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Re: Cerwin Vega

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  • russelldawkins
    ... I wonder if the graph on the measurements page accessed from this page for the K+H 0410 midfield monitor speaker is an example of this measurement
    Message 1 of 13 , Feb 1, 2010
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      --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "regtas43" <regonaudio@...> wrote:
      >
      > From Linkwitz
      > "Researchers at Cerwin Vega have done extensive theoretical work [1]. They concluded amongst other things: "... With an increase in the number of tones, the multitone provides increasingly detailed information about the nonlinear behavior of a DUT. An ultimate increase in the number of tones leads to a noise-like signal that may hypothetically provide complete information about a nonlinearity-impaired DUT, but demands an enormous amount of calculation, if a high-order nonlinearity is to be assessed."
      >
      > [1] Gene Czerwinski, Alexander Voishvillo, Sergei Alexandrov, Alexander Terekhov, "Multitone testing of sound system components - Some results and conclusions, Part 1: History and theory", JAES, Vol. 49, No. 11, 2001 November, pp. 1011-1048.
      > "Part 2: Modeling and Application", JAES, Vol. 49, No. 12, 2001 December, pp. 1181-1192.
      >
      > I think these people know a LOT. And it shows in their speakers.
      >
      > REG
      >
      I wonder if the graph on the "measurements" page accessed from this page for the K+H 0410 midfield monitor speaker is an example of this measurement technique in use.

      http://tinyurl.com/dxx3x8

      You have to click on "measurements" on the right side of the page, and the graph is third down on the right side. It seems to show around a 45 - 65 dB signal to noise ratio when playing tones at 95 dB, if I am interpreting it properly.

      By the way, Sennheiser announced last month that the K+H studio line of speakers would be re-branded to become "Neumann" as of the end of January, I think (yesterday). I imagine that spells the end for the deeply discounted prices on these wonderful speakers, so snap them up while you still can! (as Klein + Hummel)
    • Bomwell, Alan
      I notice that the recent San Francisco Symphony recording of Mahler s 8th won three Grammy awards last night; best engineered album, best classical album and
      Message 2 of 13 , Feb 1, 2010
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        I notice that the recent San Francisco Symphony recording of Mahler’s 8th won three Grammy awards last night; best engineered album, best classical album and best choral performance.  I have this recording and agree that it is remarkable!  In fact the entire Mahler cycle of recordings, of which this completes the series, is exceptionally well recorded.  I’m continually impressed with the remarkable orchestral balance achieved by Michael Tilson Thomas.   The series is recorded in hybrid SACD with exceptionally well recorded surround sound.   (I use M40.1s for two front channels and Helsinki 1.5s for the surrounds).   I hope the SFS will continue making more recordings!  

        Best,

         

        Al

         

      • Roland Eveleth
        ...so snap them up while you still can! Where?  Thanks. ... From: russelldawkins Subject: [regsaudioforum] Re: Cerwin Vega To:
        Message 3 of 13 , Feb 1, 2010
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          "...so snap them up while you still can!" Where?  Thanks.

          --- On Mon, 2/1/10, russelldawkins <rdawkins@...> wrote:

          From: russelldawkins <rdawkins@...>
          Subject: [regsaudioforum] Re: Cerwin Vega
          To: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 6:30 AM

           


          --- In regsaudioforum@ yahoogroups. com, "regtas43" <regonaudio@ ...> wrote:
          >
          > From Linkwitz
          > "Researchers at Cerwin Vega have done extensive theoretical work [1]. They concluded amongst other things: "... With an increase in the number of tones, the multitone provides increasingly detailed information about the nonlinear behavior of a DUT. An ultimate increase in the number of tones leads to a noise-like signal that may hypothetically provide complete information about a nonlinearity- impaired DUT, but demands an enormous amount of calculation, if a high-order nonlinearity is to be assessed."
          >
          > [1] Gene Czerwinski, Alexander Voishvillo, Sergei Alexandrov, Alexander Terekhov, "Multitone testing of sound system components - Some results and conclusions, Part 1: History and theory", JAES, Vol. 49, No. 11, 2001 November, pp. 1011-1048.
          > "Part 2: Modeling and Application" , JAES, Vol. 49, No. 12, 2001 December, pp. 1181-1192.
          >
          > I think these people know a LOT. And it shows in their speakers.
          >
          > REG
          >
          I wonder if the graph on the "measurements" page accessed from this page for the K+H 0410 midfield monitor speaker is an example of this measurement technique in use.

          http://tinyurl. com/dxx3x8

          You have to click on "measurements" on the right side of the page, and the graph is third down on the right side. It seems to show around a 45 - 65 dB signal to noise ratio when playing tones at 95 dB, if I am interpreting it properly.

