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Re: Harbeth M40s on Audiogon for Awhile Now

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  • regtas43
    Computer designed crossover--now, really, this cannot be serious as a subsitute for the careful listening needed. Everyone does computer designed crossovers
    Message 1 of 29 , Jul 31, 2007
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      Computer designed crossover--now, really, this cannot be serious as a
      subsitute for the careful listening needed. Everyone does computer
      designed crossovers nowadays, but only as a first approximation.
      The fact that some people take them as the first and only is one of
      the reasons that there are so few really good speakers around.


      REG

      --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "laurie482000"
      <laurence.barton@...> wrote:
      >
      > I think AS noted on the Harbeth forum that he had a supply of the
      old
      > M40 woofers left and was building a final batch of Mk1 M40s for the
      > BBC (no more for anyone else). Perhaps he came to some sort of
      > arrangement, whereby the BBC well known for their 'obsession' for
      > consistency (I didn't really mean that unkindly!) would have a
      > substantial stock of Mk1 M40s all to the same spec/performance and
      > that will keep them going for a few years. I felt that AS was
      > hinting that this would then free up Harbeth to develop the Mk2
      > taking advantage of all the latest developments - new improved
      > version of mid-range driver (as in the Compact 7 Mk3) - better bass
      > driver (I think he has suggested that the new in house unit co
      > developed with Derek Hughes will be better the old one) - maybe
      > computer designed x-over - refinements to the cabinet etc.
      >
      > On the question of the change in sensitivity, I wonder if this goes
      > along with some attempt to remove the alleged slight bass heavyness
      > of the M40 Mk1s (it has been said that they were designed to
      perform
      > best on tall stands) and make the Mk2 more domesticated with a
      > flatter bass sound on lower stands - just a thought.
      >
      >
      > Laurie
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Ted Rook" <rooknrol@>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > > Oh, that makes nonsense of drop-in-replacement possibilities,
      > perhaps that is not important
      > > any more, it used to be that Harbeth claimed you could exchange
      one
      > driver from a box and
      > > maintain the performance of the box, and, change one box of a
      pair
      > and maintain stereo
      > > imaging accuracy. Maybe things don't need to work that way
      anymore?
      > I think the policy I'm
      > > speaking about was centred very much on the BBC who needed to do
      > their repairs
      > > themselves using Harbeth selected drivers.
      > >
      > >
      > > On 30 Jul 2007 at 23:21, Tip Johnson wrote:
      > >
      > > > > I think it possible that the replacement woofer is sonically
      > > > > indistinguishable from the original because Harbeth may be
      > > > > restricted by the need to maintain drop-in-replacement
      > > > > compatibility with the existing installed M40 inventory.
      > > > > Something that sounded different wouldn't be an M40 would it?
      > > >
      > > > IIRC, the new M40 has a higher sensitivity than the current
      > > > version due to the new woofer. That could be worth waiting for.
      > > >
      > > > Tip
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • laurie482000
      Not a substitute for careful listening in fact the contrary - Alan Shaw has made a point of saying that the new-for-Harbeth use of computers when designing the
      Message 2 of 29 , Aug 3, 2007
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        Not a substitute for careful listening in fact the contrary - Alan
        Shaw has made a point of saying that the new-for-Harbeth use of
        computers when designing the crossover for the Compact 7 Mk3, enabled
        them to spend much more time listening and fine tuning the results
        than they could previously. I suppose he is saying that the first
        approximation stage was reached much more quickly than for the
        previous time consuming trial and error methods.

        I also remember that Harbeth were then been able to lower the
        crossover frequency on the new speaker (same tweeter as the Mk2 I
        think - different cover), presumably allowing the transition in polar
        response transition at the x-over from cone to dome to be a little
        smoother - the former presumably being slightly less directional a
        bit lower down.


