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RE: [regsaudioforum] Tweeter accuracy

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  • Richard Tuck
    Hi Yip It would help to know the origin, context attribution of the statement. Richard _____ From: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
    Message 1 of 22 , Nov 4, 2005
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      Hi Yip
       
      It would help to know the origin, context attribution of the statement.
       
      Richard


      From: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ymm
      Sent: 04 November 2005 14:16
      To: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [regsaudioforum] Tweeter accuracy

      "Also, dome tweeters are far, far more forgiving compared to Cone or
      compression type tweeters."
       
       
      Hi all,
      Any experience with these types of tweeters .Any comment on this statement?
       
      best regards,
      Yip
       
       
       


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    • regtas43
      In some sense, I do not see how this could be true as stated. All your ear knows is what kind of energy arrives. It does not know the source. But horn
      Message 2 of 22 , Nov 4, 2005
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        In some sense, I do not see how this could be true as stated. All
        your ear knows is what kind of energy arrives. It does not know the
        source.
        But horn tweeters tend to be less smooth in response than dome
        tweeters so that they "revel" ore of the peakiness of material since
        they add their own peaks if you take my meaning.
        This is not better--it is worse.

        REG
        --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Tuck" <rtuck@t...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Hi Yip
        >
        > It would help to know the origin, context attribution of the
        statement.
        >
        > Richard
        >
        > _____
        >
        > From: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
        [mailto:regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com]
        > On Behalf Of ymm
        > Sent: 04 November 2005 14:16
        > To: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [regsaudioforum] Tweeter accuracy
        >
        >
        > "Also, dome tweeters are far, far more forgiving compared to Cone
        or
        > compression type tweeters."
        >
        >
        > Hi all,
        > Any experience with these types of tweeters .Any comment on this
        statement?
        >
        > best regards,
        > Yip
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > _____
        >
        > <http://sg.yimg.com/i/sg/icons/16/heart.gif> Meet your soulmate!
        >
        >
        <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/prm/pers/mt/yma_sg/tgl/*http://asia.yahoo.com/
        meetic
        > > Yahoo! Asia presents Meetic - where millions of singles gather
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      • ymm
        It was a challenge thrown to Peter Aczel s article on Ten Big Lies in audio . The writer said that a full-range compression horn speaker was the one that could
        Message 3 of 22 , Nov 4, 2005
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          It was a challenge thrown to Peter Aczel's article on Ten Big Lies in audio .
          The writer said that a full-range compression horn speaker was the one that could best differentiate the sound of the different cables used to connect the cdp to the amp in a DBT. It was a project to determine which cable to use in a DIY project to find the best cable for the connection of something.Dome tweeter fared the worse in the test.
           
          rgrds,
          Yip

          Richard Tuck <rtuck@...> wrote:
          Hi Yip
           
          It would help to know the origin, context attribution of the statement.
           
          Richard


          From: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ymm
          Sent: 04 November 2005 14:16
          To: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [regsaudioforum] Tweeter accuracy

          "Also, dome tweeters are far, far more forgiving compared to Cone or
          compression type tweeters."
           
           
          Hi all,
          Any experience with these types of tweeters .Any comment on this statement?
           
          best regards,
          Yip
           
           
           


          Meet your soulmate!
          Yahoo! Asia presents Meetic - where millions of singles gather


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        • regtas43
          This kind of thing is pretty much nonsense. The best item to tell things apart is often the worst item to listen to. If you want to sensitize yourself to
          Message 4 of 22 , Nov 4, 2005
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            This kind of thing is pretty much nonsense.

            The "best" item to tell things apart is often the worst item to
            listen to. If you want to sensitize yourself to peakiness elsewhere,
            use a peaky speaker. This will definitely make it possible to tell a
            lot of recordings apart--quite a few of them will become intolerable.

            Actually, when you think about it carefully, a flat low distortion
            system will make MORE things sound acceptable.

            Horn tweeters are so awful that it you do not get everything else as
            much in the direction of taming them down...

            This is just logic. The ear has certain thresholds, say for
            distortion. Obviously if the speaker system itself has no
            distortion, the things before it in the chain have to have more
            distortion to get over threshold than would happen if the speaker
            had a good bit itself.(Of course distortion comes in different types-
            -it does not just add up-- but the point is still valid).

            This is one of the monstrous fallacies of audio--that
            more "revealing" is always superior.

            Actually quite often the reverse is true.

            When I owned Quads I spent my life looking ofr recordings with
            recessed upper mids and a lot of midbass warmth.....
            to compensate for the defects of the speaker.

            REG

            --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, ymm <yipmangmeng@y...> wrote:
            >
            > It was a challenge thrown to Peter Aczel's article on Ten Big Lies
            in audio .
            > The writer said that a full-range compression horn speaker was the
            one that could best differentiate the sound of the different cables
            used to connect the cdp to the amp in a DBT. It was a project to
            determine which cable to use in a DIY project to find the best cable
            for the connection of something.Dome tweeter fared the worse in the
            test.
            >
            > rgrds,
            > Yip
            >
            > Richard Tuck <rtuck@t...> wrote:
            > Hi Yip
            >
            > It would help to know the origin, context attribution of the
            statement.
            >
            > Richard
            >
            >
            > ---------------------------------
            > From: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
            [mailto:regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ymm
            > Sent: 04 November 2005 14:16
            > To: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [regsaudioforum] Tweeter accuracy
            >
            >
            >
            > "Also, dome tweeters are far, far more forgiving compared to Cone
            or
            > compression type tweeters."
            >
            >
            > Hi all,
            > Any experience with these types of tweeters .Any comment on this
            statement?
            >
            > best regards,
            > Yip
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
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          • Ken Holder
            ... I ve often thought that in addition to bass and treble tone controls, a mid-range (or two) knob would be ideal. But I ve never understood those preamps
            Message 5 of 22 , Nov 4, 2005
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              At 05:57 PM 11/4/2005, regtas43 wrote:

              >When I owned Quads I spent my life looking ofr recordings with
              >recessed upper mids and a lot of midbass warmth.....
              >to compensate for the defects of the speaker.


