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Re: [regsaudioforum] Re: Stereophile interviews Ivan Fischer on multichannel recordings

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  • Goran Finnberg
    ... http://www.bigben.se/bigphono/index.html I´ve done 12 of these. -- Best, Goran Finnberg The Mastering Room AB Goteborg Sweden E-mail: mastering@telia.com
    Message 1 of 11 , Apr 1, 2007
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      Edward Wu:

      > I looked up the Mozart concerto cite but it
      > appears to be out of print.

      http://www.bigben.se/bigphono/index.html

      I´ve done 12 of these.


      --
      Best,

      Goran Finnberg
      The Mastering Room AB
      Goteborg
      Sweden

      E-mail: mastering@...

      Learn from the mistakes of others, you can never live long enough to
      make them all yourself. - John Luther
    • Goran Finnberg
      ... This is like a constantly moving target. Any claim of where the microphones was put in relation to the orchestra just have no relation whatsoever how
      Message 2 of 11 , Apr 1, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        Ed Wu:

        > I thought the quoted section from the Stereophile interview might be
        > enough to warn some members of this forum (such as its host) away
        > from Fischer recordings. It's too bad; I like the performances I've
        > heard on Philips.

        This is like a constantly moving target.

        Any claim of where the microphones was put in relation to the orchestra
        just have no relation whatsoever how things will sound in the end.

        If it is dry and hot in the hall one day and during the night it starts
        to rain and the temperature drops 10 degrees then things sounds
        drastically different compared to yesterday and you have done nothing at
        all to the equipment nor the position of the mics.

        In Abbey Road, England, they have a room big enough to fit a full
        symphony orchestra and the preference is around 15°C and about 80 %
        humidity.

        Hot air rises and creates turbulence that sounds as if the focus or
        clarity is out in the sound so you start adding mics to compensate.

        In the winter when things get very dry with low levels of humidity
        strings start to sound hard and harsh. This can be offset somehow by
        putting wet sponges down the F-hole to try to increase the humidity in
        the instrument.

        You would be surprised to see a bunch of string player in line to the
        toilet with sponges in their hands preparing for a recording session....

        > In a thread a while back there was a request for recordings that you
        > consider to be a model, especially any you've helped to engineer or
        > master.

        I consider this to be useless.

        I am a hired hand to carry out the wishes of others.

        Example:

        A/R executive producer for one of the biggest record company in the
        world.

        He uses a small micro stereo, JVC, in his office to listen to disks
        coming out of mastering before the pressing starts.

        The speakers uses a 3" bass unit and a 1" treble unit. and everything is
        sitting on a small flimsy table in one corner of a totally bare room 3 x
        4 meters.

        Producer: This sounds awful. It distorts on every bass note. A really
        bad mastering.

        Me: Huh??

        Producer: Yes! Listen!

        Me: Listening intently...it sounds very distorted indeed..I look
        intently on the JVC amp but cannot found any controls....ahhhh...it is
        controlled by a remote.....hmmmm......maximum bass and treble
        activated......loudness activated.....hmmmm......3" bass
        speaker.......excursion limit of the small bass driver immediately
        exceeded....it will hit the end stops at once giving a crackling sound
        on each half wave.....also it screchhees abit due to the producers
        insistance of having max treble...hmmm gotta explain to the producer.

        I carefully tell the producer that in my opinon a mastered disk is to be
        played with flat treble and bass and no loudness. Producer listens with
        glazed eyes. I tell him that +20 dB increase in the bass means that the
        small bass driver will produce copious amounts of distortion as it
        cannot handle all the low frequency energy and I point to the visble
        diaphragm that visibly moves a lot in the box as it tries to follows the
        heavily distorted and clipping 2X10W JVC micro amplifier.

        I remove the bass and treble lift to get it flat and disengages the
        loudness. I then increase the sound level and everything sounds very
        good indeed.

        I look at the producer. He agrees that:

        "Strange now it sounds very gooood indeed!!"

        The gears in his head is turning:

        Producer: "But what if I wish to have max bass and treble and loudness
        pushed??? And what if somebody else like it that way??? Then it will
        sound very bad!!!! YOU MUST DO SOMETHING!!!!!! He looks very scared.

        I try to argue 30 seconds but I realize the producer is not listening no
        more because he cannot follow my argument nor understand it.