        Laurie


        --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "regtas43" <regonaudio@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Computer designed crossover--now, really, this cannot be serious as
        a
        > subsitute for the careful listening needed. Everyone does computer
        > designed crossovers nowadays, but only as a first approximation.
        > The fact that some people take them as the first and only is one of
        > the reasons that there are so few really good speakers around.
        >
        >
        > REG
      • laurie482000
        ... monitor loudspeakers? No indeed! I did actually qualify my use of the word obsession , but perhaps I should have said requirement . ... sound control
        Message 3 of 29 , Aug 3, 2007
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          --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Ted Rook" <rooknrol@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Can you have too much consistency in the pair matching of stereo
          monitor loudspeakers?


          No indeed! I did actually qualify my use of the word 'obsession',
          but perhaps I should have said 'requirement'.


          > Yes the tall stands concept arises from the need to work with large
          sound control consoles,
          > in those situations I think the stand also tilts the speaker
          downwards. I'm not sure about the
          > bottom end being related to stand height. Bass response is
          optimised for treated rooms in
          > which room gain due to standing waves has been dealt with. In
          untreated rooms there may
          > be an excess of energy with all stand heights. Am I missing
          something here?


          When referring to more domesticated bass I was thinking about both
          the characteristic M40 slight bass fullness and also 'floor bounce'
          aspects.

          Referring to the Compact 7 Mk3 again, AS notes that this is designed
          to sound better on shorter stands (than the Mk2) - could this be a
          bit of Derek Hughes influence - REG has pointed out here before that
          the latter's Spendor SP1/2, is designed to alleviate flow bounce
          problems when used with the matching stands. The M40 was I think
          designed specifically for mounting high up in very sound absorptive
          BBC studios and floor bounce was probably not a consideration - most
          people would want them on much lower stands in a domestic situation,
          where it does matter.

          I make no no qualitative judgement on the full bass response of the
          M40 mk1 and should have acknowledged REG's previous observations that
          this can be a virtue when used in conjunction with digital room
          correction, but AS has himself said that it can lead to difficulties
          in some rooms. It would however be useful in my living room which
          seems to soak up bass. I've been using M30s for 8 months now and
          though they provide better bass than any previous speakers there
          (includes LS3/5a's with AB1 bass extenders, KEF 104 2s, Arcam 1s)
          they could still do with some more warmth, fullness and extension.

          I judge that although the subwoofer makes the M30s twice as good,
          they would still benefit from a bit more fullness above the sub
          operating range - baffle size issue as well as my room maybe ???. I
          also reckon that M40s on lower stands might be not much more visually
          intrusive than M30s on the higher stands that are necessary to get
          the tweeter at the right level).

          I've unfortunately never heard M40s and don't even know whether there
          are any in the UK outside the BBC - there would be little chance of
          picking them up 2nd hand here. I think I was lucky to have had an
          extended trial period for the M30s and then be able to buy them for
          the price I paid. I would very much want to be able to try before
          buying M40s, or any other speakers at that sort of cost.


          Laurie
        • regtas43
          In the end, ideal bass requires electronic adjustment. All the speaker needs to do is to be full enough, deep enough,and low in distortion enough. DSP will fix
          Message 4 of 29 , Aug 3, 2007
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            In the end, ideal bass requires electronic adjustment.
            All the speaker needs to do is to be full enough, deep enough,and low
            in distortion enough. DSP will fix the rest--as far as the bass goes.
            And without DSP you have to be wildly lucky to get it right.
            Effectively, it will never happen.

            (Not perhaps Harbeth's or the BBC viewpoint but my own).

