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  • raymond
    Hello, I am facing a problem, probably been answered previously, about how to combine Hebrew text and latin letter and figure as follows in the below example.
    Message 1 of 9 , Jun 15, 2010
      Hello,

      I am facing a problem, probably been answered previously, about how to combine Hebrew text and latin letter and figure as follows in the below example.
      In the first line the order from R2L is the correct order, and it expresses that 10 members MULTIPLY by 10 years equals... but there is no space between the latin letter which represents the Multiply sign and the figure 10. In the second line it shows that when adding one space between the X and the figure 10 the order is changed and is not the correct one.
      How I can fix it

      10 חברים  10X שנות חברות 

      10 חברים  10 X שנות חברות 


      TIA
    • Janet S.S. Nussbaum
      yes, a number of people have asked similar questions in the past. The source of the problem is that Mellel adheres to international conventions of imbedding
      Message 2 of 9 , Jun 15, 2010
        yes, a number of people have asked similar questions in the past.

        The source of the "problem" is that Mellel adheres to international conventions of imbedding LtR text in RtL documents.

        You have several ways available to workaround the international conventions

        1.  input the text backwards
        e.g. type "X 10" instead of "10 X"
        For short, occasional input, this is probably the easiest solution

        2.  use the Direction Breaking Space [Insert/Special Characters/Spaces]
        e.g. type 10 followed by Direction Breaking Space followed by X

        3.  there also should be some way to use the direction option in the Character Appearance palette, but I've never been able to get that to work for me.

        By the way, MAIL also adheres to the same LtR/RtL conventions.

        Janet S.S. Nussbaum
        Kiriat Ono, Israel

        ג'נט נוסבאום
        קרית אונו





        On 15 Jun, 2010, at 5:24 PM, raymond wrote:



        Hello,

        I am facing a problem, probably been answered previously, about how to combine Hebrew text and latin letter and figure as follows in the below example.
        In the first line the order from R2L is the correct order, and it expresses that 10 members MULTIPLY by 10 years equals... but there is no space between the latin letter which represents the Multiply sign and the figure 10. In the second line it shows that when adding one space between the X and the figure 10 the order is changed and is not the correct one.
        How I can fix it

        10 חברים  10X שנות חברות 

        10 חברים  10 X שנות חברות 


        TIA



      • raymond
        Thanks Janet for your explanations, l l keep them in my tutorials folder for Mellel for future inconveniences. I hope Redlers would find a more handy way to
        Message 3 of 9 , Jun 15, 2010
          Thanks Janet for your explanations, l'l keep them in my tutorials folder for Mellel for future inconveniences.
          I hope Redlers would find a more handy way to overcome it.

          On 15/06/2010, at 5:51 PM, Janet S.S. Nussbaum wrote:



          yes, a number of people have asked similar questions in the past.

          The source of the "problem" is that Mellel adheres to international conventions of imbedding LtR text in RtL documents.

          You have several ways available to workaround the international conventions

          1.  input the text backwards
          e.g. type "X 10" instead of "10 X"
          For short, occasional input, this is probably the easiest solution

          2.  use the Direction Breaking Space [Insert/Special Characters/Spaces]
          e.g. type 10 followed by Direction Breaking Space followed by X

          3.  there also should be some way to use the direction option in the Character Appearance palette, but I've never been able to get that to work for me.

          By the way, MAIL also adheres to the same LtR/RtL conventions.

          Janet S.S. Nussbaum
          Kiriat Ono, Israel

          ג'נט נוסבאום
          קרית אונו





          On 15 Jun, 2010, at 5:24 PM, raymond wrote:



          Hello,

          I am facing a problem, probably been answered previously, about how to combine Hebrew text and latin letter and figure as follows in the below example.
          In the first line the order from R2L is the correct order, and it expresses that 10 members MULTIPLY by 10 years equals... but there is no space between the latin letter which represents the Multiply sign and the figure 10. In the second line it shows that when adding one space between the X and the figure 10 the order is changed and is not the correct one.
          How I can fix it

          10 חברים  10X שנות חברות 

          10 חברים  10 X שנות חברות 


          TIA






        • Janet S.S. Nussbaum
          No, the Reders are not likely to change Mellel s RtL/LtR behavior, nor should they. They provide us with a tool whose behavior is well defined, predictable,
          Message 4 of 9 , Jun 15, 2010
            No, the Reders are not likely to change Mellel's RtL/LtR behavior, nor should they.

