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Re: [redhat] HELP: Linux booting problem

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  • Jeff Lane
    ... First question would be, what did you change? After a long time doing Linux tech support, I have learned two things (at least): 1: Linux doesnt just stop
    Message 1 of 23 , Jan 18, 2005
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      On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 06:42:32 -0000, fahimtawa <fahimtawa@...> wrote:
      > I am new to Linux and am using Linux Red Hat 7.2. My Linux was
      > working fine but since yesterday I am facing some booting problems.
      > The problem is that during booting it comes to a particular point,
      >
      > " starting lpd: No Printers Defined [OK] "
      >
      > and just stops and doesn't go further. I don't even have any
      > printers connected to my PC. It would be great if anyone could help
      > me out as i have no clue as to what is to be done to overcome this
      > problem.


      First question would be, what did you change? After a long time doing
      Linux tech support, I have learned two things (at least):

      1: Linux doesnt just stop working mysteriously without A: Hardware
      issues, or B: User issues.

      2: Invariably, ultimately, the user installed something, edited
      something, or deleted something causing the issue that prompted the
      call to tech support.

      2a. 85% of all Linux issues are PEBKAC issues, and the other 15% are
      hardware issues, or something like that.

      For example, perhaps you (or someone else) turned the machine off
      without properly shutting it down. This, in older Red Hat versions,
      pre-ext3, could cause all sorts of craziness to ensue.

      So how to find out what is going on.

      First off, boot the machine. When you see the very quick message show
      up that says something like "Entering Startup, Press I for Interacive
      Startup" (or something similar, I dont remember off hand the exact
      text of the message) during boot, press I to enter Interactive. You
      will only have about 2 seconds to do this, so be quick about it. It
      may take you 4 or 5 reboots to get it right.

      It usually takes me that many because I have a short attention span.

      Next, go through the services one by one and start the ones you need.
      since it seems to stop working after LPD starts up, do NOT start LPD,
      and do NOT start whatever boots up after that.

      then see if the system boots and works.

      Another thing to consider is that you may have a bad ram chip
      somewhere also, or even a bad sector on your hard disk.

      You didnt tell us anywhere near enough information about your
      situation or system. So please, be more precise.

      What have you changed?
      What have you installed?
      What have you removed?
      what is the system specs for your machine?
      What is the average airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?

      Sorry I couldnt tell you more. Maybe Godwin or some of the others
      here can help a bit more, or at least offer a different viewpoint.

      Let us know more detail, and perhaps we can resolve this.

      As another suggestion, try downloading and installing Fedora Core 2.
      RH7.2 is ancient by IS/IT standards, and AFAIK no one is providing
      updates for it. If you are gonna learn, you may as well learn on the
      latest versions of Linux (Fedora 2, SuSE9, latest Debian, or whatever
      floats your boat).

      Cheers
      Jeff

      --
      ------------------> Jeffrey Lane - W4KDH <-------------------
      www.jefflane.org
      Yet another IT Ronin

      The internet has no government, no constitution, no laws, no
      rights, no police, no courts. Don't talk about fairness or
      innocence, and don't talk about what should be done. Instead,
      talk about what is being done and what will be done by the
      amorphous unreachable undefinable blob called "the internet
      user base." -Paul Vixie
    • r
      ====== Message snipped by moderator leaving the essential text, not virtually the whole untrimmed message. ... What is PEBKAC?
      Message 2 of 23 , Jan 18, 2005
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        ======
        Message snipped by moderator leaving the essential text, not virtually the whole
        untrimmed message.
        ======

        --- Jeff Lane <sundowner225@...> wrote:

        > 2a. 85% of all Linux issues are PEBKAC issues, and
        > the other 15% are
        > hardware issues, or something like that.

        What is PEBKAC?
      • Godwin Stewart
        ... Hash: SHA1 On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 05:34:47 -0800 (PST), r ... Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair - -- G. Stewart -
        Message 3 of 23 , Jan 18, 2005
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          On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 05:34:47 -0800 (PST), r <talentedmrripley_99@...>
          wrote:

          > > 2a. 85% of all Linux issues are PEBKAC issues, and
          > > the other 15% are
          > > hardware issues, or something like that.
          >
          > What is PEBKAC?

          Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair

          - --
          G. Stewart - gstewart@...

