the great oak tree and the puppy dog peeing,
            >>> > that this will have no influence on music as a whole. And of course I
            >>> > also try to fight its influence on audio itself. But it is the former
            >>> > that matters. I had more faith before Disney Hall. But the fact that
            >>> > people liked it(if indeed they did--the good press could be just
            >>> > making
            >>> > the best of a "done deal" since it is hard to change the hall now)
            >>> > made
            >>> > me wonder if maybe the audio ideal of clarity at the cost of warmth
            >>> > was
            >>> > not propagating itself into the culture as a whole,
            >>> > as Forsyth presciently predicted in his chapter "The HiFi Concert
            >>> > Hall".
            >>> >
            >>> > It would be a shame if this happened.
            >>> >
            >>> > REG
            >>>
            >>> It will and it is happening I'm afraid.
            >>>
            >>> A somewhat gloomy Robert in Brussels
            >>>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >> ------------------------------------
            >>
            >> Yahoo! Groups Links
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >> -----
            >> No virus found in this message.
            >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
            >> Version: 10.0.1153 / Virus Database: 424/3245 - Release Date: 11/08/10
            >>
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > -----
            > No virus found in this message.
            > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
            > Version: 10.0.1153 / Virus Database: 424/3245 - Release Date: 11/08/10
            >
          • Will_H
            This may be too ghetto for everyone here, but what the heck.... As I mentioned in an earlier post, I picked up a pair of $200 Pioneer floorstanders (FS-51) a
            Message 5 of 13 , Nov 8, 2010
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              This may be too "ghetto" for everyone here, but what the heck....

              As I mentioned in an earlier post, I picked up a pair of $200 Pioneer
              floorstanders (FS-51) a few weeks ago on a whim (actually a bit more than
              that since I actually drove across the border to pick them up from Best
              Buy). Mainly on the reputation of Andrew Jones of TAD fame. Was curious if
              these could give Paul Barton and the Alphas a run for their money. I
              figured if I didn't like them, I could still use them in the family room
              with the TV... how bad could they be, right?!

              They are OK for $200, but the ~50% more expensive PSB Alpha's sound cleaner
              and better balanced to my ears.

              My main complaint with the Pioneers is that they sound terribly recessed in
              the midrange and have a very subdued treble... here's one speaker where you
              actually have to turn up the treble. And they don't really come alive until
              you crank up the volume... at the moderate volumes I listen at, they sound
              lifeless.

              Sometimes paying more really does get you more.

              On the up side, the rest of the family is really enjoying them in the family
              room... they love the extra bass compared to the mini-monitor Wharfedale
              Diamond speakers I had there before. It's pretty good with the loud
              compressed pop music my daughters enjoy.
            • Robert
              Are these one of the Jones designs with the waveguide loaded tweeter concentric with the mid driver? REG
              Message 6 of 13 , Nov 8, 2010
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                Are these one of the Jones designs with the
                waveguide loaded tweeter concentric with the mid driver?

                REG

                --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Will_H" <will_hum@...> wrote:
                >
                > This may be too "ghetto" for everyone here, but what the heck....
                >
                > As I mentioned in an earlier post, I picked up a pair of $200 Pioneer
                > floorstanders (FS-51) a few weeks ago on a whim (actually a bit more than
                > that since I actually drove across the border to pick them up from Best
                > Buy). Mainly on the reputation of Andrew Jones of TAD fame. Was curious if
                > these could give Paul Barton and the Alphas a run for their money. I
                > figured if I didn't like them, I could still use them in the family room
                > with the TV... how bad could they be, right?!
                >
                > They are OK for $200, but the ~50% more expensive PSB Alpha's sound cleaner
                > and better balanced to my ears.
                >
                > My main complaint with the Pioneers is that they sound terribly recessed in
                > the midrange and have a very subdued treble... here's one speaker where you
                > actually have to turn up the treble. And they don't really come alive until
                > you crank up the volume... at the moderate volumes I listen at, they sound
                > lifeless.
                >
                > Sometimes paying more really does get you more.
                >
                > On the up side, the rest of the family is really enjoying them in the family
                > room... they love the extra bass compared to the mini-monitor Wharfedale
                > Diamond speakers I had there before. It's pretty good with the loud
                > compressed pop music my daughters enjoy.
                >
              • Robert
                Well, given the number of references I and others have made here to the Sphile website, I suppose that we are all readers in some sense. Incidentally, you
                Message 7 of 13 , Nov 8, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  Well, given the number of references I and others have
                  made here to the Sphile website, I suppose that
                  we are all readers in some sense.

