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Re: Mellel and Pages

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  • Mark Hadfield
    Hi Ori, On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 06:50:30 +0200, RedleX Mail ... We ve just got a copy of Pages for evaluation and it s far too early for us to
    Message 1 of 95 , Feb 1, 2005
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      Hi Ori,

      On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 06:50:30 +0200, RedleX Mail <redlex@...>

      > On the other hand, Pages have only a rudimentary footnote tool (non
      > existent, really, for serious use), rudimentary ToC support, no
      > auto-numbering, no mentions, no bibliography support, no right to left
      > support, and so on.

      We've just got a copy of Pages for evaluation and it's far too early
      for us to draw any conclusions, but my first impressions are that Pages
      will suit us better for some things and Mellel will continue to serve
      for others. My colleagues who would not budge from Word for Mellel, are
      very excited about Pages for certain tasks and appear more likely to
      adopt a Pages version 2 than a Mellel version 2 or 3 IMHO :-(

      I'd like to comment on a couple of points that you raised above (i.e.
      my silence on the other points implying my agreement with you on those
      points). I make these points in the hope that Mellel can learn a few
      tricks from Pages without trying to copy Pages as such: Mellel must
      take a different route to serve "serious writers" in my humble opinion.

      1. What do you think is rudimentary about Pages ToC support? My first
      impressions are that it is comparable to Mellel's current offering.
      Note that: every paragraph style has one set of attributes for the
      document and another set of attributes for the ToC, just like Mellel
      (click on a ToC and you will see the Styles Drawer change); a ToC
      updates automatically when you click on it, unlike Mellel; a document
      can have multiple ToCs, e.g. one per chapter or section, can Mellel do

      2. Pages DOES have auto-numbering of lists, structure and paragraphs
      (Mellel only has the first two). Pages has a List *Style* which can be
      applied to any paragraph (and a Paragraph Style can optionally embody a
      List Style). The numbering within a List Style is not as configurable
      as Mellel but all the common numbering schemes for "flat lists" and
      "hierarchical lists" are provided. Restarting the numbering sequence or
      continuing it is a breeze, as is promoting or demoting within a
      hierarchy (although there is no separate structural view as in Mellel).
      Within just a few minutes I was able to define a set of Paragraph
      Styles for a hierarchically numbered document containing numbered
      headings, numbered paragraphs and numbered lists, something I've not
      been able to do satisfactorily in Mellel with regards to numbered
      paragraphs as you know from our previous discussions. In prior
      discussion on this forum I suggested that rather than Mellel have three
      different mechanisms for lists, structure and (hopefully one day)
      paragraphs, that a single metaphor should surely suffice? Well, Pages
      seems to have done it, different to MS Word and all it's imitators,
      different to Mellel, and IMHO very elegantly. Please take a careful
      look at numbering in Pages and review the points I raised in previous
      discussions about a uniform numbering mechanism.

      I continue to use Mellel and to be actively interested in it's
      development. I'm initially impressed with Pages but have yet to fully
      put it through it's paces. I suspect it will not replace Mellel for
      long, structured documents (i.e. assuming that it does indeed become
      slow as the document length increases - who remembers how slow version
      1 of iPhoto was with large albums but that issue was quickly fixed in
      version 2). However, Pages does have obvious aspirations in the
      direction of structured documents (e.g. in version 1 we have Sections,
      multiple ToCs, and auto numbering) so a version 2 could be a very
      serious threat to Mellel for users who don't need multiple languages
      and biblios - and even in Pages version 1, auto numbering may well
      prove to be too compelling for me to ignore in my day-to-day work as
      Mellel really is a struggle for numbered paragraphs :-(

      Oh yes, Pages does NOT provide multiple views / windows / vistas of the
      same document, which I'm still hoping to see in Mellel sometime. <grin>

      kindest regards,

    • Robert P. Cameron
      ... After looking at the price and the number of fonts included, it looks like it is probably just a collection of fonts that use the Latin 1 (ISO-8859-1) or
      Message 95 of 95 , Feb 11, 2005
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        On 11 Feb 2005, at 14.35, Stephen Still wrote:

        > Possibly of interest:
        > http://www.macxware.com/candypress/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=53

        After looking at the price and the number of fonts included, it looks
        like it is probably just a collection of fonts that use the Latin 1
        (ISO-8859-1) or MacRoman characters, and possibly have OpenType tables
        for simple ligatures (fi, fl, ffi, ffl). Without seeing a complete
        sample, I cannot comment more. Also, OpenType is also a format that
        can include both PostScript and TrueType fonts in a single package, and
        does not necessarily indicate whether or not the font has OpenType

        -- Robert Cameron
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