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Re: TacT 2.2XP Measuring and Target Curve Tricks\

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  • Robert Greene
    This is definitely true about flatter target curve for narrow radiation pattern speakers being appropriate, if the measurement involves any room sound at the
    Message 1 of 21 , Jun 2, 2008
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      This is definitely true about flatter target curve for narrow
      radiation pattern speakers being appropriate, if the measurement
      involves any room sound at the top end at all.

      This is just an aspect of the thing I have been writing about for a
      long time, that one wants flat direct arrival but not flat room sound.
      And if the speaker does not itself roll off its power response
      in the top then you will need to roll the response down
      on axis to avoid "ear burning" sound from the fact that the diffuse
      field response of the ear is so different from the direct arrival
      response(the former emphasizing highs). There is a curve on the
      difference here
      http://www.regonaudio.com/The%20GREAT%20Divide.html
      on this.
      The effect is LARGE

      REG

      PS The point is that when the speaker is highly directional, then
      most of the measured response is direct arrival --which you do want
      at least fairly flat. Note ,however, that when in doubt, pull the top
      end response down. Concert halls roll top, they never push it up. And
      most recordings have a lot more top than real music anyway(through
      close miking etc) as we have often discussed(cf also
      http://www.regonaudio.com/Records%20and%20Reality.html
      --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Jose Ramos" <jramos@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Hi Tom
      >
      > Good measured response from the Gradient 1.5 - how does the sound
      > respond to Tact RCS? Does the Tact still weave its usual magic?
      > From your curves, it would seem that the Fathom subs are a must in
      > your room with these speakers.
      > Let us know your listening impressions.
      >
      > Regards
      >
      > Jose
      >
      > --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Mallin" <tmallin@>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > > Perhaps I have just been slow to discover a couple of TacT 2.2XP
      > software functions which greatly assist in measuring speaker
      > frequency response and constructing target curves so that all you
      do
      > is pull down peaks and never fill in dips. Or, perhaps these
      > functions snuck in via software updates over the past few months.
      In
      > any event, I just discovered them and since I have not seen anyone
      > else mention them here or on the TacT boards in the last year or
      so,
      > I thought I would mention them.
      > >
      > > 1. Getting the frequency response measurement to show 0 dB at 1
      > KHz:
      > >
      > > This is the standard way to "normalize" response measurements.
      > Getting the TacT to do this via its automatic microphone gain
      > function can be tedious. You have to play around with the pulse
      > strength to move the overall measurement graph up and down with
      > respect to 0 dB. You can only adjust the pulse strength so far
      > before the TacT will adjust the microphone gain again and thus move
      > the graph away from your intended position.
      > >
      > > I just discovered that the Measurement dialog box has an Options
      > dropdown which allows you to select manual microphone preamp gain.
      > By selecting manual gain and holding the microphone preamp gain at
      12
      > dB, I was able to manipulate the pulse strength to get the Gradient
      > response curve to cross the 0 dB line at exactly 1 kHz.
      > >
      > > Yes, choosing manual preamp gain does sacrifice a bit of signal-
      to-
      > noise ratio in the measurements, but using a high number of
      averaged
      > measurements--50--the way I do, this should not be a problem. That
      > is especially so since I was only 1.5 dB away from the TacT's
      > automatic preamp gain setting of 13.5 dB for the pulse strength I
      was
      > using.
      > >
      > > 2. Constructing a target curve which only brings down "peaks"
      and
      > never fills in "dips."
      > >
      > > The danger of using EQ to fill in significant dips has been
      > discussed here many times, as has the advantage of having speakers
      > which have a "rich" bass end in the set up you choose so that you
      > only have to pull down peaks. Using EQ in that manner helps keep
      > distortion low by decreasing driver excursion and amp power needed
      > for any SPL.
      > >
      > > The Gradient 1.5s presented me with a new challenge since their
      > bass is not really "warm" in my set up, contrary to the other
      > speakers I've been using in this same position. In reading the
      Help
      > screens, I came up with a solution involving the use of the Offset
      > function available by right-clicking on the target curve button and
      > choosing Offset.
      > >
      > > I constructed a preliminary target curve rolling the highs off
      > smoothly above 1.5 kHz so that they are 3.2 dB down by 20 kHz.
      Bass
      > is flat to 10.5 Hz. This is the shape of the target curve shown in
      > my picture of the combined response of the 1.5s and JL subwoofers.
      > This preliminary target was chosen since the highs sounded about
      > right without any EQ and this curve roughly followed the measured
      > unequalized response of the speaker from 1.5 kHz to 20 kHz.
      > >
      > > Applying such a target at the 0 dB level would, however, result
      in
      > boosting midrange and bass frequencies at several frequencies by a
      > few dB. I wanted to avoid that.
      > >
      > > After constructing this target curve along the 0 dB line, I then
      > used the Offset function to move the target curve down 6.2 dB
      across
      > the full spectrum so that the target curve just touched the lowest
      > dip in response. As you can see in the picture, now most all
      > frequencies must be equalized downward to reach the target curve;
      no
      > filling in of dips is required.
      > >
      > > With the Offset function operating, you then click the Engage
      > button on the screen. Then you can save the offset target curve by
      > right clicking the target button and choosing "Save As." The
      > indicated Offset goes away once you toggle to another preset target
      > curve and back to the saved one.
      > >
      > > Yes, this lower target curve sounds quieter for any given gain
      > setting of the TacT. But since I have gain to burn in my system,
      > that's not a problem. Now I'm not claiming that the target curve
      so
      > constructed sounds better than one which involves both filling of
      > dips and dropping of peaks, but that is what I hear. :-)
      > >
      > > 3. Coming TacT 2.2XP Software Enhancements
      > >
      > > Anthony Padilla of Maui Mods, who is also now a TacT employee,
      has
      > vaguely hinted over on the TacT boards that TacT will soon be
      > releasing a software enhancement for the 2.2XP which will allow
      users
      > to turn off the TacT's EQ function above any chosen frequency.
      This
      > would mimic a function of a program Uli once constructed for the
      > 2.2X, but which does not work with the XP. I and others have urged
      > TacT to do this. This will be a worthwhile option, I think, since
      I
      > and others have found that with some speakers the TacT sounds
      better
      > with a high frequency target curve which follows the measured
      > frequency response as closely as possible.
      > >
      > > 4. General Sonic Note as to Gradient 1.5 and TacT Target Curves
      > >
      > > I've noticed a pattern: the more directional the speaker's mids
      > and highs, the closer to flat the TacT target curve can be in the
      > highs in my room and still sound natural. The wide dispersion Ohms
      > required considerable rolloff to sound natural; a flat target curve
      > sounding quite thin and nasty. The M40s were somewhat more natural
      > with a flat target, the Gradient 1.3s yet more natural. Now, with
      > the 1.5s, a totally flat target sounds just a bit wispy, not too
      bad
      > at all. The 3.2 dB slope seems to be plenty of rolloff with the
      > 1.5s, whereas I was using 6.5 dB of rolloff with the Gradient 1.3s.
      > >
      >
    • Tom Mallin
      I m going to nickname the Gradient 1.5 The Clarifier. The clarification of all that is on the recording is amazing, but they do this with no excess
      Message 2 of 21 , Jun 2, 2008
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        I'm going to nickname the Gradient 1.5 "The Clarifier."  The clarification of all that is on the recording is amazing, but they do this with no excess brightness.  This clarification remains when my subwoofers are added in flatten or even warm the bass down to 10 Hz, so it is not that the 1.5s lack bass and therefore just seem clearer in a mini-monitor sort of way.
         