          Sign spotted outside a second hand shop:
          WE EXCHANGE ANYTHING - BICYCLES, WASHING MACHINES, ETC.
          WHY NOT BRING YOUR WIFE ALONG AND GET A WONDERFUL BARGAIN?
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        • ed
          On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 14:43:52 +0100 ... Ive not heard that gem in a while!
          Message 4 of 23 , Jan 18, 2005
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            On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 14:43:52 +0100
            Godwin Stewart <gstewart@...> wrote:

            > Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair

            Ive not heard that gem in a while!
          • ed
            On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 08:09:34 -0500 ... Like what? Fsck running when the file system mounts? Thats not crazy, thats reasonable. There are many systems which run
            Message 5 of 23 , Jan 18, 2005
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              On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 08:09:34 -0500
              Jeff Lane <sundowner225@...> wrote:

              > For example, perhaps you (or someone else) turned the machine off
              > without properly shutting it down. This, in older Red Hat versions,
              > pre-ext3, could cause all sorts of craziness to ensue.

              Like what? Fsck running when the file system mounts? Thats not crazy,
              thats reasonable.

              There are many systems which run embedded Linux kernels which expect to
              be bounced regularly.

              Something which could cause a little craziness is running rpm
              incorrectly.

              Take the above with a moderate pinch of salt.
            • Godwin Stewart
              ... Hash: SHA1 ... More like the system halting with a message telling the user to run fsck manually. You and I know to expect that. Someone starting with
              Message 6 of 23 , Jan 18, 2005
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                On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 13:49:09 +0000, ed <ed@...> wrote:

                > Like what? Fsck running when the file system mounts?

                More like the system halting with a message telling the user to run fsck
                manually. You and I know to expect that. Someone starting with Linux will
                definitely *not* expect it, and some users start to panic when they see
                unexpected things.

                - --
                G. Stewart - gstewart@...

                Radioactive cats have 18 half-lives
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              • ed
                On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 15:22:05 +0100 ... I guess, but Windows FAT does the same with scandisk messages and stuff, to a degree they have to expect that when the
                Message 7 of 23 , Jan 18, 2005
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                  On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 15:22:05 +0100
                  Godwin Stewart <gstewart@...> wrote:

                  > > Like what? Fsck running when the file system mounts?
                  >
                  > More like the system halting with a message telling the user to run
                  > fsck manually. You and I know to expect that. Someone starting with
                  > Linux will definitely *not* expect it, and some users start to panic
                  > when they see unexpected things.

                  I guess, but Windows FAT does the same with scandisk messages and stuff,
                  to a degree they have to expect that when the system powers off without
                  unmounting. I got pretty used to aborting scandisk warning in my 'doze
                  days, maybe this was bad, maybe not, chkdsk could solve most problems in
                  shorter time, but thats gone to the graveyard now.

                  A sysadmin who panics is a bad sysadmin in my general opinion, true
                  though that not everyone using Linux is going to want to be a sysadmin,
                  although it does grow on us a bit.
                • Godwin Stewart
                  ... Hash: SHA1 ... Not exactly. scandisk just gets on with it. It doesn t stop the machine halfway through the boot process with a message saying Run
                  Message 8 of 23 , Jan 18, 2005
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                    On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 14:29:06 +0000, ed <ed@...> wrote:

                    > I guess, but Windows FAT does the same with scandisk messages and stuff

                    Not exactly.

                    scandisk just gets on with it. It doesn't stop the machine halfway through
                    the boot process with a message saying "Run scandisk.exe manually blah blah"

                    - --
                    G. Stewart - gstewart@...

                    "Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession.
                    I have come to realize that it bears a very close
                    resemblance to the first."
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                  • Jeff Lane
                    ... s/craziness/hilarity/g Not saying that the effect is crazy, but saying that crazy things do happen to a system in that instance... for example... system
                    Message 9 of 23 , Jan 18, 2005
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                      On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 13:49:09 +0000, ed <ed@...> wrote:
                      > > For example, perhaps you (or someone else) turned the machine off
                      > > without properly shutting it down. This, in older Red Hat versions,
                      > > pre-ext3, could cause all sorts of craziness to ensue.
                      >
                      > Like what? Fsck running when the file system mounts? Thats not crazy,
                      > thats reasonable.

                      s/craziness/hilarity/g

                      Not saying that the effect is crazy, but saying that crazy things do
                      happen to a system in that instance... for example... system doing a
                      series of writes to disk, and being unplugged in the middle of that.
                      Causes all sorts of things, from hard disk damage (in extreme cases,
                      and rare, I admit), to lost data, data corruption, to simply a forced
                      fsck at the next boot... in this case crazyness == unexpected things.