              I've often thought that in addition to bass and treble tone
              controls, a mid-range (or two) knob would be ideal.

              But I've never understood those preamps with NO tone controls,
              which always struck me as the height of sillyness.

              Ken Holder
            • regtas43
              I agree, One thing though about the do it yourself EQ(computer stuff): Of course it is good to have control. But it is surprisingly hard to get EQ exactly
              Message 6 of 22 , Nov 6, 2005
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                I agree, One thing though about the do it yourself EQ(computer
                stuff): Of course it is good to have control. But it is surprisingly
                hard to get EQ exactly right. And with the automated programs, if
                the program is not quite right, it is hard to choose a target curve
                that works exactly right in audible terms.

                In short, the key to audio paradise is there somewhere but finding
                it among the many possibilities is tricky. It is easy to make things
                better but to make them as nearly perfect as possible is not so easy.

                But there is no doubt that it is all a lot easier than to try to do
                the same sort of thing by changing speakers, changing cables,
                changing this and that.

                One other thing: One still has to start with good speakers, although
                exactly what good means changes when you can control frequency
                response(How I wish that people would start to review speakers
                according to how good they sounded when they were optimally EQed!).
                The power of EQ is very great but it is not unlimited!!!

                REG

                --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, Ken Holder <ken.holder@g...>
                wrote:
                >
                > At 05:57 PM 11/4/2005, regtas43 wrote:
                >
                > >When I owned Quads I spent my life looking ofr recordings with
                > >recessed upper mids and a lot of midbass warmth.....
                > >to compensate for the defects of the speaker.
                >
                >
                > I've often thought that in addition to bass and treble tone
                > controls, a mid-range (or two) knob would be ideal.
                >
                > But I've never understood those preamps with NO tone controls,
                > which always struck me as the height of sillyness.
                >
                > Ken Holder
                >
              • george day
                Well, I learned through REG and another unnamed member of this list to take this quite seriously. I wound up with two EQ devices, one sound pressure meter, a
                Message 7 of 22 , Nov 7, 2005
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                  Well, I learned through REG and another unnamed member of this list to take
                  this quite seriously.

                  I wound up with two EQ devices, one sound pressure meter, a sheaf of graph
                  paper and some pencils. I felt like an unreformed nerd and my wife seconded
                  that opinion.

                  However, after much trial and error...and persistence...the effort paid off.
                  The sound in our living room was simply harmonious, neutral, effortless, and
                  real. Vocals sounded *real*. With rock, of course, it just sounded like
                  everything else...but with carefully recorded classical music of jazz, the
                  changes I viewed as subtle were not subtle at all.

                  Of course, yesterday I had to move everything to the lower room, thanks to a
                  painting and carpeting project. I didn't even both hooking up the EQ
                  equipment, because this is a "short stay." I can report this, however: the
                  Harbeth Monitor 40 is NOT to be feared. It is a remarkably even,
                  transparent instrument and it sounds very, very good all on it's own.

                  I'll x-post this to HUG.


                  On 11/6/05 9:00 PM, "regtas43" <regonaudio@...> wrote:

                  >
                  > I agree, One thing though about the do it yourself EQ(computer
                  > stuff): Of course it is good to have control. But it is surprisingly
                  > hard to get EQ exactly right. And with the automated programs, if
                  > the program is not quite right, it is hard to choose a target curve
                  > that works exactly right in audible terms.
                  >
                  > In short, the key to audio paradise is there somewhere but finding
                  > it among the many possibilities is tricky. It is easy to make things
                  > better but to make them as nearly perfect as possible is not so easy.
                  >
                  > But there is no doubt that it is all a lot easier than to try to do
                  > the same sort of thing by changing speakers, changing cables,
                  > changing this and that.
                  >
                  > One other thing: One still has to start with good speakers, although
                  > exactly what good means changes when you can control frequency
                  > response(How I wish that people would start to review speakers
                  > according to how good they sounded when they were optimally EQed!).
                  > The power of EQ is very great but it is not unlimited!!!
                  >
                  > REG
                  >
                  > --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, Ken Holder <ken.holder@g...>
                  > wrote:
                  >>
                  >> At 05:57 PM 11/4/2005, regtas43 wrote:
                  >>
                  >>> When I owned Quads I spent my life looking ofr recordings with
                  >>> recessed upper mids and a lot of midbass warmth.....
                  >>> to compensate for the defects of the speaker.
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> I've often thought that in addition to bass and treble tone
                  >> controls, a mid-range (or two) knob would be ideal.
                  >>
                  >> But I've never understood those preamps with NO tone controls,
                  >> which always struck me as the height of sillyness.
                  >>
                  >> Ken Holder
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • rzangpo2
                  Hooray! I should be taking delivery of my M40s this week, and George, I ve been planning to do exactly what you have just done (EQ, sound pressure meter,
                  Message 8 of 22 , Nov 7, 2005
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                    Hooray! I should be taking delivery of my M40s this week, and George,
                    I've been planning to do exactly what you have just done (EQ, sound
                    pressure meter, sheets of graph paper). How marvellous to hear that it
                    actually works!

                    Ron Stiskin
                    New York

                    --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, george day <george@h...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Well, I learned through REG and another unnamed member of this list
                    to take
                    > this quite seriously.
                    >
                    > I wound up with two EQ devices, one sound pressure meter, a sheaf of
                    graph
                    > paper and some pencils. I felt like an unreformed nerd and my wife
                    seconded
                    > that opinion.
                    >
                    > However, after much trial and error...and persistence...the effort
                    paid off.
                    > The sound in our living room was simply harmonious, neutral,
                    effortless, and
                    > real. Vocals sounded *real*. With rock, of course, it just sounded
                    like
                    > everything else...but with carefully recorded classical music of
                    jazz, the
                    > changes I viewed as subtle were not subtle at all.
                    >
                    > Of course, yesterday I had to move everything to the lower room,
                    thanks to a
                    > painting and carpeting project. I didn't even both hooking up the EQ
                    > equipment, because this is a "short stay." I can report this,
                    however: the
                    > Harbeth Monitor 40 is NOT to be feared. It is a remarkably even,
                    > transparent instrument and it sounds very, very good all on it's own.
                    >
                    > I'll x-post this to HUG.
                  • Richard Tuck
                    http://www.bostonaudiosociety.org/bas_speaker/abx_testing2.htm See the above link for an
                    Message 9 of 22 , Nov 8, 2005
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                      See the above link for an interesting report. 
                       