          By the way, Sennheiser announced last month that the K+H studio line of speakers would be re-branded to become "Neumann" as of the end of January, I think (yesterday). I imagine that spells the end for the deeply discounted prices on these wonderful speakers, so snap them up while you still can! (as Klein + Hummel)


        • laurie483000
          I hadn t bothered to look into the CLS215s before now, but I thought I ought to investigate and incredably, a London store is selling them at £967 per pair -
          Message 4 of 13 , Feb 1, 2010
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            I hadn't bothered to look into the CLS215s before now, but I thought I ought to investigate and incredably, a London store is selling them at £967 per pair - so they're unbelievably cheap in the UK too. The web page says that if I order them now within 40mins, they'll arrive at the front door tomorrow - 48" x 16.5" isn't horrendously large and probably less imposing than M40s on stands. Maybe it's even time for a change, but it's the M30s, rather than the LS3/5as that would have to go. I should at least go and have a listen.

            I've a friend in a detached house, on the lookout for a speaker upgrade, so I'll pass on the information, but I suspect there's a WAF issue there. I see that there's a more upmarket version that appears to be of the same configeration - the XLS215 @ £600 more - I wonder if they're worth the extra.

            Cerwin Vegas were introduced to the UK I think 30+ years ago - the initial domestic models were mainly transmission line designs with impressive sounding bass of course, but I don't remember them being particularly cheap in those days.


            Laurie


            --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "regtas43" <regonaudio@...> wrote:
            >
            > From Linkwitz
            > "Researchers at Cerwin Vega have done extensive theoretical work [1]. They concluded amongst other things: "... With an increase in the number of tones, the multitone provides increasingly detailed information about the nonlinear behavior of a DUT. An ultimate increase in the number of tones leads to a noise-like signal that may hypothetically provide complete information about a nonlinearity-impaired DUT, but demands an enormous amount of calculation, if a high-order nonlinearity is to be assessed."
            >
            > [1] Gene Czerwinski, Alexander Voishvillo, Sergei Alexandrov, Alexander Terekhov, "Multitone testing of sound system components - Some results and conclusions, Part 1: History and theory", JAES, Vol. 49, No. 11, 2001 November, pp. 1011-1048.
            > "Part 2: Modeling and Application", JAES, Vol. 49, No. 12, 2001 December, pp. 1181-1192.
            >
            > I think these people know a LOT. And it shows in their speakers.
            >
            > REG
            >
          • russelldawkins
            ... Any musician s or recordist s supply that carries Sennheiser (and that s most of them) should have access to them. The biggest of these may have them in
            Message 5 of 13 , Feb 1, 2010
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              --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, Roland Eveleth <bigrolc@...> wrote:
              >
              > "...so snap them up while you still can!" Where?  Thanks.

              Any musician's or recordist's supply that carries Sennheiser (and that's most of them) should have access to them. The biggest of these may have them in stock, but they are not common, and may well have to be ordered. I presume you are writing from the United States, but if you were writing from Canada I could be more specific.

              They are not well known in North America, except in well-informed studio facilities, and the company itself was low-key and not into self promotion, then they were bought by Sennheiser a couple or three years ago. I imagine as Neumanns they will become very well known and even sought after as a highly accurate studio monitor, for mixing and mastering.
              The K+H 0410s have an msrp of $13,995 in the USA, yet I have a studio-owner friend who just bought a pair about 5 months ago for $8500 Canadian.

              If the thought of a big band or an orchestra played back at realistic levels with no noticeable distortion, sense of strain or tonal abberations appeals to you, then these are the real thing. A bonus is you could mount them in the wall if you wished - that can be accommodated by adjusting bass characteristics by switches on the rear.

              It would be interesting to hear how close the Cerwin Vega comes to this level of performance. From what REG says it must be close, and that would make it a God-send for those needing real dynamic capability with a measure of refinement, and on a budget.

              Pro sound does offer some intriguing possibilities.