            REG

            --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "laurie482000"
            <laurence.barton@...> wrote:
            >
            > --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "Ted Rook" <rooknrol@>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > Can you have too much consistency in the pair matching of stereo
            > monitor loudspeakers?
            >
            >
            > No indeed! I did actually qualify my use of the word 'obsession',
            > but perhaps I should have said 'requirement'.
            >
            >
            > > Yes the tall stands concept arises from the need to work with
            large
            > sound control consoles,
            > > in those situations I think the stand also tilts the speaker
            > downwards. I'm not sure about the
            > > bottom end being related to stand height. Bass response is
            > optimised for treated rooms in
            > > which room gain due to standing waves has been dealt with. In
            > untreated rooms there may
            > > be an excess of energy with all stand heights. Am I missing
            > something here?
            >
            >
            > When referring to more domesticated bass I was thinking about both
            > the characteristic M40 slight bass fullness and also 'floor bounce'
            > aspects.
            >
            > Referring to the Compact 7 Mk3 again, AS notes that this is
            designed
            > to sound better on shorter stands (than the Mk2) - could this be a
            > bit of Derek Hughes influence - REG has pointed out here before
            that
            > the latter's Spendor SP1/2, is designed to alleviate flow bounce
            > problems when used with the matching stands. The M40 was I think
            > designed specifically for mounting high up in very sound absorptive
            > BBC studios and floor bounce was probably not a consideration -
            most
            > people would want them on much lower stands in a domestic
            situation,
            > where it does matter.
            >
            > I make no no qualitative judgement on the full bass response of the
            > M40 mk1 and should have acknowledged REG's previous observations
            that
            > this can be a virtue when used in conjunction with digital room
            > correction, but AS has himself said that it can lead to
            difficulties
            > in some rooms. It would however be useful in my living room which
            > seems to soak up bass. I've been using M30s for 8 months now and
            > though they provide better bass than any previous speakers there
            > (includes LS3/5a's with AB1 bass extenders, KEF 104 2s, Arcam 1s)
            > they could still do with some more warmth, fullness and extension.
            >
            > I judge that although the subwoofer makes the M30s twice as good,
            > they would still benefit from a bit more fullness above the sub
            > operating range - baffle size issue as well as my room maybe ???.
            I
            > also reckon that M40s on lower stands might be not much more
            visually
            > intrusive than M30s on the higher stands that are necessary to get
            > the tweeter at the right level).
            >
            > I've unfortunately never heard M40s and don't even know whether
            there
            > are any in the UK outside the BBC - there would be little chance of
            > picking them up 2nd hand here. I think I was lucky to have had an
            > extended trial period for the M30s and then be able to buy them for
            > the price I paid. I would very much want to be able to try before
            > buying M40s, or any other speakers at that sort of cost.
            >
            >
            > Laurie
            >
          • laurie482000
            ... where it does matter. Back onto the topic of baffle size and adding to the bigger is better discussions that have taken place before on this and the
            Message 5 of 29 , Aug 7, 2007
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              --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "laurie482000"
              <laurence.barton@...> wrote:
              >
              > Referring to the Compact 7 Mk3 again, AS notes that this is designed
              > to sound better on shorter stands (than the Mk2) - could this be a
              > bit of Derek Hughes influence - REG has pointed out here before that
              > the latter's Spendor SP1/2, is designed to alleviate flow bounce
              > problems when used with the matching stands. The M40 was I think
              > designed specifically for mounting high up in very sound absorptive
              > BBC studios and floor bounce was probably not a consideration - most
              > people would want them on much lower stands in a domestic situation,
              where it does matter.


              Back onto the topic of baffle size and adding to the bigger is better
              discussions that have taken place before on this and the Spendor sites,
              it occured to me, that as well as the (much noted) effect of reducing
              early wall reflections and the consequential comb filtering, floor
              bounce (and ceiling ditto) should also be less of a problem for big
              speakers such as the M40s. The sound will of course be more
              directional vertically as well as horizontally at lower mid/upper bass
              frequencies (more so generally with speakers taller than they are wide)
              and thus reflections from the floor ceiling will be weaker. I can't
              remember whether the point has been made here before, if so apologies
              for the repetition - or maybe it's not true - I suppose it could be the
              case that the angles involved might be too shallow, even for large
              baffles to alleviate comb filtering in the vertical plane.

              Staying with the baffle size issue, I've thought of experimenting with
              a stack of books or HiFi magazines on coffee tables (music scores might
              create a more studious impression), abutting the sides of the M30s / or
              even the LS3/5As in order to narrow the lower mid directivity in the
              horizontal plane and see what the effect is on the sound. Has this
              been tried or suggested before, or maybe it wouldn't work - that's if
              it would be important to have a sound proof seal between books and
              speaker side.