                      One conclusion not voiced is that distortions in an LP source clearly overwhelm those in even a 16/44.1k digital chain.
                       
                      Richard
                    • Neal Van Berg
                      Well, Perhaps on a Linn Table, but how about a good neutral table? : ) Neal Richard Tuck wrote:
                      Message 10 of 22 , Nov 8, 2005
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                        Well,
                         
                        Perhaps on a Linn Table, but how about a good neutral table?  :>)
                        Neal


                        Richard Tuck <rtuck@...> wrote:
                         
                        See the above link for an interesting report. 
                         
                        One conclusion not voiced is that distortions in an LP source clearly overwhelm those in even a 16/44.1k digital chain.
                         
                        Richard


                        Regards,

                        Neal Van Berg

                        Fax 303 660 6554


                        Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

                      • regtas43
                        In any kind of quick A/B or A/B /X test, good CD standard digital is far far far closer to a transparent medium than a commercially pressed LP, in my
                        Message 11 of 22 , Nov 8, 2005
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                          In any kind of quick A/B or A/B /X test, good CD standard digital is
                          far far far closer to a transparent medium than a commercially
                          pressed LP, in my experience. In fact, well done CD digital is quite
                          close to its source. Try making a CDR of a record. It is not bad!
                          Not perfect, but surprisingly close.

                          If you want to justify vinyl on anything but preservationist
                          (keeping our heritage) grounds, it has to be in terms of long term
                          listening effects.
                          NOISE is the most obvious of all errors and vinyl makes noise--not
                          just pops and ticks and so on but scraping noise etc.

                          Just turn up the volume a good bit on a "silent" groove to get the
                          point.

                          I still listen to a lot of vinyl, however--a lot of the music I like
                          exists only on vinyl, or, if reissued, was not reissued carefully
                          enough.

                          But vinyl has to live, it live it is going to, on a basis different
                          from a quick switch testing one.

                          REG




                          REG--- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, Neal Van Berg
                          <nealvb@y...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Well,
                          >
                          > Perhaps on a Linn Table, but how about a good neutral table? :>)
                          > Neal
                          >
                          >
                          > Richard Tuck <rtuck@t...> wrote:
                          > http://www.bostonaudiosociety.org/bas_speaker/abx_testing2.htm
                          >
                          > See the above link for an interesting report.
                          >
                          > One conclusion not voiced is that distortions in an LP source
                          clearly overwhelm those in even a 16/44.1k digital chain.
                          >
                          > Richard
                          >
                          >
                          > ---------------------------------
                          > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                          >
                          >
                          > Visit your group "regsaudioforum" on the web.
                          >
                          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          > regsaudioforum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          >
                          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                          Service.
                          >
                          >
                          > ---------------------------------
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Regards,
                          >
                          > Neal Van Berg
                          >
                          > Fax 303 660 6554
                          >
                          > ---------------------------------
                          > Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
                          >
                        • regtas43
                          Is this a joke?(I wrote my previous remarks without looking at the link). The thing I got on the link is from 1984!! And it used a Linn Kan speaker. With that
                          Message 12 of 22 , Nov 8, 2005
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                            Is this a joke?(I wrote my previous remarks without looking at the
                            link).
                            The thing I got on the link is from 1984!!

                            And it used a Linn Kan speaker.

                            With that you can hardly tell a dog barking from a telephone ringing
                            as far as I am concerned.

                            REG

                            PS The Boston Audio Society is famous for tests set up to give null
                            results. It is always possible to set up--indeed quite easy to do so--
                            te"tests" where no one can tell anything from anything else.

                            Surely everyone is aware for example of an AES demo (supposedly of
                            amplifier non-differences) where one of the amps had a dB more bass
                            than the other(it was a tube amp). The test showed that "no one" could
                            tell the difference among the amplifiers(never mind that some audio
                            reviewers present got six or seven right out of seven tries). But of
                            course hard science has demonstrated that 1 dB shifts in bass response
                            are easily heard--under the right conditions.

                            High Enders may exaggerate differences sometimes, but double blinders
                            have ways to fib,too, either accidentally or on purpose.

                            I am a scientific person--but the abuses of the concept of science in
                            audio is one of the things where the more you know about science the
                            more abusive they appear.
                            (bad English but you get the point).
                            The better scientist you are, the worse what people in audio claim is
                            science seems(in many cases).

                            --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Tuck" <rtuck@t...>
                            wrote:
                            >
                            > <http://www.bostonaudiosociety.org/bas_speaker/abx_testing2.htm>
                            > http://www.bostonaudiosociety.org/bas_speaker/abx_testing2.htm
                            >
                            > See the above link for an interesting report.
                            >
                            > One conclusion not voiced is that distortions in an LP source clearly
                            > overwhelm those in even a 16/44.1k digital chain.
                            >
                            > Richard
                            >
                          • Richard Tuck
                            Hi Robert Not a joke, I just tripped over it via the just posted list of US Audio Societies on the Stereophile website. But I do have to admit I did not notice
                            Message 13 of 22 , Nov 8, 2005
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                              Hi Robert
                               
                              Not a joke, I just tripped over it via the just posted list of US Audio Societies on the Stereophile website.
                               
                              But I do have to admit I did not notice the date of the trial.
                               
                              Richard


                              From: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of regtas43
                              Sent: 08 November 2005 15:59
                              To: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: [regsaudioforum] Re: Tiefenbrun again

                              Is this a joke?(I wrote my previous remarks without looking at the
                              link).
                              The thing I got on the link is from 1984!!

                              And it used a Linn Kan speaker.

                              With that you can hardly tell a dog barking from a telephone ringing
                              as far as I am concerned.