        I redo the CD Master by cutting off everything below 80 Hz at 24
        dB/octave. I add + 1.5 dB at 100 Hz and I dip the 5 kHz region - 1 dB,
        Q1.

        Upon listening again on his micro JVC stereo the Executive A/R producer
        now looks very happy.

        "You´re the best!!!!" He tells me patting me on the back while grinning
        greatly!!

        You just cannot win.

        Please do remember that recordings are done to be played on cheap
        stereos and sound reasonable on them.

        Producer Andy Black "Music For Nations" London, England which do not
        excist no more as a record company.

        I had a terrible row with him 15 years ago:

        Me: I do believe that recordings are to be mastered in such a way that
        they will sound excellent on a correctly set up monitor system in an
        achoustically regulated room.

        Andy Black: We play every new CD master on the cheapest shittiest stereo
        in the office ...if it doesn´t sound good on that you have to redo your
        job that´s why we pay you!! And if you don´t do as I tell you you will
        not get paid and we will go to someone else who will fix this for us the
        way we wish it to sound!!!!

        Now what arguments can I put forth that will make me do the very best
        job I can do???????

        99.9 percent of reproducing equipment just cannot do justice to what is
        possible to do.

        The market has never ever been driven by sound quality since that isn´t
        gonna make a disc sell at all.

        The buying people buys disks because of the artists and screw the sound.

        So it is the common lowest denominator that sets the quality in most
        cases.

        And I have zero say in most cases. The sound is decided by the Producer,
        The Band, whatever person in charge.

        BTW, if it is the real thing I wish to hear I go to any nearby concert
        hall to hear a real orchestra.

        Normal disks I buy for pleasure I play on a small cheap stereo at home.
        Why pay for something accurate when that will only painfully expose the
        shortcomings of the recordings.

        --
        Best,

        Goran Finnberg
        The Mastering Room AB
        Goteborg
        Sweden

        E-mail: mastering@...

        Learn from the mistakes of others, you can never live long enough to
        make them all yourself. - John Luther
      • regtas43
        I really appreciate the message that follows. I think a certain exposure to the reality of commercial recordings is really a good thing. I urge everyone to
        Message 3 of 11 , Apr 1, 2007
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          I really appreciate the message that follows. I think a certain
          exposure to the reality of commercial recordings is really a good
          thing.

          I urge everyone to read this carefully!!