            They provide us with a tool whose behavior is well defined, predictable, and replicable -- exactly as they should.

            Janet S.S. Nussbaum
            Kiriat Ono, Israel

            ג'נט נוסבאום
            קרית אונו





            On 15 Jun, 2010, at 6:32 PM, raymond wrote:



            Thanks Janet for your explanations, l'l keep them in my tutorials folder for Mellel for future inconveniences.
            I hope Redlers would find a more handy way to overcome it.

            On 15/06/2010, at 5:51 PM, Janet S.S. Nussbaum wrote:



            yes, a number of people have asked similar questions in the past.

            The source of the "problem" is that Mellel adheres to international conventions of imbedding LtR text in RtL documents.

            You have several ways available to workaround the international conventions

            1.  input the text backwards
            e.g. type "X 10" instead of "10 X"
            For short, occasional input, this is probably the easiest solution

            2.  use the Direction Breaking Space [Insert/Special Characters/Spaces]
            e.g. type 10 followed by Direction Breaking Space followed by X

            3.  there also should be some way to use the direction option in the Character Appearance palette, but I've never been able to get that to work for me.

            By the way, MAIL also adheres to the same LtR/RtL conventions.

            Janet S.S. Nussbaum
            Kiriat Ono, Israel

            ג'נט נוסבאום
            קרית אונו





            On 15 Jun, 2010, at 5:24 PM, raymond wrote:



            Hello,

            I am facing a problem, probably been answered previously, about how to combine Hebrew text and latin letter and figure as follows in the below example.
            In the first line the order from R2L is the correct order, and it expresses that 10 members MULTIPLY by 10 years equals... but there is no space between the latin letter which represents the Multiply sign and the figure 10. In the second line it shows that when adding one space between the X and the figure 10 the order is changed and is not the correct one.
            How I can fix it

            10 חברים  10X שנות חברות 

            10 חברים  10 X שנות חברות 


            TIA









          • Gideon Goldenberg
            Hello, What you need here is not to insert the Latin x [eks] charachter but to use the multiplication sign [Unicode 00D7] and you get it all smooth 10
            Message 5 of 9 , Jun 15, 2010
              Hello,

              What you need here is not to insert the Latin x [eks] charachter but to use the "multiplication sign" [Unicode 00D7] and you get it all smooth

              10 חברים × 10 שנות חברות   (printed here in Arial Unicode MS)

              Gideon


              On 15 Jun 2010, at 5:24, raymond wrote:



              Hello,

              I am facing a problem, probably been answered previously, about how to combine Hebrew text and latin letter and figure as follows in the below example.
              In the first line the order from R2L is the correct order, and it expresses that 10 members MULTIPLY by 10 years equals... but there is no space between the latin letter which represents the Multiply sign and the figure 10. In the second line it shows that when adding one space between the X and the figure 10 the order is changed and is not the correct one.
              How I can fix it

              10 חברים  10X שנות חברות 

              10 חברים  10 X שנות חברות 


              TIA



            • raymond
              Hello, Thanks for your very useful ( I hope) suggestion. I have tried to apply it but couldn t find the Multiplication sign. I looked character pallet under
              Message 6 of 9 , Jun 15, 2010
                Hello,
                Thanks for your very useful ( I hope) suggestion.

                I have tried to apply it but couldn't find the Multiplication sign.
                I looked  character pallet under the languages menu in the upper right side menu bar, in the section Mathematical Symbol, but found there one X which refused to obey and mad me the same problematic situation.

                I will appreciate if can guide where i can find this character.

                Toda
                Sorry, I found it. I saw in the bottom part a field for search and I made a search and found it and it works.
                And how do you know that X is Unicode 00D7?