                  Incidentally, you might was well subscribe--the thing
                  is almosst free. (They are apparently supported
                  by ad revenue to the point where the cost of
                  the magazine to the consumer can be very small)

                  REG

                  --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Will_H" <will_hum@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Forgot to add those who buy off the newstand too... don't mean to be a
                  > killjoy, I think your suggestion is a good one.
                  >
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: "Will_H" <will_hum@...>
                  > To: <regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Sent: Monday, November 08, 2010 9:53 PM
                  > Subject: Re: [regsaudioforum] Re: Going one's own way
                  >
                  >
                  > > To be fair and to give Sterophile an accurate view of what their real
                  > > readership wants, perhaps only those who actually subscribe to Stereophile
                  > > should write these letters...
                  > >
                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > From: "Robert" <regonaudio@...>
                  > > To: <regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com>
                  > > Sent: Monday, November 08, 2010 1:10 PM
                  > > Subject: [regsaudioforum] Re: Going one's own way
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >> That makes two gloomy Roberts.
                  > >>
                  > >> I would suggest the following. It is a small
                  > >> thing but it is the best one can do easily if
                  > >> one is not in the reviewing business.
                  > >>
                  > >> Why doesn't everyone here--and I am sure that is most
                  > >> of us--who object to the cold, thin sound of a dip between 100 and 200 Hz
                  > >> and a rising treble write a letter to Stereophile every time
                  > >> they publiush a review with measurements of a speaker
                  > >> like that wherein they do not SAY it is like that.
                  > >>
                  > >> If they started getting lots of letter saying that the readers wanted to
                  > >> have a truthful description of this and so on, I think they
                  > >> might change their ways. Magazines are influenced by what their
                  > >> subscribers and readers think and want!
                  > >>
                  > >> The address (for email ) is
                  > >> [Letters to the Editor]
                  > >>
                  > >> stletters@...
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >> Believe me, if everytime they did this(which is almost every issue)
                  > >> they got a hundred letters--and there are more than 200 of us here--
                  > >> objecting to the absence of truthful reviewing and the inaccurate
                  > >> description, they would rethink what they were doing in a hurry.
                  > >>
                  > >> We have a saying in English(for our European members)
                  > >> "The squeaky wheel gets the grease"
                  > >> People who object get attention. Private gripes as here
                  > >> are very gratifying emotionally perhaps--I vent a lot here,
                  > >> as you have noticed I am sure as do some of the rest of you.
                  > >> But it is the PUBLIC objections that can really cause change
                  > >> and improvement.
                  > >>
                  > >> Stereophile, like any organization dependent on the public for survival,
                  > >> is sensitive to the opinions of the public. But they have no way to know
                  > >> what these opinions are except through communication from you!
                  > >>
                  > >> Please write--every time. It will help in the end.
                  > >>
                  > >> It can be short. But please do it.
                  > >>
                  > >> REG
                  > >>
                  > >> PS Since TAS does not
                  > >> publish measurements, it is less easy to look an article
                  > >> and say with certainty, this speakers is thin and bright and the
                  > >> review should say so. With Stereophile, the evidence
                  > >> is provided within the article. If you wanted