              Laurie
            • David Fagan
              Laurie, Any significant changes in the baffle size will also require changes to the crossover to compensate for the changes in driver response(s). So unless
              Message 6 of 29 , Aug 7, 2007
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                Laurie,

                Any significant changes in the baffle size will also require changes to the
                crossover to compensate for the changes in driver response(s).

                So unless you are prepared to re-tweak the crossovers in your speakers (or
                you are using some form of DRC) I would not recommend tinkering with M30s or
                LS3/5As. Some interesting info here:
                http://www.t-linespeakers.org/tech/bafflestep/index.html

                ...but if you wanted to optimise the benefit of extending baffle size you
                might like to consider a non-rectangular, non-symmetric baffle extension.
                Have a look at the baffles that Alfred built to extend the baffle size of
                his Mangers (http://members.chello.at/nordbahnfredi/). As Alfred uses
                Acourate as DRC and crossover realignment was not a problem. More info
                here: http://sound.westhost.com/bafflestep.htm

                Dave.

                P.S. The raised edging around the LS3/5A baffle will cause other problems
                if you try and extend the baffle size.




                -----Original Message-----
                From: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com]
                On Behalf Of laurie482000
                Sent: 07 August 2007 12:31
                To: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [regsaudioforum] Re: Harbeth M40s on Audiogon for Awhile Now


                --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "laurie482000"
                <laurence.barton@...> wrote:
                >

                Back onto the topic of baffle size and adding to the bigger is better
                discussions that have taken place before on this and the Spendor sites,
                it occured to me, that as well as the (much noted) effect of reducing
                early wall reflections and the consequential comb filtering, floor
                bounce (and ceiling ditto) should also be less of a problem for big
                speakers such as the M40s. The sound will of course be more
                directional vertically as well as horizontally at lower mid/upper bass
                frequencies (more so generally with speakers taller than they are wide)
                and thus reflections from the floor ceiling will be weaker. I can't
                remember whether the point has been made here before, if so apologies
                for the repetition - or maybe it's not true - I suppose it could be the
                case that the angles involved might be too shallow, even for large
                baffles to alleviate comb filtering in the vertical plane.

                Staying with the baffle size issue, I've thought of experimenting with
                a stack of books or HiFi magazines on coffee tables (music scores might
                create a more studious impression), abutting the sides of the M30s / or
                even the LS3/5As in order to narrow the lower mid directivity in the
                horizontal plane and see what the effect is on the sound. Has this
                been tried or suggested before, or maybe it wouldn't work - that's if
                it would be important to have a sound proof seal between books and
                speaker side.


                Laurie
              • regtas43
                It is not easy to adjust the directional character of a speaker without altering its on axis response!! If you stick an LS3/5a in the middle of a big baffle,
                Message 7 of 29 , Aug 7, 2007
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                  It is not easy to adjust the directional character of a speaker
                  without altering its on axis response!!
                  If you stick an LS3/5a in the middle of a big baffle, it will sound
                  quite different--but you may not like it!!
                  This is a BIG effect. A speaker's response on axis as well as off
                  depends on the baffle loading!!