        The "time slows down" impression I had at the beginning remains.  It's not like the speakers are deficient in PRAT or have any such perceived rhythmical problem.  It's more like, as I listen to the music unfold, my brain doesn't have to work so hard to make sense of everything that is going on spatially or tonally and I can thus more quickly and totally hear what is going on from moment to moment in the recording--what instrument is playing which line and from spatially where.  I know this has been said in many reviews of various new audio products, but it's true for me with these:  I'm hearing new musical lines and new instruments in many familiar recordings, and that usually does not happen when I change equipment.
         
        When my M40s were new, for example, I was excited about how much more natural instruments and especially voices sounded tonally and about the revealed detail of vocal technique which most other speakers smear over.  Harbeths are still at the top of the heap that way, but these Gradients are also excellent in this respect, nipping at M40 standards in terms of natural tonality.  But the M40s don't usually produce the effects I mentioned in the above paragraph. 
         
        And as good as I think the Gradient 1.3s are in my room, these 1.5s are better yet.  As mentioned, the 1.5s move yet closer to Harbeth M40 standards in terms of natural tonality.  They also move considerably further than the already remarkable-in-this-respect 1.3s in the direction of rejecting the contribution of your listening room's second venue and allowing you to hear and appreciate what was really recorded and throwing into stark relief the differences in recording technique from one recording to another.  When the recording technique is good or better, the portrayal of the spatial aspects of the presentation are the best I've yet heard in my room--jaw-dropping, spellbinding--adjectives like that seem appropriate.  Subjective distortion is yet lower, too, across the frequency spectrum.
         
        About the 1.5 bass sans subwoofers:  Yes, the bottom octave is missing, but the speakers are quite well balanced sounding despite that.  The bass is ultra-detailed and the word "transparent" keeps coming to mind.  There is considerable punch to the dipole bass (the Orions had yet more) and loads of detail and differentiation to bass notes, even more than the Orions had.  While this description may sound lacking in gravitas, in the context of the overall frequency balance, there is no thinness.  The mids are fully fleshed out and the highs are very, very clean and un-bright while still having a very fine sense of extension.  Were it not for my steady diet of orchestral power music, I would not miss the lowest octave.
         
        I'm not sure why, but the 1.5s are more subjectively forgiving than other speakers I've been using of the high-frequency excesses of the Mercury Living Presence recordings, this despite their measured high frequency flatness and extension.  Less highs splashing off room surfaces, perhaps?  These Merc recordings also seem less distorted now.  I have to go back to my memory of the Legacy Whispers for something similar.
         
        The TacT is doing little to change the perceived tonality of the 1.5s, perhaps because their unequalized response is both measurably and subjectively flatter than other speakers I've had in this room in the same positions.  However, the TacT does, as usual, further firm up the spatial contours and further focus the sound by getting the left/right balance exactly right in both volume and time by adjusting levels and time delays.  But the TacT also allows seamlessly adding considerable bottom end weight, extension, and punch by its excellent subwoofer outputs and crossovers.
         