                              REG

                              PS The Boston Audio Society is famous for tests set up to give null
                              results. It is always possible to set up--indeed quite easy to do so--
                              te"tests" where no one can tell anything from anything else.

                              Surely everyone is aware for example of an AES demo (supposedly of
                              amplifier non-differences) where one of the amps had a dB more bass
                              than the other(it was a tube amp). The test showed that "no one" could
                              tell the difference among the amplifiers(never mind that some audio
                              reviewers present got six or seven right out of seven tries). But of
                              course hard science has demonstrated that 1 dB shifts in bass response
                              are easily heard--under the right conditions.

                              High Enders may exaggerate differences sometimes, but double blinders
                              have ways to fib,too, either accidentally or on purpose.

                              I am a scientific person--but the abuses of the concept of science in
                              audio is one of the things where the more you know about science the
                              more abusive they appear.
                              (bad English but you get the point).
                              The better scientist you are, the worse what people in audio claim is
                              science seems(in many cases).

                              --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Tuck" <rtuck@t...>
                              wrote:
                              >
                              >  <
                              href="http://www.bostonaudiosociety.org/bas_speaker/abx_testing2.htm">http://www.bostonaudiosociety.org/bas_speaker/abx_testing2.htm>
                              >
                              http://www.bostonaudiosociety.org/bas_speaker/abx_testing2.htm

                              > See the above link for an interesting report. 

                              > One conclusion not voiced is that distortions in an LP
                              source clearly
                              > overwhelm those in even a 16/44.1k digital
                              chain.

                              > Richard
                              >




                            • Neal Van Berg
                              Tom s point is very good. Perhaps the mixing technique that makes a good record makes a bad sounding CD? Neal Tom Mallin wrote: I noticed
                              Message 14 of 22 , Nov 8, 2005
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                                Tom's point is very good.  Perhaps the mixing technique that makes a good record makes a bad sounding CD?
                                 
                                Neal

                                Tom Mallin <tmallin@...> wrote:
                                I noticed the 1984 thing too, but then remembered that this was very early digital and was about the time that lots of people, including Robert, were saying that digital CD sources sounded quite nasty compared to good ol' analog LPs. They were noticing that with the speakers common back then, too. 
                                 
                                While I'm not familiar with the merit or lack thereof of Linn Kan speakers, it wasn't just the people with Quads who thought they could hear the difference between analog and digital recordings in 1984.  I had bright Thiel speakers at the time and the difference between an LP played on my LP-12/Grace 747/Grado Signature 8 combo v. any CD player playing the CD of the same material was subjectively night and day.  Much of the difference may have been tonal balance differences between remastered CDs and LPs, or colored LP players like the LP-12 v. flat-response CD players.  But I did not think at the time that those differences could account for the flattened stage and grating highs of the CDs.  Many astute listeners preferred analog LPs at that time to ANY available digital source used with ANY available speakers.
                                 
                                I think the significance of the 1984 test, if it was adequately constructed, was that a mere A/D + D/A conversion is not very audible even with the "bad" early digital equipment then used.  Thus, if those listeners who preferred LPs back then heard something wrong with CDs, it wasn't the mere conversion of analog material to 16-bit digital and back again that was causing the problem. 
                                 
                                >>> regonaudio@... 11/08/05 09:58AM >>>
                                Is this a joke?(I wrote my previous remarks without looking at the
                                link).
                                The thing I got on the link is from 1984!!

                                And it used a Linn Kan speaker.

                                With that you can hardly tell a dog barking from a telephone ringing
                                as far as I am concerned.

                                REG

                                PS The Boston Audio Society is famous for tests set up to give null
                                results. It is always possible to set up--indeed quite easy to do so--
                                te"tests" where no one can tell anything from anything else.

                                Surely everyone is aware for example of an AES demo (supposedly of
                                amplifier non-differences) where one of the amps had a dB more bass
                                than the other(it was a tube amp). The test showed that "no one" could
                                tell the difference among the amplifiers(never mind that some audio
                                reviewers present got six or seven right out of seven tries). But of
                                course hard science has demonstrated that 1 dB shifts in bass response
                                are easily heard--under the right conditions.

                                High Enders may exaggerate differences sometimes, but double blinders
                                have ways to fib,too, either accidentally or on purpose.

                                I am a scientific person--but the abuses of the concept of science in
                                audio is one of the things where the more you know about science the
                                more abusive they appear.
                                (bad English but you get the point).
                                The better scientist you are, the worse what people in audio claim is
                                science seems(in many cases).

                                --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Tuck" <rtuck@t...>
                                wrote:
                                >
                                >  <http://www.bostonaudiosociety.org/bas_speaker/abx_testing2.htm>
                                > http://www.bostonaudiosociety.org/bas_speaker/abx_testing2.htm

                                > See the above link for an interesting report. 

                                > One conclusion not voiced is that distortions in an LP source clearly
                                > overwhelm those in even a 16/44.1k digital chain.

                                > Richard
                                >






                                Regards,

                                Neal Van Berg

                                Fax 303 660 6554


                                Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

                              • Tom Mallin
                                I noticed the 1984 thing too, but then remembered that this was very early digital and was about the time that lots of people, including Robert, were saying
                                Message 15 of 22 , Nov 8, 2005
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  I noticed the 1984 thing too, but then remembered that this was very early digital and was about the time that lots of people, including Robert, were saying that digital CD sources sounded quite nasty compared to good ol' analog LPs. They were noticing that with the speakers common back then, too. 
                                   
                                  While I'm not familiar with the merit or lack thereof of Linn Kan speakers, it wasn't just the people with Quads who thought they could hear the difference between analog and digital recordings in 1984.  I had bright Thiel speakers at the time and the difference between an LP played on my LP-12/Grace 747/Grado Signature 8 combo v. any CD player playing the CD of the same material was subjectively night and day.  Much of the difference may have been tonal balance differences between remastered CDs and LPs, or colored LP players like the LP-12 v. flat-response CD players.  But I did not think at the time that those differences could account for the flattened stage and grating highs of the CDs.  Many astute listeners preferred analog LPs at that time to ANY available digital source used with ANY available speakers.
                                   