                  > >> to , you could write to TAS and quote Sphile's measurements
                  > >> when the TAS review seemed inconsistent with them, in particular
                  > >> about the issues of the lower midrange hole and the exaggerated treble
                  > >> ,two areas where measurements really mean something definite.
                  > >> Of course the lower midrange hole is affected by placement, but the
                  > >> excess treble is not. And even the lower mid hole ought to be mentioned
                  > >> as
                  > >> a problem potentially--if the SPhile reviewers do not
                  > >> get it right with placement, what chance is there that the
                  > >> customer will get it right. At least the issue could be raised
                  > >> legitimately.
                  > >>
                  > >> Pressure for the truth is the duty of the concerned citizen!
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >> --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, robert jorgensen
                  > >> <robert.jorgensen@> wrote:
                  > >>>
                  > >>> On Sun, Nov 7, 2010 at 6:03 PM, Robert <regonaudio@> wrote:
                  > >>>
                  > >>> >
                  > >>> > The danger is that because the mass media are so influential, it could
                  > >>> > happen that people of the most dubious qualities could in fact cause
                  > >>> > major cultural shifts. In the past, only the colossal geniuses
                  > >>> > could move standards. In the world of the internet, things have come
                  > >>> > to
                  > >>> > seem less stable.
                  > >>> >
                  > >>>
                  > >>> This happens on a large scale at the moment and not just in our area
                  > >>> of interest. Truly worrying!!!
                  > >>>
                  > >>> >
                  > >>> > One hopes that they are as in the German proverb I quote
                  > >>> > so often about the great oak tree and the puppy dog peeing,
                  > >>> > that this will have no influence on music as a whole. And of course I
                  > >>> > also try to fight its influence on audio itself. But it is the former
                  > >>> > that matters. I had more faith before Disney Hall. But the fact that
                  > >>> > people liked it(if indeed they did--the good press could be just
                  > >>> > making
                  > >>> > the best of a "done deal" since it is hard to change the hall now)
                  > >>> > made
                  > >>> > me wonder if maybe the audio ideal of clarity at the cost of warmth
                  > >>> > was
                  > >>> > not propagating itself into the culture as a whole,
                  > >>> > as Forsyth presciently predicted in his chapter "The HiFi Concert
                  > >>> > Hall".
                  > >>> >
                  > >>> > It would be a shame if this happened.
                  > >>> >
                  > >>> > REG
                  > >>>
                  > >>> It will and it is happening I'm afraid.
                  > >>>
                  > >>> A somewhat gloomy Robert in Brussels
                  > >>>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >> ------------------------------------
                  > >>
                  > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >> -----
                  > >> No virus found in this message.
                  > >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                  > >> Version: 10.0.1153 / Virus Database: 424/3245 - Release Date: 11/08/10
                  > >>
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ------------------------------------
                  > >
                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > -----
                  > > No virus found in this message.
                  > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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                • will_hum
                  No, it is a traditional floorstander with a tweeter on top and 3 midrange/woofers below. Here s a link: http://tinyurl.com/2e2m8hk Andrew Jones has posted on
                  Message 8 of 13 , Nov 9, 2010
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                    No, it is a traditional floorstander with a tweeter on top and 3 midrange/woofers below.