          REG

          --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, Goran Finnberg <mastering@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Ed Wu:
          >
          > > I thought the quoted section from the Stereophile interview might
          be
          > > enough to warn some members of this forum (such as its host) away
          > > from Fischer recordings. It's too bad; I like the performances
          I've
          > > heard on Philips.
          >
          > This is like a constantly moving target.
          >
          > Any claim of where the microphones was put in relation to the
          orchestra
          > just have no relation whatsoever how things will sound in the end.
          >
          > If it is dry and hot in the hall one day and during the night it
          starts
          > to rain and the temperature drops 10 degrees then things sounds
          > drastically different compared to yesterday and you have done
          nothing at
          > all to the equipment nor the position of the mics.
          >
          > In Abbey Road, England, they have a room big enough to fit a full
          > symphony orchestra and the preference is around 15°C and about 80 %
          > humidity.
          >
          > Hot air rises and creates turbulence that sounds as if the focus or
          > clarity is out in the sound so you start adding mics to compensate.
          >
          > In the winter when things get very dry with low levels of humidity
          > strings start to sound hard and harsh. This can be offset somehow by
          > putting wet sponges down the F-hole to try to increase the humidity
          in
          > the instrument.
          >
          > You would be surprised to see a bunch of string player in line to
          the
          > toilet with sponges in their hands preparing for a recording
          session....
          >
          > > In a thread a while back there was a request for recordings that
          you
          > > consider to be a model, especially any you've helped to engineer
          or
          > > master.
          >
          > I consider this to be useless.
          >
          > I am a hired hand to carry out the wishes of others.
          >
          > Example:
          >
          > A/R executive producer for one of the biggest record company in the
          > world.
          >
          > He uses a small micro stereo, JVC, in his office to listen to disks
          > coming out of mastering before the pressing starts.
          >
          > The speakers uses a 3" bass unit and a 1" treble unit. and
          everything is
          > sitting on a small flimsy table in one corner of a totally bare
          room 3 x
          > 4 meters.
          >
          > Producer: This sounds awful. It distorts on every bass note. A
          really
          > bad mastering.
          >
          > Me: Huh??
          >
          > Producer: Yes! Listen!
          >
          > Me: Listening intently...it sounds very distorted indeed..I look
          > intently on the JVC amp but cannot found any controls....ahhhh...it
          is
          > controlled by a remote.....hmmmm......maximum bass and treble
          > activated......loudness activated.....hmmmm......3" bass
          > speaker.......excursion limit of the small bass driver immediately
          > exceeded....it will hit the end stops at once giving a crackling
          sound
          > on each half wave.....also it screchhees abit due to the producers
          > insistance of having max treble...hmmm gotta explain to the
          producer.
          >
          > I carefully tell the producer that in my opinon a mastered disk is
          to be
          > played with flat treble and bass and no loudness. Producer listens
          with
          > glazed eyes. I tell him that +20 dB increase in the bass means that
          the
          > small bass driver will produce copious amounts of distortion as it
          > cannot handle all the low frequency energy and I point to the visble
          > diaphragm that visibly moves a lot in the box as it tries to
          follows the
          > heavily distorted and clipping 2X10W JVC micro amplifier.
          >
          > I remove the bass and treble lift to get it flat and disengages the
          > loudness. I then increase the sound level and everything sounds very
          > good indeed.
          >
          > I look at the producer. He agrees that:
          >
          > "Strange now it sounds very gooood indeed!!"
          >
          > The gears in his head is turning:
          >
          > Producer: "But what if I wish to have max bass and treble and
          loudness
          > pushed??? And what if somebody else like it that way??? Then it will
          > sound very bad!!!! YOU MUST DO SOMETHING!!!!!! He looks very scared.
          >
          > I try to argue 30 seconds but I realize the producer is not
          listening no
          > more because he cannot follow my argument nor understand it.
          >
          > I redo the CD Master by cutting off everything below 80 Hz at 24
          > dB/octave. I add + 1.5 dB at 100 Hz and I dip the 5 kHz region - 1
          dB,
          > Q1.
          >
          > Upon listening again on his micro JVC stereo the Executive A/R
          producer
          > now looks very happy.
          >
          > "You´re the best!!!!" He tells me patting me on the back while
          grinning
          > greatly!!
          >
          > You just cannot win.
          >
          > Please do remember that recordings are done to be played on cheap
          > stereos and sound reasonable on them.
          >
          > Producer Andy Black "Music For Nations" London, England which do not
          > excist no more as a record company.
          >
          > I had a terrible row with him 15 years ago:
          >
          > Me: I do believe that recordings are to be mastered in such a way
          that
          > they will sound excellent on a correctly set up monitor system in an
          > achoustically regulated room.
          >
          > Andy Black: We play every new CD master on the cheapest shittiest
          stereo
          > in the office ...if it doesn´t sound good on that you have to redo
          your
          > job that´s why we pay you!! And if you don´t do as I tell you you
          will
          > not get paid and we will go to someone else who will fix this for
          us the
          > way we wish it to sound!!!!
          >
          > Now what arguments can I put forth that will make me do the very
          best
          > job I can do???????
          >
          > 99.9 percent of reproducing equipment just cannot do justice to
          what is
          > possible to do.
          >
          > The market has never ever been driven by sound quality since that
          isn´t
          > gonna make a disc sell at all.
          >
          > The buying people buys disks because of the artists and screw the
          sound.
          >
          > So it is the common lowest denominator that sets the quality in most
          > cases.
          >
          > And I have zero say in most cases. The sound is decided by the
          Producer,
          > The Band, whatever person in charge.
          >
          > BTW, if it is the real thing I wish to hear I go to any nearby
          concert
          > hall to hear a real orchestra.
          >
          > Normal disks I buy for pleasure I play on a small cheap stereo at
          home.
          > Why pay for something accurate when that will only painfully expose
          the
          > shortcomings of the recordings.
          >
          > --
          > Best,
          >
          > Goran Finnberg
          > The Mastering Room AB
          > Goteborg
          > Sweden
          >
          > E-mail: mastering@...
          >
          > Learn from the mistakes of others, you can never live long enough to
          > make them all yourself. - John Luther
          >
        • amadeuswus
          Goran, Thanks for this link. After the horror story you told in another post, I am not sure I would go to the trouble of ordering these from abroad just to
          Message 4 of 11 , Apr 1, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            Goran,

            Thanks for this link. After the horror story you told in another
            post, I am not sure I would go to the trouble of ordering these from
            abroad just to hear a producer's idea of commercially acceptable
            sound.