                                  I think the significance of the 1984 test, if it was adequately constructed, was that a mere A/D + D/A conversion is not very audible even with the "bad" early digital equipment then used.  Thus, if those listeners who preferred LPs back then heard something wrong with CDs, it wasn't the mere conversion of analog material to 16-bit digital and back again that was causing the problem. 
                                   
                                  >>> regonaudio@... 11/08/05 09:58AM >>>
                                  Is this a joke?(I wrote my previous remarks without looking at the
                                  link).
                                  The thing I got on the link is from 1984!!

                                  And it used a Linn Kan speaker.

                                  With that you can hardly tell a dog barking from a telephone ringing
                                  as far as I am concerned.

                                  REG

                                  PS The Boston Audio Society is famous for tests set up to give null
                                  results. It is always possible to set up--indeed quite easy to do so--
                                  te"tests" where no one can tell anything from anything else.

                                  Surely everyone is aware for example of an AES demo (supposedly of
                                  amplifier non-differences) where one of the amps had a dB more bass
                                  than the other(it was a tube amp). The test showed that "no one" could
                                  tell the difference among the amplifiers(never mind that some audio
                                  reviewers present got six or seven right out of seven tries). But of
                                  course hard science has demonstrated that 1 dB shifts in bass response
                                  are easily heard--under the right conditions.

                                  High Enders may exaggerate differences sometimes, but double blinders
                                  have ways to fib,too, either accidentally or on purpose.

                                  I am a scientific person--but the abuses of the concept of science in
                                  audio is one of the things where the more you know about science the
                                  more abusive they appear.
                                  (bad English but you get the point).
                                  The better scientist you are, the worse what people in audio claim is
                                  science seems(in many cases).

                                  --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Tuck" <rtuck@t...>
                                  wrote:
                                  >
                                  >  <
                                  href="http://www.bostonaudiosociety.org/bas_speaker/abx_testing2.htm">http://www.bostonaudiosociety.org/bas_speaker/abx_testing2.htm>
                                  >
                                  http://www.bostonaudiosociety.org/bas_speaker/abx_testing2.htm

                                  > See the above link for an interesting report. 

                                  > One conclusion not voiced is that distortions in an LP
                                  source clearly
                                  > overwhelm those in even a 16/44.1k digital
                                  chain.

                                  > Richard
                                  >




                                • ymm
                                  Dear REG, It s Ivor s gear and he said and still swears that they are very very good at reproducing PRaT and musicality and if he couldn t come out well in the
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Nov 9, 2005
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                     Dear REG,
                                     
                                    It's Ivor's gear and he said and still swears that they are very very good at reproducing PRaT and musicality and if he couldn't come out well in the ABX test,no one needs to defend him.So what if you think Linn Kan is a  poor speaker, Ivor said it's good enough for him to use it and thought he would come out fine in the test. But,in actual fact, he flunked miserably. So much for the Linn hype.
                                    Science may not help you design a better speaker than the Harbeth M40s  but even AS said that he need tech to design his speakers and only fine-tunes it by ears by comparing the reproduced  sound to a live source.
                                    But ABX is a good test to ferret out the really tin -ears who make outrageous claims.
                                    Don't be too hard on science. It's mistaken scientism that bugs.
                                    AES demos may stink but there are many serious DBT tests done that showed that the so called night-and day-differences are just so much illusion.
                                    and pure imagination and guesswork.
                                     
                                    best regards,
                                    Yip

                                    regtas43 <regonaudio@...> wrote:
                                    Is this a joke?(I wrote my previous remarks without looking at the
                                    link).
                                    The thing I got on the link is from 1984!!

                                    And it used a Linn Kan speaker.

                                    With that you can hardly tell a dog barking from a telephone ringing
                                    as far as I am concerned.

                                    REG

                                    PS The Boston Audio Society is famous for tests set up to give null
                                    results. It is always possible to set up--indeed quite easy to do so--
                                    te"tests" where no one can tell anything from anything else.

                                    Surely everyone is aware for example of an AES demo (supposedly of
                                    amplifier non-differences) where one of the amps had a dB more bass
                                    than the other(it was a tube amp). The test showed that "no one" could
                                    tell the difference among the amplifiers(never mind that some audio
                                    reviewers present got six or seven right out of seven tries). But of
                                    course hard science has demonstrated that 1 dB shifts in bass response
                                    are easily heard--under the right conditions.

                                    High Enders may exaggerate differences sometimes, but double blinders
                                    have ways to fib,too, either accidentally or on purpose.

                                    I am a scientific person--but the abuses of the concept of science in
                                    audio is one of the things where the more you know about science the
                                    more abusive they appear.
                                    (bad English but you get the point).
                                    The better scientist you are, the worse what people in audio claim is
                                    science seems(in many cases).

                                    --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Tuck" <rtuck@t...>
                                    wrote:
                                    >
                                    >  <http://www.bostonaudiosociety.org/bas_speaker/abx_testing2.htm>
                                    > http://www.bostonaudiosociety.org/bas_speaker/abx_testing2.htm

                                    > See the above link for an interesting report. 

                                    > One conclusion not voiced is that distortions in an LP source clearly
                                    > overwhelm those in even a 16/44.1k digital chain.

                                    > Richard
                                    >





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                                  • ymm
                                    Why care about the date? Yip Richard Tuck wrote: Hi Robert Not a joke, I just tripped over it via the just posted list of US Audio
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Nov 9, 2005
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Why care about the date?
                                      Yip

                                      Richard Tuck <rtuck@...> wrote:
                                      Hi Robert
                                       
                                      Not a joke, I just tripped over it via the just posted list of US Audio Societies on the Stereophile website.
                                       
                                      But I do have to admit I did not notice the date of the trial.
                                       
                                      Richard


                                      From: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of regtas43
                                      Sent: 08 November 2005 15:59
                                      To: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: [regsaudioforum] Re: Tiefenbrun again

                                      Is this a joke?(I wrote my previous remarks without looking at the
                                      link).
                                      The thing I got on the link is from 1984!!

                                      And it used a Linn Kan speaker.