                      > There are many systems which run embedded Linux kernels which expect to
                      > be bounced regularly.

                      Sure, but he isnt running embedded linux. Those systems, for the most
                      part, exist on NVRAM, EEPROMS, etc, which are solid state devices, so
                      they are immune to that kind of stuff...

                      Its akin to an idea I had before of setting up web servers using a
                      live CD distro. Configuring apache on the live CD to pull its config
                      from writable partitions on a physical hard disk, still using files in
                      /etc, but also using files on hard disk for additional configuration,
                      or perhaps even using files on hard disk to override files on the CDs
                      /etc.

                      Then configuring the live CD to mount an onboard hard disk as /home,
                      and putting all customer sites there.

                      Then, no matter what, if your box gets owned, there is really little
                      that anyone can do to it. You simply give it an init 6, machien
                      reboots off the live CD (and perhaps the CD could be configured to
                      load its entire contents into a ram disk for ultimate speed, if you
                      have that much ram available in the target server) and viola, you have
                      a clean system, with no nasty cracker stuff to bother you (outside of
                      the obvious files and ftp servers that they try to hide in the users
                      web space). Total down time for an intrusion: however long it takes
                      you to reboot and repopulate the hard disk based /etc/ /var/ and /home
                      from backups.

                      but again, thats a digression, but along the lines of embedded.

                      > Something which could cause a little craziness is running rpm
                      > incorrectly.

                      Indeed... a personal favorite, had a user call up cause he did "#rpm -e rpm"

                      > Take the above with a moderate pinch of salt.

                      Mmmm Salt is yummy... esp on chips with vinegar...

                      Jeff


                      --
                      ------------------> Jeffrey Lane - W4KDH <-------------------
                      www.jefflane.org
                      Yet another IT Ronin

                      The internet has no government, no constitution, no laws, no
                      rights, no police, no courts. Don't talk about fairness or
                      innocence, and don't talk about what should be done. Instead,
                      talk about what is being done and what will be done by the
                      amorphous unreachable undefinable blob called "the internet
                      user base." -Paul Vixie
                    • Jeff Lane
                      ... I should also correct those personal and arbitrary statistics: 75% PEBKAC 10% Hardware 15% Software (updates that break things, incorrect versioning, etc)
                      Message 10 of 23 , Jan 18, 2005
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                        On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 14:43:52 +0100, Godwin Stewart <gstewart@...> wrote:
                        > On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 05:34:47 -0800 (PST), r <talentedmrripley_99@...>
                        > wrote:
                        >
                        > > > 2a. 85% of all Linux issues are PEBKAC issues, and
                        > > > the other 15% are
                        > > > hardware issues, or something like that.
                        > >
                        > > What is PEBKAC?
                        >
                        > Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair

                        I should also correct those personal and arbitrary statistics:

                        75% PEBKAC
                        10% Hardware
                        15% Software (updates that break things, incorrect versioning, etc)

                        --
                        ------------------> Jeffrey Lane - W4KDH <-------------------
                        www.jefflane.org
                        Yet another IT Ronin

                        The internet has no government, no constitution, no laws, no
                        rights, no police, no courts. Don't talk about fairness or
                        innocence, and don't talk about what should be done. Instead,
                        talk about what is being done and what will be done by the
                        amorphous unreachable undefinable blob called "the internet
                        user base." -Paul Vixie
                      • ed
                        On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 09:45:39 -0500 ... Thats not limited to Linux though, if you yank the power out of any running system then expect the unexpected, (which of
                        Message 11 of 23 , Jan 18, 2005
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                          On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 09:45:39 -0500
                          Jeff Lane <sundowner225@...> wrote:

                          > Not saying that the effect is crazy, but saying that crazy things do
                          > happen to a system in that instance... for example... system doing a
                          > series of writes to disk, and being unplugged in the middle of that.
                          > Causes all sorts of things, from hard disk damage (in extreme cases,
                          > and rare, I admit), to lost data, data corruption, to simply a forced
                          > fsck at the next boot... in this case crazyness == unexpected things.