                On 15/06/2010, at 9:47 PM, Gideon Goldenberg wrote:



                Hello,

                What you need here is not to insert the Latin x [eks] charachter but to use the "multiplication sign" [Unicode 00D7] and you get it all smooth

                10 חברים × 10 שנות חברות   (printed here in Arial Unicode MS)

                Gideon


                On 15 Jun 2010, at 5:24, raymond wrote:



                Hello,

                I am facing a problem, probably been answered previously, about how to combine Hebrew text and latin letter and figure as follows in the below example.
                In the first line the order from R2L is the correct order, and it expresses that 10 members MULTIPLY by 10 years equals... but there is no space between the latin letter which represents the Multiply sign and the figure 10. In the second line it shows that when adding one space between the X and the figure 10 the order is changed and is not the correct one.
                How I can fix it

                10 חברים  10X שנות חברות 

                10 חברים  10 X שנות חברות 


                TIA






              • Janet S.S. Nussbaum
                Raymond, In the Character Viewer -- set the View mode to Code Tables [upper left] -- and the encoding to Unicode [upper center] -- page down the display to
                Message 7 of 9 , Jun 15, 2010
                  Raymond, In the Character Viewer
                   -- set the View mode to Code Tables [upper left]
                   -- and the encoding to Unicode [upper center]
                   -- page down the display to 00D7; it's part of the Latin-1 Supplement set [oddly placed among the variations of the O character]

                  Janet S.S. Nussbaum
                  Kiriat Ono, Israel

                  ג'נט נוסבאום
                  קרית אונו





                  On 15 Jun, 2010, at 11:26 PM, raymond wrote:



                  Hello,
                  Thanks for your very useful ( I hope) suggestion.

                  I have tried to apply it but couldn't find the Multiplication sign.
                  I looked  character pallet under the languages menu in the upper right side menu bar, in the section Mathematical Symbol, but found there one X which refused to obey and mad me the same problematic situation.

                  I will appreciate if can guide where i can find this character.

                  Toda
                  Sorry, I found it. I saw in the bottom part a field for search and I made a search and found it and it works.
                  And how do you know that X is Unicode 00D7?

                  On 15/06/2010, at 9:47 PM, Gideon Goldenberg wrote:



                  Hello,

                  What you need here is not to insert the Latin x [eks] charachter but to use the "multiplication sign" [Unicode 00D7] and you get it all smooth

                  10 חברים × 10 שנות חברות   (printed here in Arial Unicode MS)

                  Gideon


                  On 15 Jun 2010, at 5:24, raymond wrote:



                  Hello,

                  I am facing a problem, probably been answered previously, about how to combine Hebrew text and latin letter and figure as follows in the below example.
                  In the first line the order from R2L is the correct order, and it expresses that 10 members MULTIPLY by 10 years equals... but there is no space between the latin letter which represents the Multiply sign and the figure 10. In the second line it shows that when adding one space between the X and the figure 10 the order is changed and is not the correct one.
                  How I can fix it

                  10 חברים  10X שנות חברות 

                  10 חברים  10 X שנות חברות 


                  TIA









                • raymond
                  Janet, I am in confusion as to the second line in you explanation. Where is this encoding to Unicode [upper center] I hope you would elaborate little more.
                  Message 8 of 9 , Jun 15, 2010
                    Janet,

                    I am in confusion as to the second line in you explanation. Where is this encoding to Unicode [upper center]

                    I hope you would elaborate little more.
                    Attach is a screen picture of my character viewer, which could give you a better understanding where I am lost.


                    On 16/06/2010, at 12:03 AM, Janet S.S. Nussbaum wrote:



                    Raymond, In the Character Viewer
                     -- set the View mode to Code Tables [upper left]
                     -- and the encoding to Unicode [upper center]
                     -- page down the display to 00D7; it's part of the Latin-1 Supplement set [oddly placed among the variations of the O character]

                    Janet S.S. Nussbaum
                    Kiriat Ono, Israel

                    ג'נט נוסבאום
                    קרית אונו





                    On 15 Jun, 2010, at 11:26 PM, raymond wrote:



                    Hello,
                    Thanks for your very useful ( I hope) suggestion.

                    I have tried to apply it but couldn't find the Multiplication sign.
                    I looked  character pallet under the languages menu in the upper right side menu bar, in the section Mathematical Symbol, but found there one X which refused to obey and mad me the same problematic situation.

                    I will appreciate if can guide where i can find this character.

                    Toda
                    Sorry, I found it. I saw in the bottom part a field for search and I made a search and found it and it works.
                    And how do you know that X is Unicode 00D7?