                    Here's a link: http://tinyurl.com/2e2m8hk

                    Andrew Jones has posted on the AVS Forum that this budget speaker line with his name on it is more than just marketing... he actually had full control over the design (within the budget constraints)


                    --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <regonaudio@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Are these one of the Jones designs with the
                    > waveguide loaded tweeter concentric with the mid driver?
                    >
                    > REG
                    >
                    > --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Will_H" <will_hum@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > This may be too "ghetto" for everyone here, but what the heck....
                    > >
                    > > As I mentioned in an earlier post, I picked up a pair of $200 Pioneer
                    > > floorstanders (FS-51) a few weeks ago on a whim (actually a bit more than
                    > > that since I actually drove across the border to pick them up from Best
                    > > Buy). Mainly on the reputation of Andrew Jones of TAD fame. Was curious if
                    > > these could give Paul Barton and the Alphas a run for their money. I
                    > > figured if I didn't like them, I could still use them in the family room
                    > > with the TV... how bad could they be, right?!
                    > >
                    > > They are OK for $200, but the ~50% more expensive PSB Alpha's sound cleaner
                    > > and better balanced to my ears.
                    > >
                    > > My main complaint with the Pioneers is that they sound terribly recessed in
                    > > the midrange and have a very subdued treble... here's one speaker where you
                    > > actually have to turn up the treble. And they don't really come alive until
                    > > you crank up the volume... at the moderate volumes I listen at, they sound
                    > > lifeless.
                    > >
                    > > Sometimes paying more really does get you more.
                    > >
                    > > On the up side, the rest of the family is really enjoying them in the family
                    > > room... they love the extra bass compared to the mini-monitor Wharfedale
                    > > Diamond speakers I had there before. It's pretty good with the loud
                    > > compressed pop music my daughters enjoy.
                    > >
                    >
                  • Robert
                    Are these really $200 per pair? This seems almost unbelievable. I must say that much as I admire the PSB Alpha B1s, the main thing wrong with them(as you can
                    Message 9 of 13 , Nov 9, 2010
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                      Are these really $200 per pair?

                      This seems almost unbelievable.

                      I must say that much as I admire the PSB Alpha B1s, the main thing wrong with them(as you can see on their Soundstage measurements)
                      is that they have a couple of 2 dB peaks at 1.5 k and 2.25 k
                      that make them sound over lively.
                      Sounding more subdued than this is likely correct.
                      Of course there is a problem with running a largish woofer up
                      to meet a small tweeter.

                      But still, I wonder....

                      Could you run some measurements on these things?
                      I would be really interested to see something.

                      The PSB Alpha B1s really need a subwoofer to sound
                      reasonable--no real bass. And this brings the system
                      price up to beyond the truly low price level. Also
                      they really need EQ to sound as smooth as one might hope for.
                      Not much EQ but some!

                      So these Pioneers might be a contender for what to tell
                      people to buy who are short on money(students are
                      always asking me what to buy for example)

                      Measurements of any sort would be much appreciated.

                      REG



                      --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "will_hum" <will_hum@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > No, it is a traditional floorstander with a tweeter on top and 3 midrange/woofers below.
                      >
                      > Here's a link: http://tinyurl.com/2e2m8hk
                      >
                      > Andrew Jones has posted on the AVS Forum that this budget speaker line with his name on it is more than just marketing... he actually had full control over the design (within the budget constraints)
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <regonaudio@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Are these one of the Jones designs with the
                      > > waveguide loaded tweeter concentric with the mid driver?
                      > >
                      > > REG
                      > >
                      > > --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Will_H" <will_hum@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > This may be too "ghetto" for everyone here, but what the heck....
                      > > >
                      > > > As I mentioned in an earlier post, I picked up a pair of $200 Pioneer
                      > > > floorstanders (FS-51) a few weeks ago on a whim (actually a bit more than
                      > > > that since I actually drove across the border to pick them up from Best
                      > > > Buy). Mainly on the reputation of Andrew Jones of TAD fame. Was curious if
                      > > > these could give Paul Barton and the Alphas a run for their money. I
                      > > > figured if I didn't like them, I could still use them in the family room
                      > > > with the TV... how bad could they be, right?!
                      > > >
                      > > > They are OK for $200, but the ~50% more expensive PSB Alpha's sound cleaner
                      > > > and better balanced to my ears.
                      > > >
                      > > > My main complaint with the Pioneers is that they sound terribly recessed in
                      > > > the midrange and have a very subdued treble... here's one speaker where you
                      > > > actually have to turn up the treble. And they don't really come alive until
                      > > > you crank up the volume... at the moderate volumes I listen at, they sound
                      > > > lifeless.
                      > > >
                      > > > Sometimes paying more really does get you more.
                      > > >
                      > > > On the up side, the rest of the family is really enjoying them in the family
                      > > > room... they love the extra bass compared to the mini-monitor Wharfedale
                      > > > Diamond speakers I had there before. It's pretty good with the loud
                      > > > compressed pop music my daughters enjoy.
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • Will_H
                      Yep, $200. And since they are sold at Best Buy, their Rewards Points and occassional usual discount coupons are applicable. When I was in Plattsburgh to pick
                      Message 10 of 13 , Nov 10, 2010
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                        Yep, $200. And since they are sold at Best Buy, their Rewards Points and
                        occassional usual discount coupons are applicable.