        Caveats:  Other than the missing lowest octave, nothing sonic so far.  From a practical standpoint, you must use the Neutrik Speakon connectors and that will restrict your speaker cable selection.  A larger issue, for some perhaps, is that, as with the Gradient 1.3s, I've found that for best sound in the near field, you must sit low, like with your ears 35" above the floor.  That's not your usual chair height.  I'm using a small Drexel chair without the seat cushion to "comfortably" get down that low.  While the 1.5s, due to their angled-up mid and tweet, project a good high frequency balance further above the floor than the 1.3s, the best spatial focus with both speakers occurs low to the ground.
         
        Unexpected pluses:  These are really small looking in your room.  They are also very cute and have very high Spouse Acceptance Factor.  My wife was amazed since, based on the on-line pictures, she thought they would just be weird alien-looking things.  A bunch of these could fit in my room for surround sound without making it look overcrowded.
         
        Bottom line so far:  A friend also got a pair from the first US shipment and is using them in a dedicated audio room whose dimensions are very similar to mine.  We've both owned or currently own Harbeth M40s, Orions, Ohms, and now these Gradients.  Other than the low bass, we agree that the 1.5s are overall the best speakers we've had in our rooms.  His spouse also likes the looks and will let them in the living room if necessary in a future home lacking a dedicated audio room.  

        >>> jramos@... 6/2/2008 1:25 PM >>>
        Hi Tom

        Good measured response from the Gradient 1.5 - how does the sound
        respond to Tact RCS?  Does the Tact still weave its usual magic? 
        From your curves, it would seem that the Fathom subs are a must in
        your room with these speakers.
        Let us know your listening impressions.

        Regards

        Jose

      • Will Hum
        Thanks very much for sharing your comments Tom. Interesting comment about time slowing down ... I used to get the same impression when I had a Naim CD5, so I
        Message 3 of 21 , Jun 2, 2008
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          Thanks very much for sharing your comments Tom.
           
          Interesting comment about "time slowing down"... I used to get the same impression when I had a Naim CD5, so I agree with you that it is not related to any rhythmical problem. (as much as I loved that aspect of my CD5, I found it harmonically lacking, so got rid of it in favor of my Benchmark)
           
          Regarding frequency response... can you tell us what the -3dB point is?  (I cannot make it out from your graphs)  Wondering if they are more or less extended than my current C7's... or, say, Quad 988's.
           
           
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 4:06 PM
          Subject: [regsaudioforum] Gradient Helsinki 1.5 Preliminary Sonic Comments

          I'm going to nickname the Gradient 1.5 "The Clarifier."  The clarification of all that is on the recording is amazing, but they do this with no excess brightness.  This clarification remains when my subwoofers are added in flatten or even warm the bass down to 10 Hz, so it is not that the 1.5s lack bass and therefore just seem clearer in a mini-monitor sort of way.
           
          The "time slows down" impression I had at the beginning remains.  It's not like the speakers are deficient in PRAT or have any such perceived rhythmical problem.  It's more like, as I listen to the music unfold, my brain doesn't have to work so hard to make sense of everything that is going on spatially or tonally and I can thus more quickly and totally hear what is going on from moment to moment in the recording--what instrument is playing which line and from spatially where.  I know this has been said in many reviews of various new audio products, but it's true for me with these:  I'm hearing new musical lines and new instruments in many familiar recordings, and that usually does not happen when I change equipment.
           
          When my M40s were new, for example, I was excited about how much more natural instruments and especially voices sounded tonally and about the revealed detail of vocal technique which most other speakers smear over.  Harbeths are still at the top of the heap that way, but these Gradients are also excellent in this respect, nipping at M40 standards in terms of natural tonality.  But the M40s don't usually produce the effects I mentioned in the above paragraph. 
           
          And as good as I think the Gradient 1.3s are in my room, these 1.5s are better yet.  As mentioned, the 1.5s move yet closer to Harbeth M40 standards in terms of natural tonality.  They also move considerably further than the already remarkable-in-this-respect 1.3s in the direction of rejecting the contribution of your listening room's second venue and allowing you to hear and appreciate what was really recorded and throwing into stark relief the differences in recording technique from one recording to another.  When the recording technique is good or better, the portrayal of the spatial aspects of the presentation are the best I've yet heard in my room--jaw-dropping, spellbinding--adjectives like that seem appropriate.  Subjective distortion is yet lower, too, across the frequency spectrum.
           
          About the 1.5 bass sans subwoofers:  Yes, the bottom octave is missing, but the speakers are quite well balanced sounding despite that.  The bass is ultra-detailed and the word "transparent" keeps coming to mind.  There is considerable punch to the dipole bass (the Orions had yet more) and loads of detail and differentiation to bass notes, even more than the Orions had.  While this description may sound lacking in gravitas, in the context of the overall frequency balance, there is no thinness.  The mids are fully fleshed out and the highs are very, very clean and un-bright while still having a very fine sense of extension.  Were it not for my steady diet of orchestral power music, I would not miss the lowest octave.
           
          I'm not sure why, but the 1.5s are more subjectively forgiving than other speakers I've been using of the high-frequency excesses of the Mercury Living Presence recordings, this despite their measured high frequency flatness and extension.  Less highs splashing off room surfaces, perhaps?  These Merc recordings also seem less distorted now.  I have to go back to my memory of the Legacy Whispers for something similar.
           