                                      With that you can hardly tell a dog barking from a telephone ringing
                                      as far as I am concerned.

                                      REG

                                      PS The Boston Audio Society is famous for tests set up to give null
                                      results. It is always possible to set up--indeed quite easy to do so--
                                      te"tests" where no one can tell anything from anything else.

                                      Surely everyone is aware for example of an AES demo (supposedly of
                                      amplifier non-differences) where one of the amps had a dB more bass
                                      than the other(it was a tube amp). The test showed that "no one" could
                                      tell the difference among the amplifiers(never mind that some audio
                                      reviewers present got six or seven right out of seven tries). But of
                                      course hard science has demonstrated that 1 dB shifts in bass response
                                      are easily heard--under the right conditions.

                                      High Enders may exaggerate differences sometimes, but double blinders
                                      have ways to fib,too, either accidentally or on purpose.

                                      I am a scientific person--but the abuses of the concept of science in
                                      audio is one of the things where the more you know about science the
                                      more abusive they appear.
                                      (bad English but you get the point).
                                      The better scientist you are, the worse what people in audio claim is
                                      science seems(in many cases).

                                      --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Tuck" <rtuck@t...>
                                      wrote:
                                      >
                                      >  <http://www.bostonaudiosociety.org/bas_speaker/abx_testing2.htm>
                                      > http://www.bostonaudiosociety.org/bas_speaker/abx_testing2.htm

                                      > See the above link for an interesting report. 

                                      > One conclusion not voiced is that distortions in an LP source clearly
                                      > overwhelm those in even a 16/44.1k digital chain.

                                      > Richard
                                      >





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                                    • ymm
                                      The pro-digital camp had been saying that for years. No excellent CDs produced then ,none at all? best regards, Yip Neal Van Berg wrote:
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Nov 9, 2005
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        The pro-digital camp had been saying that for years. No excellent CDs produced then ,none at all?
                                         
                                        best regards,
                                        Yip 

                                        Neal Van Berg <nealvb@...> wrote:
                                        Tom's point is very good.  Perhaps the mixing technique that makes a good record makes a bad sounding CD?
                                         
                                        Neal

                                        Tom Mallin <tmallin@...> wrote:
                                        I noticed the 1984 thing too, but then remembered that this was very early digital and was about the time that lots of people, including Robert, were saying that digital CD sources sounded quite nasty compared to good ol' analog LPs. They were noticing that with the speakers common back then, too. 
                                         
                                        While I'm not familiar with the merit or lack thereof of Linn Kan speakers, it wasn't just the people with Quads who thought they could hear the difference between analog and digital recordings in 1984.  I had bright Thiel speakers at the time and the difference between an LP played on my LP-12/Grace 747/Grado Signature 8 combo v. any CD player playing the CD of the same material was subjectively night and day.  Much of the difference may have been tonal balance differences between remastered CDs and LPs, or colored LP players like the LP-12 v. flat-response CD players.  But I did not think at the time that those differences could account for the flattened stage and grating highs of the CDs.  Many astute listeners preferred analog LPs at that time to ANY available digital source used with ANY available speakers.
                                         
                                        I think the significance of the 1984 test, if it was adequately constructed, was that a mere A/D + D/A conversion is not very audible even with the "bad" early digital equipment then used.  Thus, if those listeners who preferred LPs back then heard something wrong with CDs, it wasn't the mere conversion of analog material to 16-bit digital and back again that was causing the problem. 
                                         
                                        >>> regonaudio@... 11/08/05 09:58AM >>>
                                        Is this a joke?(I wrote my previous remarks without looking at the
                                        link).
                                        The thing I got on the link is from 1984!!

                                        And it used a Linn Kan speaker.

                                        With that you can hardly tell a dog barking from a telephone ringing
                                        as far as I am concerned.

                                        REG

                                        PS The Boston Audio Society is famous for tests set up to give null
                                        results. It is always possible to set up--indeed quite easy to do so--
                                        te"tests" where no one can tell anything from anything else.

                                        Surely everyone is aware for example of an AES demo (supposedly of
                                        amplifier non-differences) where one of the amps had a dB more bass
                                        than the other(it was a tube amp). The test showed that "no one" could
                                        tell the difference among the amplifiers(never mind that some audio
                                        reviewers present got six or seven right out of seven tries). But of
                                        course hard science has demonstrated that 1 dB shifts in bass response
                                        are easily heard--under the right conditions.

                                        High Enders may exaggerate differences sometimes, but double blinders
                                        have ways to fib,too, either accidentally or on purpose.

                                        I am a scientific person--but the abuses of the concept of science in
                                        audio is one of the things where the more you know about science the
                                        more abusive they appear.
                                        (bad English but you get the point).
                                        The better scientist you are, the worse what people in audio claim is
                                        science seems(in many cases).

                                        --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Tuck" <rtuck@t...>
                                        wrote:
                                        >
                                        >  <http://www.bostonaudiosociety.org/bas_speaker/abx_testing2.htm>
                                        > http://www.bostonaudiosociety.org/bas_speaker/abx_testing2.htm

                                        > See the above link for an interesting report. 

                                        > One conclusion not voiced is that distortions in an LP source clearly
                                        > overwhelm those in even a 16/44.1k digital chain.

                                        > Richard
                                        >






                                        Regards,

                                        Neal Van Berg

                                        Fax 303 660 6554


                                        Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

                                        Send instant messages to your online friends http://asia.messenger.yahoo.com

                                      • regtas43
                                        Well, of course. I was not being hard on science, I was being hard on what audio people call science. That is a quite different thing. The main problem here is
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Nov 9, 2005
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Well, of course. I was not being hard on science, I was being hard
                                          on what audio people call science. That is a quite different thing.

                                          The main problem here is that very few serious scientific people are
                                          interested in audio. Most of the people who really know what is what
                                          about human hearing work either on theory or on helping the hearing
                                          impaired. No doubt that is as it should be. They need help the most.
                                          Of course there are exceptions--please don't start saying "But what
                                          about so and so ?".
                                          But on the whole it is not a big field of scientific research.
                                          And much of what is supposed to be "research" is actually thinly
                                          disguised commercial promotion.