                    On 15/06/2010, at 9:47 PM, Gideon Goldenberg wrote:



                    Hello,

                    What you need here is not to insert the Latin x [eks] charachter but to use the "multiplication sign" [Unicode 00D7] and you get it all smooth

                    10 חברים × 10 שנות חברות   (printed here in Arial Unicode MS)

                    Gideon


                    On 15 Jun 2010, at 5:24, raymond wrote:



                    Hello,

                    I am facing a problem, probably been answered previously, about how to combine Hebrew text and latin letter and figure as follows in the below example.
                    In the first line the order from R2L is the correct order, and it expresses that 10 members MULTIPLY by 10 years equals... but there is no space between the latin letter which represents the Multiply sign and the figure 10. In the second line it shows that when adding one space between the X and the figure 10 the order is changed and is not the correct one.
                    How I can fix it

                    10 חברים  10X שנות חברות 

                    10 חברים  10 X שנות חברות 


                    TIA












                  • Janet S.S. Nussbaum
                    You are not at all lost. You ve done exactly what I said: — you have selected Code Tables on the upper left — you have selected Unicode on the upper
                    Message 9 of 9 , Jun 15, 2010
                      You are not at all lost.

                      You've done exactly what I said: 
                       — you have selected "Code Tables" on the upper left
                       — you have selected "Unicode" on the upper center
                       — you have paged down to the Latin-1 Supplement set and selected position 00D7

                      Where is the problem?

                      Click Insert on the lower right and the character will appear in your text.

                      Note: There is a known Mellel bug -- the "Insert with Font" option is broken.  If you want to change the font of the inserted character you have to make the change in your document and not here in the Special Characters palette.

                      Janet S.S. Nussbaum
                      Kiriat Ono, Israel

                      ג'נט נוסבאום
                      קרית אונו





                      On 16 Jun, 2010, at 9:03 AM, raymond wrote:

                      Janet,

                      I am in confusion as to the second line in you explanation. Where is this encoding to Unicode [upper center]

                      I hope you would elaborate little more.
                      Attach is a screen picture of my character viewer, which could give you a better understanding where I am lost.

                      <Screen shot 2010-06-16 at 8.59.37 AM.jpg>
                      On 16/06/2010, at 12:03 AM, Janet S.S. Nussbaum wrote:



                      Raymond, In the Character Viewer
                       -- set the View mode to Code Tables [upper left]
                       -- and the encoding to Unicode [upper center]
                       -- page down the display to 00D7; it's part of the Latin-1 Supplement set [oddly placed among the variations of the O character]

                      Janet S.S. Nussbaum
                      Kiriat Ono, Israel

                      ג'נט נוסבאום
                      קרית אונו





                      On 15 Jun, 2010, at 11:26 PM, raymond wrote:



                      Hello,
                      Thanks for your very useful ( I hope) suggestion.

                      I have tried to apply it but couldn't find the Multiplication sign.
                      I looked  character pallet under the languages menu in the upper right side menu bar, in the section Mathematical Symbol, but found there one X which refused to obey and mad me the same problematic situation.

                      I will appreciate if can guide where i can find this character.

                      Toda
                      Sorry, I found it. I saw in the bottom part a field for search and I made a search and found it and it works.
                      And how do you know that X is Unicode 00D7?

                      On 15/06/2010, at 9:47 PM, Gideon Goldenberg wrote:



                      Hello,

                      What you need here is not to insert the Latin x [eks] charachter but to use the "multiplication sign" [Unicode 00D7] and you get it all smooth

                      10 חברים × 10 שנות חברות   (printed here in Arial Unicode MS)

                      Gideon


                      On 15 Jun 2010, at 5:24, raymond wrote:



                      Hello,

                      I am facing a problem, probably been answered previously, about how to combine Hebrew text and latin letter and figure as follows in the below example.
                      In the first line the order from R2L is the correct order, and it expresses that 10 members MULTIPLY by 10 years equals... but there is no space between the latin letter which represents the Multiply sign and the figure 10. In the second line it shows that when adding one space between the X and the figure 10 the order is changed and is not the correct one.
                      How I can fix it

                      10 חברים  10X שנות חברות 

                      10 חברים  10 X שנות חברות 


                      TIA













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