            I just played in a choral/orchestral recording session for Naxos.
            The producer (Adam Abeshouse) was also the engineer. He said he had
            done over 500 sessions for the label! Although his technique was
            not purist, at least he called his own shots.

            Edward


            --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, Goran Finnberg
            <mastering@...> wrote:
            >
            > Edward Wu:
            >
            > > I looked up the Mozart concerto cite but it
            > > appears to be out of print.
            >
            > http://www.bigben.se/bigphono/index.html
            >
            > I´ve done 12 of these.
            >
            >
            > --
            > Best,
            >
            > Goran Finnberg
            > The Mastering Room AB
            > Goteborg
            > Sweden
            >
            > E-mail: mastering@...
            >
            > Learn from the mistakes of others, you can never live long enough
            to
            > make them all yourself. - John Luther
            >
          • Fred
            Heh! Good reading. You describe the classic Curse of the Consultant ! ... Fred. P.S. Probably inappropriate for delicate musical instruments but slices of
            Message 5 of 11 , Apr 2, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              Heh! Good reading.

              You describe the classic "Curse of the Consultant"!

              :-)

              Fred.

              P.S.
              Probably inappropriate for delicate musical
              instruments but slices of potato should humidify more
              gradually than sponges.



              --- Goran Finnberg <mastering@...> wrote:

              > Ed Wu:
              >
              > > I thought the quoted section from the Stereophile
              > interview might be
              > > enough to warn some members of this forum (such as
              > its host) away
              > > from Fischer recordings. It's too bad; I like
              > the performances I've
              > > heard on Philips.
              >
              > This is like a constantly moving target.
              >
              > Any claim of where the microphones was put in
              > relation to the orchestra
              > just have no relation whatsoever how things will
              > sound in the end.
              >
              > If it is dry and hot in the hall one day and during
              > the night it starts
              > to rain and the temperature drops 10 degrees then
              > things sounds
              > drastically different compared to yesterday and you
              > have done nothing at
              > all to the equipment nor the position of the mics.
              >
              > In Abbey Road, England, they have a room big enough
              > to fit a full
              > symphony orchestra and the preference is around 15°C
              > and about 80 %
              > humidity.
              >
              > Hot air rises and creates turbulence that sounds as
              > if the focus or
              > clarity is out in the sound so you start adding mics
              > to compensate.
              >
              > In the winter when things get very dry with low
              > levels of humidity
              > strings start to sound hard and harsh. This can be
              > offset somehow by
              > putting wet sponges down the F-hole to try to
              > increase the humidity in
              > the instrument.
              >
              > You would be surprised to see a bunch of string
              > player in line to the
              > toilet with sponges in their hands preparing for a
              > recording session....
              >
              > > In a thread a while back there was a request for
              > recordings that you
              > > consider to be a model, especially any you've
              > helped to engineer or
              > > master.
              >
              > I consider this to be useless.
              >
              > I am a hired hand to carry out the wishes of others.
              >
              > Example:
              >
              > A/R executive producer for one of the biggest record
              > company in the
              > world.
              >
              > He uses a small micro stereo, JVC, in his office to
              > listen to disks
              > coming out of mastering before the pressing starts.
              >
              > The speakers uses a 3" bass unit and a 1" treble
              > unit. and everything is
              > sitting on a small flimsy table in one corner of a
              > totally bare room 3 x
              > 4 meters.
              >
              > Producer: This sounds awful. It distorts on every
              > bass note. A really
              > bad mastering.
              >
              > Me: Huh??
              >
              > Producer: Yes! Listen!
              >
              > Me: Listening intently...it sounds very distorted
              > indeed..I look
              > intently on the JVC amp but cannot found any
              > controls....ahhhh...it is
              > controlled by a remote.....hmmmm......maximum bass
              > and treble
              > activated......loudness activated.....hmmmm......3"
              > bass
              > speaker.......excursion limit of the small bass
              > driver immediately
              > exceeded....it will hit the end stops at once giving
              > a crackling sound
              > on each half wave.....also it screchhees abit due to
              > the producers
              > insistance of having max treble...hmmm gotta explain
              > to the producer.
              >
              > I carefully tell the producer that in my opinon a
              > mastered disk is to be
              > played with flat treble and bass and no loudness.
              > Producer listens with
              > glazed eyes. I tell him that +20 dB increase in the
              > bass means that the
              > small bass driver will produce copious amounts of
              > distortion as it
              > cannot handle all the low frequency energy and I
              > point to the visble
              > diaphragm that visibly moves a lot in the box as it
              > tries to follows the
              > heavily distorted and clipping 2X10W JVC micro
              > amplifier.
              >
              > I remove the bass and treble lift to get it flat and
              > disengages the
              > loudness. I then increase the sound level and
              > everything sounds very
              > good indeed.
              >
              > I look at the producer. He agrees that:
              >
              > "Strange now it sounds very gooood indeed!!"
              >
              > The gears in his head is turning:
              >
              > Producer: "But what if I wish to have max bass and
              > treble and loudness
              > pushed??? And what if somebody else like it that
              > way??? Then it will
              > sound very bad!!!! YOU MUST DO SOMETHING!!!!!! He
              > looks very scared.
              >
              > I try to argue 30 seconds but I realize the producer
              > is not listening no
              > more because he cannot follow my argument nor
              > understand it.
              >
              > I redo the CD Master by cutting off everything below
              > 80 Hz at 24
              > dB/octave. I add + 1.5 dB at 100 Hz and I dip the 5
              > kHz region - 1 dB,
              > Q1.
              >
              > Upon listening again on his micro JVC stereo the
              > Executive A/R producer
              > now looks very happy.
              >
              > "You´re the best!!!!" He tells me patting me on the
              > back while grinning
              > greatly!!
              >
              > You just cannot win.
              >
              > Please do remember that recordings are done to be
              > played on cheap
              > stereos and sound reasonable on them.
              >
              > Producer Andy Black "Music For Nations" London,
              > England which do not
              > excist no more as a record company.
              >
              > I had a terrible row with him 15 years ago:
              >
              > Me: I do believe that recordings are to be mastered
              > in such a way that
              > they will sound excellent on a correctly set up
              > monitor system in an
              > achoustically regulated room.
              >
              > Andy Black: We play every new CD master on the
              > cheapest shittiest stereo
              > in the office ...if it doesn´t sound good on that
              > you have to redo your
              > job that´s why we pay you!! And if you don´t do as I
              > tell you you will
              > not get paid and we will go to someone else who will
              > fix this for us the
              > way we wish it to sound!!!!
              >
              > Now what arguments can I put forth that will make me
              > do the very best
              > job I can do???????
              >
              > 99.9 percent of reproducing equipment just cannot do
              > justice to what is
              > possible to do.
              >
              > The market has never ever been driven by sound
              > quality since that isn´t
              > gonna make a disc sell at all.
              >
              > The buying people buys disks because of the artists
              > and screw the sound.
              >
              > So it is the common lowest denominator that sets the
              > quality in most
              > cases.
              >
              > And I have zero say in most cases. The sound is
              > decided
              === message truncated ===




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            • regtas43
              If one is referring to keeping the instruments themselves at proper humidity, there is an effective and not very expensive device for the purpose called a
              Message 6 of 11 , Apr 2, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                If one is referring to keeping the instruments themselves at proper
                humidity, there is an effective and not very expensive device for the
                purpose called a Dampit, which consists of a plastic tube with holes
                in it and a piece of what amounts to paper towel inside. One soaks it
                in water, then dries the outside(the towel inside being still wet)
                and then the water gradually evaporates from the towel-like item. The
                device van be inserted inthe instruemnt through the left f hole(the
                right one is a bad idea--you might knock the soundpost down. This is
                in wide use among string players.