              Some other examples are the Emerald Physics as well as the Bastanis lines.
              >
              > --- On Mon, 2/1/10, russelldawkins <rdawkins@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > From: russelldawkins <rdawkins@...>
              > Subject: [regsaudioforum] Re: Cerwin Vega
              > To: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
              > Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 6:30 AM
              >
              >
              >  
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In regsaudioforum@ yahoogroups. com, "regtas43" <regonaudio@ ...> wrote:
              > >
              > > From Linkwitz
              > > "Researchers at Cerwin Vega have done extensive theoretical work [1]. They concluded amongst other things: "... With an increase in the number of tones, the multitone provides increasingly detailed information about the nonlinear behavior of a DUT. An ultimate increase in the number of tones leads to a noise-like signal that may hypothetically provide complete information about a nonlinearity- impaired DUT, but demands an enormous amount of calculation, if a high-order nonlinearity is to be assessed."
              > >
              > > [1] Gene Czerwinski, Alexander Voishvillo, Sergei Alexandrov, Alexander Terekhov, "Multitone testing of sound system components - Some results and conclusions, Part 1: History and theory", JAES, Vol. 49, No. 11, 2001 November, pp. 1011-1048.
              > > "Part 2: Modeling and Application" , JAES, Vol. 49, No. 12, 2001 December, pp. 1181-1192.
              > >
              > > I think these people know a LOT. And it shows in their speakers.
              > >
              > > REG
              > >
              > I wonder if the graph on the "measurements" page accessed from this page for the K+H 0410 midfield monitor speaker is an example of this measurement technique in use.
              >
              > http://tinyurl. com/dxx3x8
              >
              > You have to click on "measurements" on the right side of the page, and the graph is third down on the right side. It seems to show around a 45 - 65 dB signal to noise ratio when playing tones at 95 dB, if I am interpreting it properly.
              >
              > By the way, Sennheiser announced last month that the K+H studio line of speakers would be re-branded to become "Neumann" as of the end of January, I think (yesterday). I imagine that spells the end for the deeply discounted prices on these wonderful speakers, so snap them up while you still can! (as Klein + Hummel)
              >
            • laurie483000
              A little late in the day to be continuing this thread but.... - my copy of the SFS MTT Mahler 8th SACD arrived a few days ago and indeed it is very good.
              Message 6 of 13 , Feb 25, 2010
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                A little late in the day to be continuing this thread but.... - my copy of the SFS MTT Mahler 8th SACD arrived a few days ago and indeed it is very good.

                However, a week or so before on a trip to London, I had picked up the recent Gergiev LSO own label mid priced SACD of the same work - some very Russian sounding soloist names - and it makes for an interesting contrast. It is recorded live at St Paul's cathedral - maybe not renowned for its acoustics, but nevertheless, this disc is a must for those who like reverberation and bass. The end of the first movement takes half a minute to die away, yet the start of the second is wonderfully atmospheric and the double basses here sound nicely full. Soloists and choir are distant and are rather too soft in the quiet bits, but it's unwise to let this determine the volume control as the loud bits do get very loud. However, there's not a trace of hardness to my ears and the sound ends up being surprisingly unconfused too. But it's the way the organ / bass drum combination is captured that really makes this disc. I need to listen to the SFS issue a bit more - it's early days yet, but for the moment it's the Gergiev disc that always being selected, in spite of its flaws.

                I gave up on the Decca / Solti 8th a while ago, in spite of its enthusiastic reviews all those years ago - the sound quality is just to 'gritty' for me these days. Until now I've tended to play the EMI Tennstedt disc, though this is a somewhat harsh at times, but the organ is magnificent right at the end.

                The LSO disc notes recommend the Gergiev Mahler 2nd SACD issue, as it has had some good reviews, so I bought this too. Recorded at what seems to be a rather dead sounding Barbican Hall, but it's a worthy enough recording in many ways and I'm glad to have it. The bass and climaxes are again impressive, but somehow it's not quite as enjoyable as the same orchestra's 8th at St Pauls.

                Is there something of a trend here? - Orchestra own labels and the smaller companies generally, are still pushing out SACDs. I also bought the Vanska BIS Beethoven Symphony set for a very reasonable price. The CD versions in the same shop were at full cost surprisingly, but maybe the SACD set was on special offer. Worth having - except maybe for the 8th which seems a bit strange - but I'm anyway too familiar with this work nowadays.



                Laurie


                --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Bomwell, Alan" <abomwell@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > I notice that the recent San Francisco Symphony recording of Mahler's 8th won three Grammy awards last night; best engineered album, best classical album and best choral performance. I have this recording and agree that it is remarkable! In fact the entire Mahler cycle of recordings, of which this completes the series, is exceptionally well recorded. I'm continually impressed with the remarkable orchestral balance achieved by Michael Tilson Thomas. The series is recorded in hybrid SACD with exceptionally well recorded surround sound. (I use M40.1s for two front channels and Helsinki 1.5s for the surrounds). I hope the SFS will continue making more recordings!
                > Best,
                >
                > Al
                >
              • laurie483000
                Correction - I meant to say the 9th Choral Symphony that is a bit strange - its a bit rushed for me. Laurie ... quite as enjoyable as the same orchestra s 8th
                Message 7 of 13 , Feb 25, 2010
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                  Correction - I meant to say the 9th Choral Symphony that is a bit strange - its a bit rushed for me.