          The TacT is doing little to change the perceived tonality of the 1.5s, perhaps because their unequalized response is both measurably and subjectively flatter than other speakers I've had in this room in the same positions.  However, the TacT does, as usual, further firm up the spatial contours and further focus the sound by getting the left/right balance exactly right in both volume and time by adjusting levels and time delays.  But the TacT also allows seamlessly adding considerable bottom end weight, extension, and punch by its excellent subwoofer outputs and crossovers.
           
          Caveats:  Other than the missing lowest octave, nothing sonic so far.  From a practical standpoint, you must use the Neutrik Speakon connectors and that will restrict your speaker cable selection.  A larger issue, for some perhaps, is that, as with the Gradient 1.3s, I've found that for best sound in the near field, you must sit low, like with your ears 35" above the floor.  That's not your usual chair height.  I'm using a small Drexel chair without the seat cushion to "comfortably" get down that low.  While the 1.5s, due to their angled-up mid and tweet, project a good high frequency balance further above the floor than the 1.3s, the best spatial focus with both speakers occurs low to the ground.
           
          Unexpected pluses:  These are really small looking in your room.  They are also very cute and have very high Spouse Acceptance Factor.  My wife was amazed since, based on the on-line pictures, she thought they would just be weird alien-looking things.  A bunch of these could fit in my room for surround sound without making it look overcrowded.
           
          Bottom line so far:  A friend also got a pair from the first US shipment and is using them in a dedicated audio room whose dimensions are very similar to mine.  We've both owned or currently own Harbeth M40s, Orions, Ohms, and now these Gradients.  Other than the low bass, we agree that the 1.5s are overall the best speakers we've had in our rooms.  His spouse also likes the looks and will let them in the living room if necessary in a future home lacking a dedicated audio room.  

          >>> jramos@... 6/2/2008 1:25 PM >>>
          Hi Tom

          Good measured response from the Gradient 1.5 - how does the sound
          respond to Tact RCS?  Does the Tact still weave its usual magic? 
          From your curves, it would seem that the Fathom subs are a must in
          your room with these speakers.
          Let us know your listening impressions.

          Regards

          Jose

        • Tom Mallin
          I haven t solved the problem of making my TacT screenshots fully legible in the forum photo gallery. The best on-line view is the large view in my photo
          Message 4 of 21 , Jun 2, 2008
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            I haven't solved the problem of making my TacT screenshots fully legible in the forum photo gallery.  The best on-line view is the large view in my photo album.  The link from new photos is always the small version. 
             
            Looking at the original file, the minus 3 dB point looks to me to be around 55 Hz.  The low frequency rolloff is steepened since at this position in the room there is a deep shallow suckout centered around 35 Hz, which you can also see in the graph.


            >>> will_hum@... 6/2/2008 7:44 PM >>>
            Thanks very much for sharing your comments Tom.
             
            Interesting comment about "time slowing down"... I used to get the same impression when I had a Naim CD5, so I agree with you that it is not related to any rhythmical problem. (as much as I loved that aspect of my CD5, I found it harmonically lacking, so got rid of it in favor of my Benchmark)
             
            Regarding frequency response... can you tell us what the -3dB point is?  (I cannot make it out from your graphs)  Wondering if they are more or less extended than my current C7's... or, say, Quad 988's.
             
             
             
          • hoganbo
            A $7500 speaker that s 3 dB at 55 Hz? $4500.gets you a pair of Jazz Modules from: www.audiokinesis.com/ Efficiency 92 dB/1 watt at 1 meter and solid bass down
            Message 5 of 21 , Jun 2, 2008
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              A $7500 speaker that's 3 dB at 55 Hz?

              $4500.gets you a pair of Jazz Modules from: www.audiokinesis.com/

              Efficiency 92 dB/1 watt at 1 meter and solid bass down below 40hz.

              It's big brother the Dream Maker just got a TAS GEA.




              I haven't solved the problem of making my TacT screenshots fully
              legible in the forum photo gallery. The best on-line view is the
              large view in my photo album. The link from new photos is always the
              small version.

              Looking at the original file, the minus 3 dB point looks to me to be
              around 55 Hz. The low frequency rolloff is steepened since at this
              position in the room there is a deep shallow suckout centered around
              35 Hz, which you can also see in the graph.
            • Uli Brueggemann
              You may even get a boom boom woofer-speaker for $250 with a lower corner frequency. But I guess the target of the Gradients is not directed to win an
              Message 6 of 21 , Jun 2, 2008
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                You may even get a boom boom woofer-speaker for $250 with a lower corner frequency. But I guess the target of the Gradients is not directed to win an infrasonic award.

                Uli

                On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 8:19 AM, hoganbo <hoganbo@...> wrote:

                A $7500 speaker that's 3 dB at 55 Hz?

                $4500.gets you a pair of Jazz Modules from: www.audiokinesis.com/

                Efficiency 92 dB/1 watt at 1 meter and solid bass down below 40hz.

                It's big brother the Dream Maker just got a TAS GEA.




              • hoganbo
                I guess you re right. Awards like TAS GEAs really don t mean very much. You may even get a boom boom woofer-speaker for $250 with a lower corner frequency. But
                Message 7 of 21 , Jun 2, 2008
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                  I guess you're right.

                  Awards like TAS GEAs really don't mean very much.



                  You may even get a boom boom woofer-speaker for $250 with a lower
                  corner frequency. But I guess the target of the Gradients is not
                  directed to win an infrasonic award.