                          Thats not limited to Linux though, if you yank the power out of any
                          running system then expect the unexpected, (which of course then means
                          the unexpected is now expected, back to square one - I never did
                          understand the common use of the phrase).

                          However NTFS/Ext3/Reiserfs/XFS have their own methods of helpful
                          prevention, but if in the middle of replacing a kernel image you may
                          have some peculiar results and one's imagination can only hint at what
                          may be the end result.

                          Ed.
                        • Godwin Stewart
                          ... Hash: SHA1 On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 05:34:47 -0800 (PST), r ... FYI and FWIW I just put up a page with some commonly used
                          Message 12 of 23 , Jan 18, 2005
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                            On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 05:34:47 -0800 (PST), r <talentedmrripley_99@...>
                            wrote:

                            > What is PEBKAC?

                            FYI and FWIW I just put up a page with some commonly used acronyms.

                            http://linux.sgms-centre.com/misc/acronyms.php

                            - --
                            G. Stewart - gstewart@...

                            'Palladium' is an answer to a question no one asked.
                            You want safety, trusted code and no viruses? Get Linux.
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                          • Davey Brain
                            ... Ed, My auto mechanic brother-in-law always says The weakest part of any automobile is the nut the holds the steering wheel. I guess by extension that
                            Message 13 of 23 , Jan 18, 2005
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                              ed wrote:
                              > On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 14:43:52 +0100
                              > Godwin Stewart <gstewart@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              >>Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair
                              >
                              >
                              > Ive not heard that gem in a while!
                              >

                              Ed,
                              My auto mechanic brother-in-law always says "The weakest part of any
                              automobile is the nut the holds the steering wheel." I guess by
                              extension that might be applied to computers also: "The weakest part of
                              any computer system is the nut that holds the mouse or touches the
                              keys." It's like reminding people, "Please ensure that the brain is in
                              gear before engaging the mouth (or the fingers in the case of email)."

                              Sincerely,
                              WarpDavey
                              --
                              Davey Brain
                              Due to political oppression I'm seeking a Canadian or European
                              spouse...any takers?

                              "When machines and computers, profit motives and property rights are
                              considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism,
                              materialism, and militarism are incapable of being conquered." - Dr.
                              Martin Luther King

                              This OS/2 uptime is 1 d 20 h 18 m 17 seconds
                            • Jeff Lane
                              ... Of course not... I really didn t mean to imply that at all, but I can kinda see where that implication can come from. There are a lot of phrases that
                              Message 14 of 23 , Jan 18, 2005
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                                On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 15:07:46 +0000, ed <ed@...> wrote:

                                > Thats not limited to Linux though, if you yank the power out of any
                                > running system then expect the unexpected, (which of course then means
                                > the unexpected is now expected, back to square one - I never did
                                > understand the common use of the phrase).

                                Of course not... I really didn't mean to imply that at all, but I can
                                kinda see where that implication can come from. There are a lot of
                                phrases that really dont make sense... like the incorrect use of
                                literally...
                                "Oh dude, I literally puked my guts out after downing that whole
                                bottle of Thunderbird!"
                                "Ummm you did? How did you get them back in?"
                                "What are you talking about?"
                                "Your guts... you said you literally puked them out... how did you get
                                them back in?"

                                And many others... cut out the lights, etc etc... hehe.. the abuse of
                                the english language (of which I am guilty of as well) is amazing. I
                                really need to pick up the book "Eats, Shoots, and Leaves". Its all
                                about the incorrect use of grammar and punctuation and how that can
                                completely change the meaning of a phrase or sentence... and quite an
                                entertaining read, I have been told. But I digress...

                                > However NTFS/Ext3/Reiserfs/XFS have their own methods of helpful
                                > prevention, but if in the middle of replacing a kernel image you may
                                > have some peculiar results and one's imagination can only hint at what
                                > may be the end result.