                  Laurie


                  --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "laurie483000" <laurie483000@...> wrote:
                  >
                  quite as enjoyable as the same orchestra's 8th at St Pauls.
                  >
                  > Is there something of a trend here? - Orchestra own labels and the smaller companies generally, are still pushing out SACDs. I also bought the Vanska BIS Beethoven Symphony set for a very reasonable price. The CD versions in the same shop were at full cost surprisingly, but maybe the SACD set was on special offer. Worth having - except maybe for the 8th which seems a bit strange - but I'm anyway too familiar with this work nowadays.
                • Robert
                  Has anyone actually heard any of the recent (nonhornloaded) Cerwin Vega speakers? I would be interested in anyone has sonic impressions eg from shows or the
                  Message 8 of 13 , Feb 17, 2011
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                    Has anyone actually heard any of the recent (nonhornloaded)
                    Cerwin Vega speakers? I would be interested in anyone
                    has sonic impressions eg from shows or the like.

                    I think there is some interest in speakers that will play
                    really loudly--not because I want to play anything really loudly,
                    but because one might expect them to have really low levels
                    of distortion at lower , normal levels.

                    Of course there can be issues with super low levels as discussed here
                    http://www.regonaudio.com/Tact%20and%20Dali.html
                    But these issues would be more or less expected to be minimal for speakers with
                    high efficiency(or sensitivity as people like to say today)
                    which the CVs also have.
                    So one begins to wonder(given that frequency response is something
                    one can fix nowadays--assuming it needs fixing, which it might not
                    actually. )

                    Certainly the geometry is right in the big one referred to earlier

                    REG
                  • Edward
                    Hi Robert I have not heard the nonhornloaded models, but here is a listing for what appears to be the big hornloaded one you reviewed, by a slightly different
                    Message 9 of 13 , Feb 17, 2011
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                      Hi Robert

                      I have not heard the nonhornloaded models, but here is a listing for what appears to be the big hornloaded one you reviewed, by a slightly different name:

                      http://tinyurl.com/5wa7nhq

                      Edward


                      --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <regonaudio@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Has anyone actually heard any of the recent (nonhornloaded)
                      > Cerwin Vega speakers? I would be interested in anyone
                      > has sonic impressions eg from shows or the like.
                      >
                      > I think there is some interest in speakers that will play
                      > really loudly--not because I want to play anything really loudly,
                      > but because one might expect them to have really low levels
                      > of distortion at lower , normal levels.
                      >
                      > Of course there can be issues with super low levels as discussed here
                      > http://www.regonaudio.com/Tact%20and%20Dali.html
                      > But these issues would be more or less expected to be minimal for speakers with
                      > high efficiency(or sensitivity as people like to say today)
                      > which the CVs also have.
                      > So one begins to wonder(given that frequency response is something
                      > one can fix nowadays--assuming it needs fixing, which it might not
                      > actually. )
                      >
                      > Certainly the geometry is right in the big one referred to earlier
                      >
                      > REG
                      >
                    • Edward
                      Correction: the XLS-215 might be different from the CLS-215 Robert reviewed. This paragraph comes from a reader post on avguide.com: As best I can tell, the
                      Message 10 of 13 , Feb 17, 2011
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                        Correction: the XLS-215 might be different from the CLS-215 Robert reviewed. This paragraph comes from a reader post on avguide.com:

                        "As best I can tell, the CLS line is being replaced by an new "XLS" line. There's an XLS-215 model, but it's only rated down to 38 Hz (-3dB) as opposed to 24 Hz for the CLS-215. Also, I read on a forum somewhere that the XLS is being made out of different materials--if I remember correctly, paper on the new line vs. some sort of fiber-impregnated drivers on the old line."