                                          REG

                                          --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, ymm <yipmangmeng@y...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Dear REG,
                                          >
                                          > It's Ivor's gear and he said and still swears that they are very
                                          very good at reproducing PRaT and musicality and if he couldn't come
                                          out well in the ABX test,no one needs to defend him.So what if you
                                          think Linn Kan is a poor speaker, Ivor said it's good enough for
                                          him to use it and thought he would come out fine in the test. But,in
                                          actual fact, he flunked miserably. So much for the Linn hype.
                                          > Science may not help you design a better speaker than the Harbeth
                                          M40s but even AS said that he need tech to design his speakers and
                                          only fine-tunes it by ears by comparing the reproduced sound to a
                                          live source.
                                          > But ABX is a good test to ferret out the really tin -ears who make
                                          outrageous claims.
                                          > Don't be too hard on science. It's mistaken scientism that bugs.
                                          > AES demos may stink but there are many serious DBT tests done that
                                          showed that the so called night-and day-differences are just so much
                                          illusion.
                                          > and pure imagination and guesswork.
                                          >
                                          > best regards,
                                          > Yip
                                          >
                                          > regtas43 <regonaudio@a...> wrote:
                                          > Is this a joke?(I wrote my previous remarks without looking at the
                                          > link).
                                          > The thing I got on the link is from 1984!!
                                          >
                                          > And it used a Linn Kan speaker.
                                          >
                                          > With that you can hardly tell a dog barking from a telephone
                                          ringing
                                          > as far as I am concerned.
                                          >
                                          > REG
                                          >
                                          > PS The Boston Audio Society is famous for tests set up to give
                                          null
                                          > results. It is always possible to set up--indeed quite easy to do
                                          so--
                                          > te"tests" where no one can tell anything from anything else.
                                          >
                                          > Surely everyone is aware for example of an AES demo (supposedly of
                                          > amplifier non-differences) where one of the amps had a dB more
                                          bass
                                          > than the other(it was a tube amp). The test showed that "no one"
                                          could
                                          > tell the difference among the amplifiers(never mind that some
                                          audio
                                          > reviewers present got six or seven right out of seven tries). But
                                          of
                                          > course hard science has demonstrated that 1 dB shifts in bass
                                          response
                                          > are easily heard--under the right conditions.
                                          >
                                          > High Enders may exaggerate differences sometimes, but double
                                          blinders
                                          > have ways to fib,too, either accidentally or on purpose.
                                          >
                                          > I am a scientific person--but the abuses of the concept of science
                                          in
                                          > audio is one of the things where the more you know about science
                                          the
                                          > more abusive they appear.
                                          > (bad English but you get the point).
                                          > The better scientist you are, the worse what people in audio claim
                                          is
                                          > science seems(in many cases).
                                          >
                                          > --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Tuck" <rtuck@t...>
                                          > wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > <http://www.bostonaudiosociety.org/bas_speaker/abx_testing2.htm>
                                          > > http://www.bostonaudiosociety.org/bas_speaker/abx_testing2.htm
                                          > >
                                          > > See the above link for an interesting report.
                                          > >
                                          > > One conclusion not voiced is that distortions in an LP source
                                          clearly
                                          > > overwhelm those in even a 16/44.1k digital chain.
                                          > >
                                          > > Richard
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > SPONSORED LINKS
                                          > Electronics Hobby and craft supply Craft hobby Hobbies and crafts
                                          Electronics hobby Hobby electronics
                                          >
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                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Visit your group "regsaudioforum" on the web.
                                          >
                                          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                          > regsaudioforum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                          >
                                          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
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                                        • ymm
                                          Of course,we know all those snake oil stuff are couched in pseudo-scientific nonsensical language. Yi regtas43 wrote: Well, of course. I
                                          Message 20 of 22 , Nov 9, 2005
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Of course,we  know all those snake oil stuff are couched in pseudo-scientific nonsensical language.
                                             
                                            Yi

                                            regtas43 <regonaudio@...> wrote:
                                            Well, of course. I was not being hard on science, I was being hard
                                            on what audio people call science. That is a quite different thing.

                                            The main problem here is that very few serious scientific people are
                                            interested in audio. Most of the people who really know what is what
                                            about human hearing work either on theory or on helping the hearing
                                            impaired. No doubt that is as it should be. They need help the most.
                                            Of course there are exceptions--please don't start saying "But what
                                            about so and so ?".
                                            But on the whole it is not a big field of scientific research.
                                            And much of what is supposed to be "research" is actually thinly
                                            disguised commercial promotion.

                                            REG

                                            --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, ymm <yipmangmeng@y...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            >  Dear REG,

                                            > It's Ivor's gear and he said and still swears that they are very
                                            very good at reproducing PRaT and musicality and if he couldn't come
                                            out well in the ABX test,no one needs to defend him.So what if you
                                            think Linn Kan is a  poor speaker, Ivor said it's good enough for
                                            him to use it and thought he would come out fine in the test. But,in
                                            actual fact, he flunked miserably. So much for the Linn hype.
                                            > Science may not help you design a better speaker than the Harbeth
                                            M40s  but even AS said that he need tech to design his speakers and
                                            only fine-tunes it by ears by comparing the reproduced  sound to a
                                            live source.
                                            > But ABX is a good test to ferret out the really tin -ears who make
                                            outrageous claims.
                                            > Don't be too hard on science. It's mistaken scientism that bugs.
                                            > AES demos may stink but there are many serious DBT tests done that
                                            showed that the so called night-and day-differences are just so much
                                            illusion.
                                            > and pure imagination and guesswork.