                        When I was in Plattsburgh to pick them up, I should have stopped at Radio
                        Shack to pick up an SPL meter too... I don't have the means to measure them
                        now, but when I eventually get something, I'll do that for you.

                        In the AVS thread, the marketing man from Pioneer mentioned he was going to
                        ask AJ to put up some measurements, but I guess he hasn't had time yet.

                        One warning... the pictures are deceiving... these speakers are short (only
                        32") so best used on some thick gardening stones.


                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Robert" <regonaudio@...>
                        To: <regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2010 9:57 PM
                        Subject: [regsaudioforum] Re: $200 Pioneer speakers by Andrew Jones


                        >
                        > Are these really $200 per pair?
                        >
                        > This seems almost unbelievable.
                        >
                        > I must say that much as I admire the PSB Alpha B1s, the main thing wrong
                        > with them(as you can see on their Soundstage measurements)
                        > is that they have a couple of 2 dB peaks at 1.5 k and 2.25 k
                        > that make them sound over lively.
                        > Sounding more subdued than this is likely correct.
                        > Of course there is a problem with running a largish woofer up
                        > to meet a small tweeter.
                        >
                        > But still, I wonder....
                        >
                        > Could you run some measurements on these things?
                        > I would be really interested to see something.
                        >
                        > The PSB Alpha B1s really need a subwoofer to sound
                        > reasonable--no real bass. And this brings the system
                        > price up to beyond the truly low price level. Also
                        > they really need EQ to sound as smooth as one might hope for.
                        > Not much EQ but some!
                        >
                        > So these Pioneers might be a contender for what to tell
                        > people to buy who are short on money(students are
                        > always asking me what to buy for example)
                        >
                        > Measurements of any sort would be much appreciated.
                        >
                        > REG
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "will_hum" <will_hum@...> wrote:
                        >>
                        >> No, it is a traditional floorstander with a tweeter on top and 3
                        >> midrange/woofers below.
                        >>
                        >> Here's a link: http://tinyurl.com/2e2m8hk
                        >>
                        >> Andrew Jones has posted on the AVS Forum that this budget speaker line
                        >> with his name on it is more than just marketing... he actually had full
                        >> control over the design (within the budget constraints)
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <regonaudio@> wrote:
                        >> >
                        >> > Are these one of the Jones designs with the
                        >> > waveguide loaded tweeter concentric with the mid driver?
                        >> >
                        >> > REG
                        >> >
                        >> > --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Will_H" <will_hum@> wrote:
                        >> > >
                        >> > > This may be too "ghetto" for everyone here, but what the heck....
                        >> > >
                        >> > > As I mentioned in an earlier post, I picked up a pair of $200 Pioneer
                        >> > > floorstanders (FS-51) a few weeks ago on a whim (actually a bit more
                        >> > > than
                        >> > > that since I actually drove across the border to pick them up from
                        >> > > Best
                        >> > > Buy). Mainly on the reputation of Andrew Jones of TAD fame. Was
                        >> > > curious if
                        >> > > these could give Paul Barton and the Alphas a run for their money. I
                        >> > > figured if I didn't like them, I could still use them in the family
                        >> > > room
                        >> > > with the TV... how bad could they be, right?!
                        >> > >
                        >> > > They are OK for $200, but the ~50% more expensive PSB Alpha's sound
                        >> > > cleaner
                        >> > > and better balanced to my ears.
                        >> > >
                        >> > > My main complaint with the Pioneers is that they sound terribly
                        >> > > recessed in
                        >> > > the midrange and have a very subdued treble... here's one speaker
                        >> > > where you
                        >> > > actually have to turn up the treble. And they don't really come
                        >> > > alive until
                        >> > > you crank up the volume... at the moderate volumes I listen at, they
                        >> > > sound
                        >> > > lifeless.
                        >> > >
                        >> > > Sometimes paying more really does get you more.
                        >> > >
                        >> > > On the up side, the rest of the family is really enjoying them in the
                        >> > > family
                        >> > > room... they love the extra bass compared to the mini-monitor
                        >> > > Wharfedale
                        >> > > Diamond speakers I had there before. It's pretty good with the loud
                        >> > > compressed pop music my daughters enjoy.
                        >> > >
                        >> >
                        >>
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
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                        > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                        > Version: 10.0.1153 / Virus Database: 424/3247 - Release Date: 11/09/10
                        >
                      • Russell Dawkins
                        here s more info: http://hd.engadget.com/2010/09/09/pioneer-shares-affordable-line-of-speakers-snobs-sob/ There does seem to be some confusion over the price.
                        Message 11 of 13 , Nov 10, 2010
                        • 0 Attachment
                          here's more info:
                          http://hd.engadget.com/2010/09/09/pioneer-shares-affordable-line-of-speakers-snobs-sob/