                  REG

                  --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "laurie482000"
                  <laurence.barton@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "laurie482000"
                  > <laurence.barton@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Referring to the Compact 7 Mk3 again, AS notes that this is
                  designed
                  > > to sound better on shorter stands (than the Mk2) - could this be
                  a
                  > > bit of Derek Hughes influence - REG has pointed out here before
                  that
                  > > the latter's Spendor SP1/2, is designed to alleviate flow bounce
                  > > problems when used with the matching stands. The M40 was I think
                  > > designed specifically for mounting high up in very sound
                  absorptive
                  > > BBC studios and floor bounce was probably not a consideration -
                  most
                  > > people would want them on much lower stands in a domestic
                  situation,
                  > where it does matter.
                  >
                  >
                  > Back onto the topic of baffle size and adding to the bigger is
                  better
                  > discussions that have taken place before on this and the Spendor
                  sites,
                  > it occured to me, that as well as the (much noted) effect of
                  reducing
                  > early wall reflections and the consequential comb filtering, floor
                  > bounce (and ceiling ditto) should also be less of a problem for big
                  > speakers such as the M40s. The sound will of course be more
                  > directional vertically as well as horizontally at lower mid/upper
                  bass
                  > frequencies (more so generally with speakers taller than they are
                  wide)
                  > and thus reflections from the floor ceiling will be weaker. I
                  can't
                  > remember whether the point has been made here before, if so
                  apologies
                  > for the repetition - or maybe it's not true - I suppose it could be
                  the
                  > case that the angles involved might be too shallow, even for large
                  > baffles to alleviate comb filtering in the vertical plane.
                  >
                  > Staying with the baffle size issue, I've thought of experimenting
                  with
                  > a stack of books or HiFi magazines on coffee tables (music scores
                  might
                  > create a more studious impression), abutting the sides of the
                  M30s / or
                  > even the LS3/5As in order to narrow the lower mid directivity in
                  the
                  > horizontal plane and see what the effect is on the sound. Has this
                  > been tried or suggested before, or maybe it wouldn't work - that's
                  if
                  > it would be important to have a sound proof seal between books and
                  > speaker side.
                  >
                  >
                  > Laurie
                  >
                • Promac Machining
                  The M40 ad on Audiogon disappeared several days ago. Anyone know who bought them? ... ___________________________________________ Frank Smillie
                  Message 8 of 29 , Aug 7, 2007
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                    The M40 ad on Audiogon disappeared several days ago.
                    Anyone know who bought them?

                    --- regtas43 <regonaudio@...> wrote:

                    > It is not easy to adjust the directional character
                    > of a speaker
                    > without altering its on axis response!!
                    > If you stick an LS3/5a in the middle of a big
                    > baffle, it will sound
                    > quite different--but you may not like it!!
                    > This is a BIG effect. A speaker's response on axis
                    > as well as off
                    > depends on the baffle loading!!
                    >
                    > REG
                    >
                    > --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com,
                    > "laurie482000"
                    > <laurence.barton@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com,
                    > "laurie482000"
                    > > <laurence.barton@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Referring to the Compact 7 Mk3 again, AS notes
                    > that this is
                    > designed
                    > > > to sound better on shorter stands (than the Mk2)
                    > - could this be
                    > a
                    > > > bit of Derek Hughes influence - REG has pointed
                    > out here before
                    > that
                    > > > the latter's Spendor SP1/2, is designed to
                    > alleviate flow bounce
                    > > > problems when used with the matching stands.
                    > The M40 was I think
                    > > > designed specifically for mounting high up in
                    > very sound
                    > absorptive
                    > > > BBC studios and floor bounce was probably not a
                    > consideration -
                    > most
                    > > > people would want them on much lower stands in a
                    > domestic
                    > situation,
                    > > where it does matter.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Back onto the topic of baffle size and adding to
                    > the bigger is
                    > better
                    > > discussions that have taken place before on this
                    > and the Spendor
                    > sites,
                    > > it occured to me, that as well as the (much noted)
                    > effect of
                    > reducing
                    > > early wall reflections and the consequential comb
                    > filtering, floor
                    > > bounce (and ceiling ditto) should also be less of
                    > a problem for big
                    > > speakers such as the M40s. The sound will of
                    > course be more
                    > > directional vertically as well as horizontally at
                    > lower mid/upper
                    > bass
                    > > frequencies (more so generally with speakers
                    > taller than they are
                    > wide)
                    > > and thus reflections from the floor ceiling will
                    > be weaker. I
                    > can't
                    > > remember whether the point has been made here
                    > before, if so
                    > apologies
                    > > for the repetition - or maybe it's not true - I
                    > suppose it could be
                    > the
                    > > case that the angles involved might be too
                    > shallow, even for large
                    > > baffles to alleviate comb filtering in the
                    > vertical plane.
                    > >
                    > > Staying with the baffle size issue, I've thought
                    > of experimenting
                    > with
                    > > a stack of books or HiFi magazines on coffee
                    > tables (music scores
                    > might
                    > > create a more studious impression), abutting the
                    > sides of the
                    > M30s / or
                    > > even the LS3/5As in order to narrow the lower mid
                    > directivity in
                    > the
                    > > horizontal plane and see what the effect is on the
                    > sound. Has this
                    > > been tried or suggested before, or maybe it
                    > wouldn't work - that's
                    > if
                    > > it would be important to have a sound proof seal
                    > between books and
                    > > speaker side.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Laurie
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >


                    ___________________________________________
                    Frank Smillie 408-727-2610 Voice
                    Promac Machining 408-748-1050 Fax
                    300 Brokaw Road
                    Santa Clara, CA 95050
                    USA
                  • regtas43
                    PS This thing I wrote below is unclearly phrased.Sorry. Another try: If you rebaffle, the response WILL shift, almost without exception. When designers design,
                    Message 9 of 29 , Aug 7, 2007
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                      PS This thing I wrote below is unclearly phrased.Sorry. Another try:
                      If you rebaffle, the response WILL shift, almost without exception.
                      When designers design, the response is adjusted with the baffle
                      included!!
                      If you change the baffle, you change the speaker.
                      Incidentally, a tight fit is irrelevant for lower frequencies, but
                      one needs to be careful if you are experimenting about introducing
                      diffraction-producing edges.

                      REG

                      --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "regtas43" <regonaudio@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > It is not easy to adjust the directional character of a speaker
                      > without altering its on axis response!!
                      > If you stick an LS3/5a in the middle of a big baffle, it will sound
                      > quite different--but you may not like it!!
                      > This is a BIG effect. A speaker's response on axis as well as off
                      > depends on the baffle loading!!
                      >
                      > REG
                      >
                      > --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "laurie482000"
                      > <laurence.barton@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "laurie482000"
                      > > <laurence.barton@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Referring to the Compact 7 Mk3 again, AS notes that this is
                      > designed
                      > > > to sound better on shorter stands (than the Mk2) - could this
                      be
                      > a
                      > > > bit of Derek Hughes influence - REG has pointed out here before
                      > that
                      > > > the latter's Spendor SP1/2, is designed to alleviate flow
                      bounce
                      > > > problems when used with the matching stands. The M40 was I
                      think
                      > > > designed specifically for mounting high up in very sound
                      > absorptive
                      > > > BBC studios and floor bounce was probably not a consideration -
                      > most
                      > > > people would want them on much lower stands in a domestic
                      > situation,
                      > > where it does matter.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Back onto the topic of baffle size and adding to the bigger is
                      > better
                      > > discussions that have taken place before on this and the Spendor
                      > sites,
                      > > it occured to me, that as well as the (much noted) effect of
                      > reducing
                      > > early wall reflections and the consequential comb filtering,
                      floor
                      > > bounce (and ceiling ditto) should also be less of a problem for
                      big
                      > > speakers such as the M40s. The sound will of course be more
                      > > directional vertically as well as horizontally at lower mid/upper
                      > bass
                      > > frequencies (more so generally with speakers taller than they are
                      > wide)
                      > > and thus reflections from the floor ceiling will be weaker. I
                      > can't
                      > > remember whether the point has been made here before, if so
                      > apologies
                      > > for the repetition - or maybe it's not true - I suppose it could
                      be
                      > the
                      > > case that the angles involved might be too shallow, even for
                      large
                      > > baffles to alleviate comb filtering in the vertical plane.
                      > >
                      > > Staying with the baffle size issue, I've thought of experimenting
                      > with
                      > > a stack of books or HiFi magazines on coffee tables (music scores
                      > might
                      > > create a more studious impression), abutting the sides of the
                      > M30s / or
                      > > even the LS3/5As in order to narrow the lower mid directivity in
                      > the
                      > > horizontal plane and see what the effect is on the sound. Has
                      this
                      > > been tried or suggested before, or maybe it wouldn't work -
                      that's
                      > if
                      > > it would be important to have a sound proof seal between books
                      and
                      > > speaker side.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Laurie
                      > >
                      >
                    • laurie482000
                      Dave The widening the baffle idea was just a passing thought and I m being persuaded that it would be better to spend my time on other things at the moment,
                      Message 10 of 29 , Aug 8, 2007
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                        Dave


                        The widening the baffle idea was just a passing thought and I'm being
                        persuaded that it would be better to spend my time on other things at
                        the moment, but I'll look at those links. Someone's using my
                        Behringer equaliser at the moment, but when I get it back or maybe
                        buy 'Acourate' next year, I might play around a little.