                        --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Edward" <Edward_Wu@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hi Robert
                        >
                        > I have not heard the nonhornloaded models, but here is a listing for what appears to be the big hornloaded one you reviewed, by a slightly different name:
                        >
                        > http://tinyurl.com/5wa7nhq
                        >
                        > Edward
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <regonaudio@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Has anyone actually heard any of the recent (nonhornloaded)
                        > > Cerwin Vega speakers? I would be interested in anyone
                        > > has sonic impressions eg from shows or the like.
                        > >
                        > > I think there is some interest in speakers that will play
                        > > really loudly--not because I want to play anything really loudly,
                        > > but because one might expect them to have really low levels
                        > > of distortion at lower , normal levels.
                        > >
                        > > Of course there can be issues with super low levels as discussed here
                        > > http://www.regonaudio.com/Tact%20and%20Dali.html
                        > > But these issues would be more or less expected to be minimal for speakers with
                        > > high efficiency(or sensitivity as people like to say today)
                        > > which the CVs also have.
                        > > So one begins to wonder(given that frequency response is something
                        > > one can fix nowadays--assuming it needs fixing, which it might not
                        > > actually. )
                        > >
                        > > Certainly the geometry is right in the big one referred to earlier
                        > >
                        > > REG
                        > >
                        >
                      • Edward
                        And Amazon seems to have the old CLS-215 for $499 each, free shipping. http://tinyurl.com/6xxnum7
                        Message 11 of 13 , Feb 17, 2011
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                          And Amazon seems to have the old CLS-215 for $499 each, free shipping.

                          http://tinyurl.com/6xxnum7

                          --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Edward" <Edward_Wu@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Hi Robert
                          >
                          > I have not heard the nonhornloaded models, but here is a listing for what appears to be the big hornloaded one you reviewed, by a slightly different name:
                          >
                          > http://tinyurl.com/5wa7nhq
                          >
                          > Edward
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <regonaudio@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Has anyone actually heard any of the recent (nonhornloaded)
                          > > Cerwin Vega speakers? I would be interested in anyone
                          > > has sonic impressions eg from shows or the like.
                          > >
                          > > I think there is some interest in speakers that will play
                          > > really loudly--not because I want to play anything really loudly,
                          > > but because one might expect them to have really low levels
                          > > of distortion at lower , normal levels.
                          > >
                          > > Of course there can be issues with super low levels as discussed here
                          > > http://www.regonaudio.com/Tact%20and%20Dali.html
                          > > But these issues would be more or less expected to be minimal for speakers with
                          > > high efficiency(or sensitivity as people like to say today)
                          > > which the CVs also have.
                          > > So one begins to wonder(given that frequency response is something
                          > > one can fix nowadays--assuming it needs fixing, which it might not
                          > > actually. )
                          > >
                          > > Certainly the geometry is right in the big one referred to earlier
                          > >
                          > > REG
                          > >
                          >
                        • Tom Mallin
                          The CLS-215 has been listed as out of stock or temporarily out of stock at all on-line dealers for many months now. And if you try to buy it directly through
                          Message 12 of 13 , Feb 17, 2011
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                            The CLS-215 has been listed as out of stock or temporarily out of stock at all on-line dealers for many months now.  And if you try to buy it directly through CV's store, it is not available, while the XLS-215 model IS available.  This has also been true for many months.
                             
                            The Soundline pair is still available on Audiogon, by the way.
                             
                            >>> "Edward" <Edward_Wu@...> 2/17/2011 12:59 PM >>>
                            And Amazon seems to have the old CLS-215 for $499 each, free shipping.

                            http://tinyurl.com/6xxnum7

                            --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Edward" <Edward_Wu@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Hi Robert
                            >
                            > I have not heard the nonhornloaded models, but here is a listing for what appears to be the big hornloaded one you reviewed, by a slightly different name:
                            >
                            > http://tinyurl.com/5wa7nhq
                            >
                            > Edward
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <regonaudio@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > >  Has anyone actually heard any of the recent (nonhornloaded)
                            > > Cerwin Vega speakers? I would be interested in anyone
                            > > has sonic impressions eg from shows or the like.
                            > >
                            > > I think there is some interest in speakers that will play
                            > > really loudly--not because I want to play anything really loudly,
                            > > but because one might expect them to have really low levels
                            > > of distortion at lower , normal levels.
                            > >
                            > > Of course there can be issues with super low levels as discussed here
                            > > http://www.regonaudio.com/Tact%20and%20Dali.html
                            > > But these issues would be more or less expected to be minimal for speakers with
                            > > high efficiency(or sensitivity as people like to say today)
                            > > which the CVs also have.
                            > > So one begins to wonder(given that frequency response is something
                            > > one can fix nowadays--assuming it needs fixing, which it might not
                            > > actually. )
                            > >
                            > > Certainly the geometry is right in the big one referred to earlier
                            > >
                            > > REG
                            > >
                            >




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