                  Uli


                  On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 8:19 AM, hoganbo <hoganbo@...> wrote:

                  A $7500 speaker that's 3 dB at 55 Hz?

                  $4500.gets you a pair of Jazz Modules from: www.audiokinesis.com/

                  Efficiency 92 dB/1 watt at 1 meter and solid bass down below 40hz.

                  It's big brother the Dream Maker just got a TAS GEA.
                • Tom Mallin
                  Comparing the minus 3 dB of the other speakers I have measured with the TacT at this position in my room, the Gradient 1.3 reached 50 Hz, the Ohm Walsh 5
                  Message 8 of 21 , Jun 3, 2008
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                    Comparing the minus 3 dB of the other speakers I have measured with the TacT at this position in my room, the Gradient 1.3 reached 50 Hz, the Ohm Walsh 5 Series 3 reached 45 Hz and the Harbeth M40 reached 40 Hz. 
                     
                    Of course, unlike the Gradient 1.5s, the Ohm and Harbeth response is quite elevated just above the ultimate roll off, the Ohms being nearly 10 dB up and the Harbeths 16 dB up, so those two speakers sound colored in my room without equalization to pull down the bass peaks.  These bass peaks also help lower their minus 3 dB points, I'm sure.  The Gradient 1.3s also have a peak, but it is not quite as large and, for whatever reason, I do not find it subjectively obnoxious, but just solid sounding. 
                     
                    The Gradient 1.5s sound very flat in the bass above their roll off point without EQ in this room.  The Orions, Legacy Whispers, Cello Strad Premieres, Carver Amazings, Sequerra Met 7 Mk II, and Siefert Maxim III all also produced bass which was measurably and subjectively acceptably flat (or better) in this room without the need for EQ.  

                    >>> uli.brueggemann@... 6/3/2008 1:29 AM >>>
                    You may even get a boom boom woofer-speaker for $250 with a lower corner frequency. But I guess the target of the Gradients is not directed to win an infrasonic award.

                    Uli

                    On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 8:19 AM, hoganbo <hoganbo@...> wrote:

                    A $7500 speaker that's 3 dB at 55 Hz?

                    $4500.gets you a pair of Jazz Modules from: www.audiokinesis.com/

                    Efficiency 92 dB/1 watt at 1 meter and solid bass down below 40hz.

                    It's big brother the Dream Maker just got a TAS GEA.




                  • retired_old_jj
                    ... the TacT at this position in my room, the Gradient 1.3 reached 50 Hz, the Ohm Walsh 5 Series 3 reached 45 Hz and the Harbeth M40 reached 40 Hz. ... Out of
                    Message 9 of 21 , Jun 3, 2008
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                      --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Mallin" <tmallin@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Comparing the minus 3 dB of the other speakers I have measured with
                      the TacT at this position in my room, the Gradient 1.3 reached 50 Hz,
                      the Ohm Walsh 5 Series 3 reached 45 Hz and the Harbeth M40 reached 40
                      Hz.
                      >

                      Out of curiousity, what kind of measurement is this? Pressure? (i.e.
                      omni microphone) Velocity (figure 8). First-order combined (any kind
                      of cardiod, including sub, super, and hyper)?

                      Measuring one of the 4 variables at a given point really doesn't
                      describe what either speakers or room are actually doing, so I am not
                      sure how to proceed with such reported measurements.

                      Bear in mind the old discussions wherein somebody did a 3D measurement
                      of pressure and dv/dx, dv/dy, and dv/dz with their Calrec, wherein it
                      was very clear that the results differ for each.
                    • Tom Mallin
                      These measurements were all taken with the LinearX M31 microphone in the set up shown in my photo gallery on this forum. See this photo and the two following
                      Message 10 of 21 , Jun 3, 2008
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                        These measurements were all taken with the LinearX M31 microphone in the set up shown in my photo gallery on this forum.  See this photo and the two following it:
                         
                         
                        The LinearX M31 is a very small diaphragm electret condenser omnidirectional microphone intended for use as a measurement device.  Description of the M31 and specifications can be accessed from here: http://www.linearx.com/products/microphones/m31/M31_1.htm
                         
                        The measurement screens shown in my photo album are screenshots from the TacT 2.2XP software.  The TacT uses the measurements from the LinearX M31 microphone to apply frequency response corrections per the user's chosen target curve. 
                         
                        A number of TacT users, including me, have found that using this microphone with the TacT software produces subjectively more satisfying results than using TacT's own supplied microphone, even though both microphones come with supplied calibration curve software (which I used in my measurements).
                         
                        I don't think I've mentioned recently that my subwoofers are set up via the TacT to handle everything below 90 Hz, so whether the main speakers roll off at 55 or 40 Hz in the position I have them makes no real difference to the low bass response I'm getting.  What DOES make a difference to my ears is constructing the target curve the way I talked about the other day so that all the TacT is doing in the bass is pulling the response down, not filling it in.  The bass response from the combination of the 1.5s and my JL Audio Fathom f113 subs is now even more impressively clean, extended, punchy, and detailed than it was before and I wasn't filling in much in the way of dips before, only about 3 to 5 dB at a few spots in the bass.
                         