                          There does seem to be some confusion over the price. $200 seems plausible, but I did read $89.99 each here, FWIW:
                          http://www.elitezoom.com/pioneer-sp-series-home-theater-and-music-speakers.html
                        • Will_H
                          The floorstanding FS51 are $199.99 per pair The bookshelf BS41 (what an unfortunate acronym!) are also $199.99 per pair The smaller bookshelf BS21 is $89.99
                          Message 12 of 13 , Nov 10, 2010
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                            The floorstanding FS51 are $199.99 per pair
                            The bookshelf BS41 (what an unfortunate acronym!) are also $199.99 per pair
                            The smaller bookshelf BS21 is $89.99 per pair

                            When I asked why the FS51 and BS41 were the same price, they (Andrew Jones
                            and the Pioneer marketing guy - forget his name) hinted that it was because
                            of Best Buy's "buying/selling power" that allowed them to sell the FS51 at
                            $199.99. Best Buy decided not to carry the BS41 at the last minute... so it
                            is sold direct from Pioneer for $199.99. J&R also sells the BS41... they
                            had it on sale a couple weeks ago for $89.99 but they wanted $60 to ship it
                            to Canada.

                            Initially I suspected that the BS41 had better quality parts to justify it
                            costing the same as the floorstander, but was assured that they all have the
                            same quality parts. I actually started looking into these speakers because
                            Kalman Rubinson from Stereophile commented favorably on the BS41's he heard
                            at CEDIA.

                            The non-removable protective metal grills on all the drivers makes them very
                            family-room friendly... no worries about young ones poking in the tweeter.

                            For those Canucks who are interested but don't want to drive to the USA,
                            Best Buy Canada is supposed to start selling these in early 2011.




                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "Russell Dawkins" <rdawkins@...>
                            To: <regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 2:15 PM
                            Subject: [regsaudioforum] Re: $200 Pioneer speakers by Andrew Jones


                            > here's more info:
                            > http://hd.engadget.com/2010/09/09/pioneer-shares-affordable-line-of-speakers-snobs-sob/
                            >
                            > There does seem to be some confusion over the price. $200 seems plausible,
                            > but I did read $89.99 each here, FWIW:
                            > http://www.elitezoom.com/pioneer-sp-series-home-theater-and-music-speakers.html
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > -----
                            > No virus found in this message.
                            > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                            > Version: 10.0.1153 / Virus Database: 424/3248 - Release Date: 11/10/10
                            >
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