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bass and the "old" M40s versus the potential new ones

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  • regtas43
    Don t let TM and his bass peculiar room get to you!! The M40s as they stand are NOT bass heavy in any unfortunate sense. There is a small amount of extra bass
    Message 1 of 2 , Aug 1, 2007
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      Don't let TM and his bass peculiar room get to you!!
      The M40s as they stand are NOT bass heavy in any unfortunate sense.
      There is a small amount of extra bass (anechoically about 2dB) but
      this is GOOD in most cases.

      First of all, when you adjust bass electronically, it is far better
      to cut than to boost. Indeed, this is so much true that many DSP
      systems do primarily cut and little or no boost;and the Rives PARC
      does only cut. Moreover, the Allison effect creates nulls larger than
      the peaks it creates. So it is in practice advantageous to have a bit
      extra to play with.

      Almost all uncorrected speaker systems (just look at the in room
      response in Sphile) have a "boom" somewhere around 60 Hz (a room
      boom), but above that they have holes of one kind or another. The
      boom is easy to get rid of. The holes are not.

      As a result of this almost uniform lack of energy in one place or
      another in the 80-300 Hz range, most audiophiles have a real
      misunderstanding of what reproduced music ought to sound like.
      (There are speaker companies who arrange this lean behavior
      sytematically--to make their speakers "transparent" for which one
      should read lightweight, amusical, tinny, and like a toy symphony).

      These people should be ignored.

      Real music does not sound "lean". Indeed, concert halls typically
      boost the bass very considerably beyond what is heard at the close up
      position of microphones. So if one is going to make an error, it is
      more natural to have a bit too much warmth than too little.
      And again, if you want to hear exactly what is on the recording, cut
      is easy, while boost is hard.

      In short, it is a big mistake to think of the bass performance of the
      M40s as somehow in need of improvement--except in the sense that
      applies to all speakers,namely, that one is unlikely to get bass
      perfect without electronic adjustment.

      As to other possible improvements...I am sure the new ones will be
      fine, but there is nothing, really, about the old ones that needs
      fixing. If you have a chance to buy an "old" pair in good shape, I
      would jump at it. If you like the new ones better when they arrive,
      you can always switch(I think the old ones will not lose value--
      indeed more publicity for the speaker will make them go up in value
      probably).
      And if you don't prefer the new ones, you are set.
      If I did not have a pair, I would buy one right now.

      I have little doubt that the new version will be a fine speaker.
      But I KNOW ALREADY that the old version is one of those synergies
      that happen only very occasionally, where everything comes together
      just to work right.
      There is a good reason why I have kept mine for nearly ten years.

      REG
    • Ted Rook
      This says what I wanted to say but better, thank you Robert. The issue I was getting at was that room gain at low frequencies, which applies to all speakers,
      Message 2 of 2 , Aug 1, 2007
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        This says what I wanted to say but better, thank you Robert. The issue I was getting at was
        that room gain at low frequencies, which applies to all speakers, of all types, is because of
        the walls floor and ceiling and standing waves, and is not a property of the speaker. It seems
        I have implied a defect in M40s, that was not my intention, I'm a happy owner.


        On 1 Aug 2007 at 18:29, regtas43 wrote:

        >
        > Don't let TM and his bass peculiar room get to you!!
        > The M40s as they stand are NOT bass heavy in any unfortunate sense.
        > There is a small amount of extra bass (anechoically about 2dB) but
        > this is GOOD in most cases.
        >
        > First of all, when you adjust bass electronically, it is far better
        > to cut than to boost. Indeed, this is so much true that many DSP
        > systems do primarily cut and little or no boost;and the Rives PARC
        > does only cut. Moreover, the Allison effect creates nulls larger than
        > the peaks it creates. So it is in practice advantageous to have a bit
        > extra to play with.
        >
        > Almost all uncorrected speaker systems (just look at the in room
        > response in Sphile) have a "boom" somewhere around 60 Hz (a room
        > boom), but above that they have holes of one kind or another. The
        > boom is easy to get rid of. The holes are not.
        >
        > As a result of this almost uniform lack of energy in one place or
        > another in the 80-300 Hz range, most audiophiles have a real
        > misunderstanding of what reproduced music ought to sound like.
        > (There are speaker companies who arrange this lean behavior
        > sytematically--to make their speakers "transparent" for which one
        > should read lightweight, amusical, tinny, and like a toy symphony).
        >
        > These people should be ignored.
        >
        > Real music does not sound "lean". Indeed, concert halls typically
        > boost the bass very considerably beyond what is heard at the close up
        > position of microphones. So if one is going to make an error, it is
        > more natural to have a bit too much warmth than too little.
        > And again, if you want to hear exactly what is on the recording, cut
        > is easy, while boost is hard.
        >
        > In short, it is a big mistake to think of the bass performance of the
        > M40s as somehow in need of improvement--except in the sense that
        > applies to all speakers,namely, that one is unlikely to get bass
        > perfect without electronic adjustment.
        >
        > As to other possible improvements...I am sure the new ones will be
        > fine, but there is nothing, really, about the old ones that needs
        > fixing. If you have a chance to buy an "old" pair in good shape, I
        > would jump at it. If you like the new ones better when they arrive,
        > you can always switch(I think the old ones will not lose value--
        > indeed more publicity for the speaker will make them go up in value
        > probably).
        > And if you don't prefer the new ones, you are set.
        > If I did not have a pair, I would buy one right now.
        >
        > I have little doubt that the new version will be a fine speaker.
        > But I KNOW ALREADY that the old version is one of those synergies
        > that happen only very occasionally, where everything comes together
        > just to work right.
        > There is a good reason why I have kept mine for nearly ten years.
        >
        > REG
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
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