                        If I wanted dipole bass to measure much more extended and smoother from the main speakers in this room, from prior experience with other dipole-bass speakers in this room (Orions, Legacy Whispers, Carver Amazing) I know what to do.  I could position things according to the Rule of Thirds.  Unfortunately, my shoebox-shaped room is not geometrically suited for that arrangement, resulting in inadequate left/right separation.  Alternatively, for even smoother measurements in this room, I know that I could turn the whole system around and put the speakers along the long wall, again following the Rule of Thirds or put the speakers ten feet apart and five feet from each short side wall and 52 inches from the wall behind them with the microphone also 52" from the wall behind it.  While those positions both extend and smooth the bass heard from speakers in this room considerably, having only 52 inches behind the speakers has not in the past worked well in terms of opening up the soundstage depth the way my current arrangement does.  

                        >>> jj@... 6/3/2008 1:26 PM >>>
                        --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Mallin" <tmallin@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Comparing the minus 3 dB of the other speakers I have measured with
                        the TacT at this position in my room, the Gradient 1.3 reached 50 Hz,
                        the Ohm Walsh 5 Series 3 reached 45 Hz and the Harbeth M40 reached 40
                        Hz. 
                        >

                        Out of curiousity, what kind of measurement is this? Pressure? (i.e.
                        omni microphone)  Velocity (figure 8). First-order combined (any kind
                        of cardiod, including sub, super, and hyper)?

                        Measuring one of the 4 variables at a given point really doesn't
                        describe what either speakers or room are actually doing, so I am not
                        sure how to proceed with such reported measurements.

                        Bear in mind the old discussions wherein somebody did a 3D measurement
                        of pressure and dv/dx, dv/dy, and dv/dz with their Calrec, wherein it
                        was very clear that the results differ for each.


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                      • Ted Rook
                        I m following this with interest Tom thanks for sharing the details and pictures with us. I wondered about the last two Tact charts in your folder, the ones
                        Message 11 of 21 , Jun 3, 2008
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                          I'm following this with interest Tom thanks for sharing the details and pictures with us. I
                          wondered about the last two Tact charts in your folder, the ones for the 1.5 w/o and with
                          subs, are they with EQ active or without? I imagine they are without EQ for if with it the result
                          would be just the "target curve" line repeated am I right?

                          I note your concern about avoiding EQ boost, I now have the Rane DEQ in use and apply cut
                          only. There is just enough cut (12dB) for my system to flatten everything within a few dB
                          except for a little dip of about 2dB centered around 200Hz for both channels. I am cutting
                          down peaks in the room response at listening position (90 degree toe in) of about 14dB at
                          70Hz both channels the same, the difference is as you can imagine a major one for the
                          better.

                          I look forward to reading more about your experiments in "the lab".

                          Ted


                          On 3 Jun 2008 at 14:17, Tom Mallin wrote:

                          >
                          > These measurements were all taken with the LinearX M31 microphone in the set up shown in my
                          > photo gallery on this forum. See this photo and the two following it:
                        • Tom Mallin
                          Ted, the frequency response screenshots in my photo album are of the response without any equalization or crossovers being applied. The one exception is a
                          Message 12 of 21 , Jun 3, 2008
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                            Ted, the frequency response screenshots in my photo album are of the response without any equalization or crossovers being applied. 
                             
                            The one exception is a screenshot I did of the TacT measuring the response with a TacT target curve correction applied to a combination of my Ohm speakers and JL subs with a flat target curve and a 90 Hz low pass and 95 Hz high pass crossover (the one I still use with the Gradients) applied.  As expected, or at least hoped for, it is pretty flat.  It is here:
                             
                             
                            The downward deviation of 6 dB for each curve at the 90 Hz crossover should sum to flat.  The downward wiggle down around 30 Hz is at the suckout frequency which shows up in all these graphs and is related to the speaker and measuring microphone placement.  I speculate that the TacT was giving up trying to completely fill in that dip.

                            >>> rooknrol@... 6/3/2008 3:13 PM >>>
                            I'm following this with interest Tom thanks for sharing the details and pictures with us. I
                            wondered about the last two Tact charts in your folder, the ones for the 1.5 w/o and with
                            subs, are they with EQ active or without? I imagine they are without EQ for if with it the result
                            would be just the "target curve" line repeated am I right?

                            I note your concern about avoiding EQ boost, I now have the Rane DEQ in use and apply cut
                            only. There is just enough cut (12dB) for my system to flatten everything within a few dB
                            except for a little dip of about 2dB centered around 200Hz for both channels. I am cutting
                            down peaks in the room response at listening position (90 degree toe in) of about 14dB at
                            70Hz both channels the same, the difference is as you can imagine a major one for the
                            better.

                            I look forward to reading more about your experiments in "the lab".

                            Ted


                            On 3 Jun 2008 at 14:17, Tom Mallin wrote:

                            >
                            > These measurements were all taken with the LinearX M31 microphone in the set up shown in my
                            > photo gallery on this forum. See this photo and the two following it:


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                          • hoganbo
                            I see the Gradient Helsinki 1.5s also got a TAS GEA. I guess REG has a pair, since a review is planned. It will be interesting to see how it measures in his
                            Message 13 of 21 , Jun 3, 2008
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                              I see the Gradient Helsinki 1.5s also got a TAS GEA. I guess REG has
                              a pair, since a review is planned. It will be interesting to see how
                              it measures in his room.

                              It's also interesting that his other GEA winner www.audiokinesis.com
                              is a Gradient dealer.