                REG

                --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, Fred <glenndriech@...> wrote:
                >
                > Heh! Good reading.
                >
                > You describe the classic "Curse of the Consultant"!
                >
                > :-)
                >
                > Fred.
                >
                > P.S.
                > Probably inappropriate for delicate musical
                > instruments but slices of potato should humidify more
                > gradually than sponges.
                >
                >
                >
                > --- Goran Finnberg <mastering@...> wrote:
                >
                > > Ed Wu:
                > >
                > > > I thought the quoted section from the Stereophile
                > > interview might be
                > > > enough to warn some members of this forum (such as
                > > its host) away
                > > > from Fischer recordings. It's too bad; I like
                > > the performances I've
                > > > heard on Philips.
                > >
                > > This is like a constantly moving target.
                > >
                > > Any claim of where the microphones was put in
                > > relation to the orchestra
                > > just have no relation whatsoever how things will
                > > sound in the end.
                > >
                > > If it is dry and hot in the hall one day and during
                > > the night it starts
                > > to rain and the temperature drops 10 degrees then
                > > things sounds
                > > drastically different compared to yesterday and you
                > > have done nothing at
                > > all to the equipment nor the position of the mics.
                > >
                > > In Abbey Road, England, they have a room big enough
                > > to fit a full
                > > symphony orchestra and the preference is around 15°C
                > > and about 80 %
                > > humidity.
                > >
                > > Hot air rises and creates turbulence that sounds as
                > > if the focus or
                > > clarity is out in the sound so you start adding mics
                > > to compensate.
                > >
                > > In the winter when things get very dry with low
                > > levels of humidity
                > > strings start to sound hard and harsh. This can be
                > > offset somehow by
                > > putting wet sponges down the F-hole to try to
                > > increase the humidity in
                > > the instrument.
                > >
                > > You would be surprised to see a bunch of string
                > > player in line to the
                > > toilet with sponges in their hands preparing for a
                > > recording session....
                > >
                > > > In a thread a while back there was a request for
                > > recordings that you
                > > > consider to be a model, especially any you've
                > > helped to engineer or
                > > > master.
                > >
                > > I consider this to be useless.
                > >
                > > I am a hired hand to carry out the wishes of others.
                > >
                > > Example:
                > >
                > > A/R executive producer for one of the biggest record
                > > company in the
                > > world.
                > >
                > > He uses a small micro stereo, JVC, in his office to
                > > listen to disks
                > > coming out of mastering before the pressing starts.
                > >
                > > The speakers uses a 3" bass unit and a 1" treble
                > > unit. and everything is
                > > sitting on a small flimsy table in one corner of a
                > > totally bare room 3 x
                > > 4 meters.
                > >
                > > Producer: This sounds awful. It distorts on every
                > > bass note. A really
                > > bad mastering.
                > >
                > > Me: Huh??
                > >
                > > Producer: Yes! Listen!
                > >
                > > Me: Listening intently...it sounds very distorted
                > > indeed..I look
                > > intently on the JVC amp but cannot found any
                > > controls....ahhhh...it is
                > > controlled by a remote.....hmmmm......maximum bass
                > > and treble
                > > activated......loudness activated.....hmmmm......3"
                > > bass
                > > speaker.......excursion limit of the small bass
                > > driver immediately
                > > exceeded....it will hit the end stops at once giving
                > > a crackling sound
                > > on each half wave.....also it screchhees abit due to
                > > the producers
                > > insistance of having max treble...hmmm gotta explain
                > > to the producer.