                                Oh yes, and I love Ext3. I have never tried XFS, and have only used
                                Reiserfs here at work when doing SuSE testing, but I have used Ext3 on
                                all my Red Hat machines since it was first available. It is a Godsend
                                for laptops. I used to really hate having to fsck my hard drive every
                                time my laptop went into hibernate, or the battery died... now with
                                Ext3, I can turn it off, turn it on, yank the battery, or whatever,
                                and 95% of the time suffer no ill consequenses.

                                NTFS is good for that too, but I have never been a big fan of NFTS...
                                seems too... I dunno... maybe sluggish, or maybe just too much
                                overhead, or something. I really cant say. Then again, that may also
                                be simply my OS zealotry and aversion to all things Microsoft, even
                                though I do have an XP machine at home I use for the classes I take
                                that require MS stuff.

                                Also, he said that he was running 7.2, which is when Red Hat FIRST
                                introduced Ext3 to the OS. I dont recall if it was the default
                                filesystem, or if Ext2 was default with Ext3 as an option. I seem to
                                think that it was the latter, but either way, the first version of
                                Ext3 on Red Hat, at least, was far from trouble free...

                                Jeff


                                --
                                ------------------> Jeffrey Lane - W4KDH <-------------------
                                www.jefflane.org
                                Yet another IT Ronin

                                The internet has no government, no constitution, no laws, no
                                rights, no police, no courts. Don't talk about fairness or
                                innocence, and don't talk about what should be done. Instead,
                                talk about what is being done and what will be done by the
                                amorphous unreachable undefinable blob called "the internet
                                user base." -Paul Vixie
                              • Jeff Lane
                                ... Thansk for that! I haven t seen some of those in ages, not since I stopped messing with IRC and USENET... hehehe... PDNFTT... or at least variations of
                                Message 15 of 23 , Jan 18, 2005
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                                  On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 16:29:12 +0100, Godwin Stewart <gstewart@...> wrote:
                                  > FYI and FWIW I just put up a page with some commonly used acronyms.
                                  >
                                  > http://linux.sgms-centre.com/misc/acronyms.php

                                  Thansk for that! I haven't seen some of those in ages, not since I
                                  stopped messing with IRC and USENET... hehehe...

                                  PDNFTT... or at least variations of that... ahhhh good times....

                                  jeff
                                  --
                                  ------------------> Jeffrey Lane - W4KDH <-------------------
                                  www.jefflane.org
                                  Yet another IT Ronin

                                  The internet has no government, no constitution, no laws, no
                                  rights, no police, no courts. Don't talk about fairness or
                                  innocence, and don't talk about what should be done. Instead,
                                  talk about what is being done and what will be done by the
                                  amorphous unreachable undefinable blob called "the internet
                                  user base." -Paul Vixie
                                • ed
                                  On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 11:02:18 -0500 ... How often do you hear me screaming You crazy *** get off the road every time I use the roads? ... Now this one I am
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Jan 18, 2005
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                                    On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 11:02:18 -0500
                                    Davey Brain <dsbrain@...> wrote:

                                    > My auto mechanic brother-in-law always says "The weakest part of any
                                    > automobile is the nut the holds the steering wheel." I guess by
                                    > extension that might be applied to computers also: "The weakest part
                                    > of any computer system is the nut that holds the mouse or touches the

                                    How often do you hear me screaming "You crazy *** get off the road"
                                    every time I use the roads?

                                    > keys." It's like reminding people, "Please ensure that the brain is in
                                    > gear before engaging the mouth (or the fingers in the case of email)."

                                    Now this one I am guilty of. I have mv /dev/foot /dev/mouth many times,
                                    but of late I spend half a second or so chewing something before I
                                    speak. Works wonders, but not flawless.

                                    Ed.
                                  • ed
                                    On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 11:06:49 -0500 ... Debian! Just apt-get the xfs utils and enable XFS in the kernel. Note that you need to add quota support for XFS. I
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Jan 18, 2005
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                                      On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 11:06:49 -0500
                                      Jeff Lane <sundowner225@...> wrote:

                                      > Also, he said that he was running 7.2, which is when Red Hat FIRST
                                      > introduced Ext3 to the OS. I dont recall if it was the default
                                      > filesystem, or if Ext2 was default with Ext3 as an option. I seem to
                                      > think that it was the latter, but either way, the first version of
                                      > Ext3 on Red Hat, at least, was far from trouble free...

                                      Debian!