                              Comparing the minus 3 dB of the other speakers I have measured with
                              the TacT at this position in my room, the Gradient 1.3 reached 50 Hz,
                              the Ohm Walsh 5 Series 3 reached 45 Hz and the Harbeth M40 reached 40
                              Hz.

                              Of course, unlike the Gradient 1.5s, the Ohm and Harbeth response is
                              quite elevated just above the ultimate roll off, the Ohms being
                              nearly 10 dB up and the Harbeths 16 dB up, so those two speakers
                              sound colored in my room without equalization to pull down the bass
                              peaks. These bass peaks also help lower their minus 3 dB points, I'm
                              sure. The Gradient 1.3s also have a peak, but it is not quite as
                              large and, for whatever reason, I do not find it subjectively
                              obnoxious, but just solid sounding.

                              The Gradient 1.5s sound very flat in the bass above their roll off
                              point without EQ in this room. The Orions, Legacy Whispers, Cello
                              Strad Premieres, Carver Amazings, Sequerra Met 7 Mk II, and Siefert
                              Maxim III all also produced bass which was measurably and
                              subjectively acceptably flat (or better) in this room without the
                              need for EQ.

                              >>> uli.brueggemann@... 6/3/2008 1:29 AM >>>
                              You may even get a boom boom woofer-speaker for $250 with a lower
                              corner frequency. But I guess the target of the Gradients is not
                              directed to win an infrasonic award.

                              Uli


                              On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 8:19 AM, hoganbo <hoganbo@...> wrote:

                              A $7500 speaker that's 3 dB at 55 Hz?

                              $4500.gets you a pair of Jazz Modules from: www.audiokinesis.com/

                              Efficiency 92 dB/1 watt at 1 meter and solid bass down below 40hz.

                              It's big brother the Dream Maker just got a TAS GEA.
                            • Robert Greene
                              People should note that in most rooms there is nothing like 16 dB of extra bass for the M40s. Not even close. So one has to take bass performance in TMs room
                              Message 14 of 21 , Jun 3, 2008
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                                People should note that in most rooms there is nothing like 16 dB of
                                extra bass for the M40s. Not even close. So one has to take bass
                                performance in TMs room as a relative thing(some more than others),
                                not a typical absolute
                                one.

                                REG

                                --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Mallin" <tmallin@...>
                                wrote:
                                >
                                > Comparing the minus 3 dB of the other speakers I have measured
                                with the TacT at this position in my room, the Gradient 1.3 reached
                                50 Hz, the Ohm Walsh 5 Series 3 reached 45 Hz and the Harbeth M40
                                reached 40 Hz.
                                >
                                > Of course, unlike the Gradient 1.5s, the Ohm and Harbeth response
                                is quite elevated just above the ultimate roll off, the Ohms being
                                nearly 10 dB up and the Harbeths 16 dB up, so those two speakers
                                sound colored in my room without equalization to pull down the bass
                                peaks. These bass peaks also help lower their minus 3 dB points,
                                I'm sure. The Gradient 1.3s also have a peak, but it is not quite
                                as large and, for whatever reason, I do not find it subjectively
                                obnoxious, but just solid sounding.
                                >
                                > The Gradient 1.5s sound very flat in the bass above their roll off
                                point without EQ in this room. The Orions, Legacy Whispers, Cello
                                Strad Premieres, Carver Amazings, Sequerra Met 7 Mk II, and Siefert
                                Maxim III all also produced bass which was measurably and
                                subjectively acceptably flat (or better) in this room without the
                                need for EQ.
                                >
                                > >>> uli.brueggemann@... 6/3/2008 1:29 AM >>>
                                > You may even get a boom boom woofer-speaker for $250 with a lower
                                corner frequency. But I guess the target of the Gradients is not
                                directed to win an infrasonic award.
                                >
                                > Uli
                                >
                                >
                                > On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 8:19 AM, hoganbo <hoganbo@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > A $7500 speaker that's 3 dB at 55 Hz?
                                >
                                > $4500.gets you a pair of Jazz Modules from: www.audiokinesis.com/
                                >
                                > Efficiency 92 dB/1 watt at 1 meter and solid bass down below 40hz.
                                >
                                > It's big brother the Dream Maker just got a TAS GEA.
                                >
                              • Robert Greene
                                Stay tuned! Actually, Audio Kinesis and Gradient 1.5 (and Emerald Physics my third spekaer Golden Ear) share a theme: controlled directivity. REG ... has ...
                                Message 15 of 21 , Jun 3, 2008
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                                  Stay tuned!

                                  Actually, Audio Kinesis and Gradient 1.5 (and Emerald Physics my
                                  third spekaer Golden Ear) share
                                  a theme: controlled directivity.