                                            > best regards,
                                            > Yip
                                            >
                                            > regtas43 <regonaudio@a...> wrote:
                                            > Is this a joke?(I wrote my previous remarks without looking at the
                                            > link).
                                            > The thing I got on the link is from 1984!!
                                            >
                                            > And it used a Linn Kan speaker.
                                            >
                                            > With that you can hardly tell a dog barking from a telephone
                                            ringing
                                            > as far as I am concerned.
                                            >
                                            > REG
                                            >
                                            > PS The Boston Audio Society is famous for tests set up to give
                                            null
                                            > results. It is always possible to set up--indeed quite easy to do
                                            so--
                                            > te"tests" where no one can tell anything from anything else.
                                            >
                                            > Surely everyone is aware for example of an AES demo (supposedly of
                                            > amplifier non-differences) where one of the amps had a dB more
                                            bass
                                            > than the other(it was a tube amp). The test showed that "no one"
                                            could
                                            > tell the difference among the amplifiers(never mind that some
                                            audio
                                            > reviewers present got six or seven right out of seven tries). But
                                            of
                                            > course hard science has demonstrated that 1 dB shifts in bass
                                            response
                                            > are easily heard--under the right conditions.
                                            >
                                            > High Enders may exaggerate differences sometimes, but double
                                            blinders
                                            > have ways to fib,too, either accidentally or on purpose.
                                            >
                                            > I am a scientific person--but the abuses of the concept of science
                                            in
                                            > audio is one of the things where the more you know about science
                                            the
                                            > more abusive they appear.
                                            > (bad English but you get the point).
                                            > The better scientist you are, the worse what people in audio claim
                                            is
                                            > science seems(in many cases).
                                            >
                                            > --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Tuck" <rtuck@t...>
                                            > wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > >  <http://www.bostonaudiosociety.org/bas_speaker/abx_testing2.htm>
                                            > > http://www.bostonaudiosociety.org/bas_speaker/abx_testing2.htm
                                            > > 
                                            > > See the above link for an interesting report. 
                                            > > 
                                            > > One conclusion not voiced is that distortions in an LP source
                                            clearly
                                            > > overwhelm those in even a 16/44.1k digital chain.
                                            > > 
                                            > > Richard
                                            > >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > SPONSORED LINKS
                                            > Electronics Hobby and craft supply Craft hobby Hobbies and crafts
                                            Electronics hobby Hobby electronics
                                            >
                                            > ---------------------------------
                                            > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >     Visit your group "regsaudioforum" on the web.
                                            >  
                                            >     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                            >  regsaudioforum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                            >  
                                            >     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                            Service.
                                            >
                                            >
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                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >            
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                                          • Kwing Lee
                                            George: This sounds great! Can you give a detail description of what and how you did it? And did you have to treat your room with bass traps? Did you biamp? or
                                            Message 21 of 22 , Nov 9, 2005
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              George:

                                              This sounds great!
                                              Can you give a detail description of what and how you
                                              did it? And did you have to treat your room with bass
                                              traps? Did you biamp? or put the Equalizer between
                                              preamp and amp?

                                              Kwing

                                              --- george day <george@...> wrote:

                                              > Well, I learned through REG and another unnamed
                                              > member of this list to take
                                              > this quite seriously.
                                              >
                                              > I wound up with two EQ devices, one sound pressure
                                              > meter, a sheaf of graph
                                              > paper and some pencils. I felt like an unreformed
                                              > nerd and my wife seconded
                                              > that opinion.
                                              >
                                              > However, after much trial and error...and
                                              > persistence...the effort paid off.
                                              > The sound in our living room was simply harmonious,
                                              > neutral, effortless, and
                                              > real. Vocals sounded *real*. With rock, of course,
                                              > it just sounded like
                                              > everything else...but with carefully recorded
                                              > classical music of jazz, the
                                              > changes I viewed as subtle were not subtle at all.
                                              >
                                              > Of course, yesterday I had to move everything to the
                                              > lower room, thanks to a
                                              > painting and carpeting project. I didn't even both
                                              > hooking up the EQ
                                              > equipment, because this is a "short stay." I can
                                              > report this, however: the
                                              > Harbeth Monitor 40 is NOT to be feared. It is a
                                              > remarkably even,
                                              > transparent instrument and it sounds very, very good
                                              > all on it's own.
                                              >
                                              > I'll x-post this to HUG.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > On 11/6/05 9:00 PM, "regtas43" <regonaudio@...>
                                              > wrote:
                                              >
                                              > >
                                              > > I agree, One thing though about the do it yourself
                                              > EQ(computer
                                              > > stuff): Of course it is good to have control. But
                                              > it is surprisingly
                                              > > hard to get EQ exactly right. And with the
                                              > automated programs, if
                                              > > the program is not quite right, it is hard to
                                              > choose a target curve
                                              > > that works exactly right in audible terms.
                                              > >
                                              > > In short, the key to audio paradise is there
                                              > somewhere but finding
                                              > > it among the many possibilities is tricky. It is
                                              > easy to make things
                                              > > better but to make them as nearly perfect as
                                              > possible is not so easy.
                                              > >
                                              > > But there is no doubt that it is all a lot easier
                                              > than to try to do
                                              > > the same sort of thing by changing speakers,
                                              > changing cables,
                                              > > changing this and that.
                                              > >
                                              > > One other thing: One still has to start with good
                                              > speakers, although
                                              > > exactly what good means changes when you can
                                              > control frequency
                                              > > response(How I wish that people would start to
                                              > review speakers
                                              > > according to how good they sounded when they were
                                              > optimally EQed!).
                                              > > The power of EQ is very great but it is not
                                              > unlimited!!!
                                              > >
                                              > > REG
                                              > >
                                              > > --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, Ken Holder
                                              > <ken.holder@g...>
                                              > > wrote:
                                              > >>
                                              > >> At 05:57 PM 11/4/2005, regtas43 wrote:
                                              > >>
                                              > >>> When I owned Quads I spent my life looking ofr
                                              > recordings with
                                              > >>> recessed upper mids and a lot of midbass
                                              > warmth.....
                                              > >>> to compensate for the defects of the speaker.
                                              > >>
                                              > >>
                                              > >> I've often thought that in addition to bass and
                                              > treble tone
                                              > >> controls, a mid-range (or two) knob would be
                                              > ideal.
                                              > >>
                                              > >> But I've never understood those preamps with NO
                                              > tone controls,
                                              > >> which always struck me as the height of
                                              > sillyness.
                                              > >>
                                              > >> Ken Holder
                                              > >>
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >




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