                > >
                > > I carefully tell the producer that in my opinon a
                > > mastered disk is to be
                > > played with flat treble and bass and no loudness.
                > > Producer listens with
                > > glazed eyes. I tell him that +20 dB increase in the
                > > bass means that the
                > > small bass driver will produce copious amounts of
                > > distortion as it
                > > cannot handle all the low frequency energy and I
                > > point to the visble
                > > diaphragm that visibly moves a lot in the box as it
                > > tries to follows the
                > > heavily distorted and clipping 2X10W JVC micro
                > > amplifier.
                > >
                > > I remove the bass and treble lift to get it flat and
                > > disengages the
                > > loudness. I then increase the sound level and
                > > everything sounds very
                > > good indeed.
                > >
                > > I look at the producer. He agrees that:
                > >
                > > "Strange now it sounds very gooood indeed!!"
                > >
                > > The gears in his head is turning:
                > >
                > > Producer: "But what if I wish to have max bass and
                > > treble and loudness
                > > pushed??? And what if somebody else like it that
                > > way??? Then it will
                > > sound very bad!!!! YOU MUST DO SOMETHING!!!!!! He
                > > looks very scared.
                > >
                > > I try to argue 30 seconds but I realize the producer
                > > is not listening no
                > > more because he cannot follow my argument nor
                > > understand it.
                > >
                > > I redo the CD Master by cutting off everything below
                > > 80 Hz at 24
                > > dB/octave. I add + 1.5 dB at 100 Hz and I dip the 5
                > > kHz region - 1 dB,
                > > Q1.
                > >
                > > Upon listening again on his micro JVC stereo the
                > > Executive A/R producer
                > > now looks very happy.
                > >
                > > "You´re the best!!!!" He tells me patting me on the
                > > back while grinning
                > > greatly!!
                > >
                > > You just cannot win.
                > >
                > > Please do remember that recordings are done to be
                > > played on cheap
                > > stereos and sound reasonable on them.
                > >
                > > Producer Andy Black "Music For Nations" London,
                > > England which do not
                > > excist no more as a record company.
                > >
                > > I had a terrible row with him 15 years ago:
                > >
                > > Me: I do believe that recordings are to be mastered
                > > in such a way that
                > > they will sound excellent on a correctly set up
                > > monitor system in an
                > > achoustically regulated room.
                > >
                > > Andy Black: We play every new CD master on the
                > > cheapest shittiest stereo
                > > in the office ...if it doesn´t sound good on that
                > > you have to redo your
                > > job that´s why we pay you!! And if you don´t do as I
                > > tell you you will
                > > not get paid and we will go to someone else who will
                > > fix this for us the
                > > way we wish it to sound!!!!
                > >
                > > Now what arguments can I put forth that will make me
                > > do the very best
                > > job I can do???????
                > >
                > > 99.9 percent of reproducing equipment just cannot do
                > > justice to what is
                > > possible to do.
                > >
                > > The market has never ever been driven by sound
                > > quality since that isn´t
                > > gonna make a disc sell at all.
                > >
                > > The buying people buys disks because of the artists
                > > and screw the sound.
                > >
                > > So it is the common lowest denominator that sets the
                > > quality in most
                > > cases.
                > >
                > > And I have zero say in most cases. The sound is
                > > decided
                > === message truncated ===
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ___________________________________________________________
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              • Fred
                Interesting - I can quite picture it. ... Fred. ... === message truncated === ___________________________________________________________ To help you stay safe
                Message 7 of 11 , Apr 2, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  Interesting - I can quite picture it.