                        Laurie


                        --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "David Fagan"
                        <david.fagan@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Laurie,
                        >
                        > Any significant changes in the baffle size will also require
                        changes to the
                        > crossover to compensate for the changes in driver response(s).
                        >
                        > So unless you are prepared to re-tweak the crossovers in your
                        speakers (or
                        > you are using some form of DRC) I would not recommend tinkering
                        with M30s or
                        > LS3/5As. Some interesting info here:
                        > http://www.t-linespeakers.org/tech/bafflestep/index.html
                        >
                        > ...but if you wanted to optimise the benefit of extending baffle
                        size you
                        > might like to consider a non-rectangular, non-symmetric baffle
                        extension.
                        > Have a look at the baffles that Alfred built to extend the baffle
                        size of
                        > his Mangers (http://members.chello.at/nordbahnfredi/). As Alfred
                        uses
                        > Acourate as DRC and crossover realignment was not a problem. More
                        info
                        > here: http://sound.westhost.com/bafflestep.htm
                        >
                        > Dave.
                        >
                        > P.S. The raised edging around the LS3/5A baffle will cause other
                        problems
                        > if you try and extend the baffle size.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
                        [mailto:regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com]
                        > On Behalf Of laurie482000
                        > Sent: 07 August 2007 12:31
                        > To: regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: [regsaudioforum] Re: Harbeth M40s on Audiogon for Awhile
                        Now
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, "laurie482000"
                        > <laurence.barton@> wrote:
                        > >
                        >
                        > Back onto the topic of baffle size and adding to the bigger is
                        better
                        > discussions that have taken place before on this and the Spendor
                        sites,
                        > it occured to me, that as well as the (much noted) effect of
                        reducing
                        > early wall reflections and the consequential comb filtering, floor
                        > bounce (and ceiling ditto) should also be less of a problem for big
                        > speakers such as the M40s. The sound will of course be more
                        > directional vertically as well as horizontally at lower mid/upper
                        bass
                        > frequencies (more so generally with speakers taller than they are
                        wide)
                        > and thus reflections from the floor ceiling will be weaker. I
                        can't
                        > remember whether the point has been made here before, if so
                        apologies
                        > for the repetition - or maybe it's not true - I suppose it could be
                        the
                        > case that the angles involved might be too shallow, even for large
                        > baffles to alleviate comb filtering in the vertical plane.
                        >
                        > Staying with the baffle size issue, I've thought of experimenting
                        with
                        > a stack of books or HiFi magazines on coffee tables (music scores
                        might
                        > create a more studious impression), abutting the sides of the
                        M30s / or
                        > even the LS3/5As in order to narrow the lower mid directivity in
                        the
                        > horizontal plane and see what the effect is on the sound. Has this
                        > been tried or suggested before, or maybe it wouldn't work - that's
                        if
                        > it would be important to have a sound proof seal between books and
                        > speaker side.
                        >
                        >
                        > Laurie
                        >
                      • Uli Brueggemann
                        At http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/regsaudioforum/photos/view/65ec?b=2&m=f&o=0 you can see results of a driver linearization. The midrange driver also shows a
                        Message 11 of 29 , Aug 8, 2007
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                          At
                          http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/regsaudioforum/photos/view/65ec?b=2&m=f&o=0
                          you can see results of a driver linearization. The midrange driver also shows a baffle step in uncorrected mode.
                          The driver is a B&W FST kevlar driver, the width of the baffle is 230 mm.

                          Uli

                          On 8/8/07, laurie482000 < laurence.barton@...> wrote:

                          Dave

                          The widening the baffle idea was just a passing thought and I'm being
                          persuaded that it would be better to spend my time on other things at
                          the moment, but I'll look at those links. Someone's using my
                          Behringer equaliser at the moment, but when I get it back or maybe
                          buy 'Acourate' next year, I might play around a little.

                          Laurie


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