                                  REG

                                  --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "hoganbo" <hoganbo@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > I see the Gradient Helsinki 1.5s also got a TAS GEA. I guess REG
                                  has
                                  > a pair, since a review is planned. It will be interesting to see
                                  how
                                  > it measures in his room.
                                  >
                                  > It's also interesting that his other GEA winner
                                  www.audiokinesis.com
                                  > is a Gradient dealer.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Comparing the minus 3 dB of the other speakers I have measured
                                  with
                                  > the TacT at this position in my room, the Gradient 1.3 reached 50
                                  Hz,
                                  > the Ohm Walsh 5 Series 3 reached 45 Hz and the Harbeth M40 reached
                                  40
                                  > Hz.
                                  >
                                  > Of course, unlike the Gradient 1.5s, the Ohm and Harbeth response
                                  is
                                  > quite elevated just above the ultimate roll off, the Ohms being
                                  > nearly 10 dB up and the Harbeths 16 dB up, so those two speakers
                                  > sound colored in my room without equalization to pull down the
                                  bass
                                  > peaks. These bass peaks also help lower their minus 3 dB points,
                                  I'm
                                  > sure. The Gradient 1.3s also have a peak, but it is not quite as
                                  > large and, for whatever reason, I do not find it subjectively
                                  > obnoxious, but just solid sounding.
                                  >
                                  > The Gradient 1.5s sound very flat in the bass above their roll off
                                  > point without EQ in this room. The Orions, Legacy Whispers, Cello
                                  > Strad Premieres, Carver Amazings, Sequerra Met 7 Mk II, and
                                  Siefert
                                  > Maxim III all also produced bass which was measurably and
                                  > subjectively acceptably flat (or better) in this room without the
                                  > need for EQ.
                                  >
                                  > >>> uli.brueggemann@ 6/3/2008 1:29 AM >>>
                                  > You may even get a boom boom woofer-speaker for $250 with a lower
                                  > corner frequency. But I guess the target of the Gradients is not
                                  > directed to win an infrasonic award.
                                  >
                                  > Uli
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 8:19 AM, hoganbo <hoganbo@> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > A $7500 speaker that's 3 dB at 55 Hz?
                                  >
                                  > $4500.gets you a pair of Jazz Modules from: www.audiokinesis.com/
                                  >
                                  > Efficiency 92 dB/1 watt at 1 meter and solid bass down below 40hz.
                                  >
                                  > It's big brother the Dream Maker just got a TAS GEA.
                                  >
                                • Fast Primes
                                  FYI -- Alex. Just passing this on. Jamie Howarth, Plangent Processes Topic: Removing Wow and Flutter from Analog Recordings. Jamie Howarth is a veteran of the
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Jun 3, 2008
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                                    FYI -- Alex. Just passing this on.

                                     

                                    Jamie Howarth, Plangent Processes

                                    Topic:  Removing Wow and Flutter from Analog Recordings.

                                     

                                    Jamie Howarth is a veteran of the TV and record industry, late of ABC TV and the Hit Factory. Howarth established Plangent Processes in 2001, a research and design firm specializing in solutions for the Pro Audio industry.

                                    Plangent's latest product is their soon to be released tape and mag film repro system, a current state-of-the-art ultra-wideband, low-noise, low distortion solution compatible with Plangent's Grammy Award-winning dewow system, which removes wow and flutter and intermodulation distortion from magnetic recordings.

                                     

                                    Jamie Howarth will demonstrate the efficacy of this novel and powerful technique playing familiar master recordings and displaying empirical data culled from various feature film and music recordings.

                                     

                                    His work in restoring the fragile, live 1949 recording of legendary Woodie Guthrie is featured in a article in the May 2008 Scientific American.  Before- and- after samples of the Guthrie recording can be heard at

                                     

                                    www.plangentprocesses.com



                                    It’s easy to add contacts from Facebook and other social sites through Windows Live™ Messenger. Learn How.
                                  • Will Hum
                                    Hmmm... thanks for pointing these out... those Jazz Modules look interesting. Are these direct sales only?
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Jun 3, 2008
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Hmmm... thanks for pointing these out... those Jazz Modules look
                                      interesting.

                                      Are these direct sales only?



                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >> On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 8:19 AM, hoganbo <hoganbo@> wrote:
                                      >>
                                      >> A $7500 speaker that's 3 dB at 55 Hz?
                                      >>
                                      >> $4500.gets you a pair of Jazz Modules from: www.audiokinesis.com/
                                      >>
                                      >> Efficiency 92 dB/1 watt at 1 meter and solid bass down below 40hz.
                                      >>
                                      >> It's big brother the Dream Maker just got a TAS GEA.
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >
                                    • audiokinesis
                                      ... I missed this post a while back, so sorry for the belated reply. Yup, direct sales only. Duke
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Jul 3, 2008
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                                        --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Will Hum" <will_hum@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Hmmm... thanks for pointing these out... those Jazz Modules look
                                        > interesting.
                                        >
                                        > Are these direct sales only?

                                        I missed this post a while back, so sorry for the belated reply.

                                        Yup, direct sales only.

                                        Duke
                                      • audiokinesis
                                        ... Actually, in addition to Gradient, I was also a dealer for Emerald Physics too. And back when it was made and sold here in the US, for the GedLee Summa.
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Jul 3, 2008
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          > It's also interesting that his other GEA winner www.audiokinesis.com
                                          > is a Gradient dealer.

                                          Actually, in addition to Gradient, I was also a dealer for Emerald
                                          Physics too. And back when it was made and sold here in the US, for
                                          the GedLee Summa. My speaker religion is radiation pattern control;
                                          in fact, in my opinion one of the contributors to the good sound of
                                          the big SoundLab A-1 fullrange electrostat is its well controlled 90
                                          degree pattern both front and back, which I approximate in the Dream
                                          Makers (most current SoundLabs have a narrower pattern, but it was
                                          impractical to approximate that).

                                          Note that the Harbeth Monitor 40 accomplishes much of what these
                                          waveguided designs do by careful attention to crossover point,
                                          radiation pattern, and power reponse.

                                          Duke
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