                  :-)

                  Fred.



                  --- regtas43 <regonaudio@...> wrote:

                  > If one is referring to keeping the instruments
                  > themselves at proper
                  > humidity, there is an effective and not very
                  > expensive device for the
                  > purpose called a Dampit, which consists of a plastic
                  > tube with holes
                  > in it and a piece of what amounts to paper towel
                  > inside. One soaks it
                  > in water, then dries the outside(the towel inside
                  > being still wet)
                  > and then the water gradually evaporates from the
                  > towel-like item. The
                  > device van be inserted inthe instruemnt through the
                  > left f hole(the
                  > right one is a bad idea--you might knock the
                  > soundpost down. This is
                  > in wide use among string players.
                  >
                  > REG
                  >
                  > --- In regsaudioforum@yahoogroups.com, Fred
                  > <glenndriech@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Heh! Good reading.
                  > >
                  > > You describe the classic "Curse of the
                  > Consultant"!
                  > >
                  > > :-)
                  > >
                  > > Fred.
                  > >
                  > > P.S.
                  > > Probably inappropriate for delicate musical
                  > > instruments but slices of potato should humidify
                  > more
                  > > gradually than sponges.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- Goran Finnberg <mastering@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > > Ed Wu:
                  > > >
                  > > > > I thought the quoted section from the
                  > Stereophile
                  > > > interview might be
                  > > > > enough to warn some members of this forum
                  > (such as
                  > > > its host) away
                  > > > > from Fischer recordings. It's too bad; I
                  > like
                  > > > the performances I've
                  > > > > heard on Philips.
                  > > >
                  > > > This is like a constantly moving target.
                  > > >
                  > > > Any claim of where the microphones was put in
                  > > > relation to the orchestra
                  > > > just have no relation whatsoever how things will
                  > > > sound in the end.
                  > > >
                  > > > If it is dry and hot in the hall one day and
                  > during
                  > > > the night it starts
                  > > > to rain and the temperature drops 10 degrees
                  > then
                  > > > things sounds
                  > > > drastically different compared to yesterday and
                  > you
                  > > > have done nothing at
                  > > > all to the equipment nor the position of the
                  > mics.
                  > > >
                  > > > In Abbey Road, England, they have a room big
                  > enough
                  > > > to fit a full
                  > > > symphony orchestra and the preference is around
                  > 15°C
                  > > > and about 80 %
                  > > > humidity.
                  > > >
                  > > > Hot air rises and creates turbulence that sounds
                  > as
                  > > > if the focus or
                  > > > clarity is out in the sound so you start adding
                  > mics
                  > > > to compensate.
                  > > >
                  > > > In the winter when things get very dry with low
                  > > > levels of humidity
                  > > > strings start to sound hard and harsh. This can
                  > be
                  > > > offset somehow by
                  > > > putting wet sponges down the F-hole to try to
                  > > > increase the humidity in
                  > > > the instrument.
                  > > >
                  > > > You would be surprised to see a bunch of string
                  > > > player in line to the
                  > > > toilet with sponges in their hands preparing for
                  > a
                  > > > recording session....
                  > > >
                  > > > > In a thread a while back there was a request
                  > for
                  > > > recordings that you
                  > > > > consider to be a model, especially any you've
                  > > > helped to engineer or
                  > > > > master.
                  > > >
                  > > > I consider this to be useless.
                  > > >
                  > > > I am a hired hand to carry out the wishes of
                  > others.
                  > > >
                  > > > Example:
                  > > >
                  > > > A/R executive producer for one of the biggest
                  > record
                  > > > company in the
                  > > > world.
                  > > >
                  > > > He uses a small micro stereo, JVC, in his office
                  > to
                  > > > listen to disks
                  > > > coming out of mastering before the pressing
                  > starts.
                  > > >
                  > > > The speakers uses a 3" bass unit and a 1" treble
                  > > > unit. and everything is
                  > > > sitting on a small flimsy table in one corner of
                  > a
                  > > > totally bare room 3 x
                  > > > 4 meters.
                  > > >
                  > > > Producer: This sounds awful. It distorts on
                  > every
                  > > > bass note. A really
                  > > > bad mastering.
                  > > >
                  > > > Me: Huh??
                  > > >
                  > > > Producer: Yes! Listen!
                  > > >
                  > > > Me: Listening intently...it sounds very
                  > distorted
                  > > > indeed..I look
                  > > > intently on the JVC amp but cannot found any
                  > > > controls....ahhhh...it is
                  > > > controlled by a remote.....hmmmm......maximum
                  > bass
                  > > > and treble
                  > > > activated......loudness
                  > activated.....hmmmm......3"
                  > > > bass
                  > > > speaker.......excursion limit of the small bass
                  > > > driver immediately
                  > > > exceeded....it will hit the end stops at once
                  > giving
                  > > > a crackling sound
                  > > > on each half wave.....also it screchhees abit
                  > due to
                  > > > the producers
                  > > > insistance of having max treble...hmmm gotta
                  > explain
                  > > > to the producer.
                  > > >
                  > > > I carefully tell the producer that in my opinon
                  > a
                  > > > mastered disk is to be
                  > > > played with flat treble and bass and no
                  > loudness.
                  > > > Producer listens with
                  > > > glazed eyes. I tell him that +20 dB increase in
                  > the
                  > > > bass means that the
                  > > > small bass driver will produce copious amounts
                  > of
                  > > > distortion as it
                  > > > cannot handle all the low frequency energy and I
                  > > > point to the visble
                  > > > diaphragm that visibly moves a lot in the box as
                  > it
                  > > > tries to follows the
                  > > > heavily distorted and clipping 2X10W JVC micro
                  > > > amplifier.
                  > > >
                  > > > I remove the bass and treble lift to get it flat
                  > and
                  > > > disengages the
                  > > > loudness. I then increase the sound level and
                  > > > everything sounds very
                  > > > good indeed.
                  > > >
                  > > > I look at the producer. He agrees that:
                  > > >
                  > > > "Strange now it sounds very gooood indeed!!"
                  > > >
                  > > > The gears in his head is turning:
                  > > >
                  >
                  === message truncated ===




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