                                      Just apt-get the xfs utils and enable XFS in the kernel. Note that you
                                      need to add quota support for XFS. I think wolf dreamer on this list has
                                      better knowledge of file systems than I do, but from what I experience
                                      its a little bit faster than ReiserFS, which is a little bit faster than
                                      XFS, for the majority of what I do. They are very closely matched. Ext3
                                      is a little bit slower than Ext2 IMO as it has journals to update, but
                                      its hardly noticeable.

                                      Debian enables the user to start with an XFS file system, which in
                                      versions previous to 3.0 was not possible from the installer and I would
                                      have left some space for a /home partition as XFS or ReiserFS. I only
                                      like Reiser as it was in Slackware some time ago and I liked the way
                                      that the HDD would make efficient noises as it hunted for data.
                                    • Jeff Lane
                                      ... Must be nice... the only time my hard disks ever made any noise was when my main storage drive on my little home server (no I dont run raid, I know, I
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Jan 18, 2005
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                                        On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 18:55:16 +0000, ed <ed@...> wrote:


                                        > like Reiser as it was in Slackware some time ago and I liked the way
                                        > that the HDD would make efficient noises as it hunted for data.

                                        Must be nice... the only time my hard disks ever made any noise was
                                        when my main storage drive on my little home server (no I dont run
                                        raid, I know, I know) was screaming its death throes. I had never
                                        heard a hard disk make that pequiliar noise before... it almost
                                        sounded like a burlap sack full of cats...

                                        anyway...

                                        I have read stuff that point to basically what you are saying. I had
                                        learned a long time ago about how, for the most part, ext3 is a bit
                                        slower than XFS and Reiserfs, or even JFS (IIRC), but to be honest, I
                                        dont really do any kind of testing that would demonstrate any
                                        difference in speeds of the file systems (thank goodness... I would
                                        hate to have to set that up every day)...and for home use I have
                                        traditionally only used Red Hat, with a smattering of Debian, SuSE,
                                        Mandrake and Slackware as the mood hit me.

                                        Right now I am getting ready to do a Gentoo install, though, which has
                                        my current interest.

                                        --
                                        ------------------> Jeffrey Lane - W4KDH <-------------------
                                        www.jefflane.org
                                        Yet another IT Ronin

                                        The internet has no government, no constitution, no laws, no
                                        rights, no police, no courts. Don't talk about fairness or
                                        innocence, and don't talk about what should be done. Instead,
                                        talk about what is being done and what will be done by the
                                        amorphous unreachable undefinable blob called "the internet
                                        user base." -Paul Vixie
                                      • ed
                                        On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 15:28:36 -0500 ... I have a friend who talks about the click of death. He is the type of person who has to own the cutting edge of disks,
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Jan 18, 2005
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                                          On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 15:28:36 -0500
                                          Jeff Lane <sundowner225@...> wrote:

                                          > Must be nice... the only time my hard disks ever made any noise was
                                          > when my main storage drive on my little home server (no I dont run
                                          > raid, I know, I know) was screaming its death throes. I had never
                                          > heard a hard disk make that pequiliar noise before... it almost
                                          > sounded like a burlap sack full of cats...

                                          I have a friend who talks about the click of death. He is the type of
                                          person who has to own the cutting edge of disks, consequently they fail
                                          before the average since they're so new.

                                          > anyway...
                                          >
                                          > I have read stuff that point to basically what you are saying. I had
                                          > learned a long time ago about how, for the most part, ext3 is a bit
                                          > slower than XFS and Reiserfs, or even JFS (IIRC), but to be honest, I
                                          > dont really do any kind of testing that would demonstrate any
                                          > difference in speeds of the file systems (thank goodness... I would
                                          > hate to have to set that up every day)...and for home use I have
                                          > traditionally only used Red Hat, with a smattering of Debian, SuSE,
                                          > Mandrake and Slackware as the mood hit me.

                                          I've never used JFS, but I am looking into AFS (Andrew's File System),
                                          which should be interesting.

                                          > Right now I am getting ready to do a Gentoo install, though, which has
                                          > my current interest.

                                          Its kinda off topic, but it may be worth having a glance over
                                          http://funroll-loops.org/, although emerge kinda takes all the fun out
                                          of LFS.

                                          Ed.
                                        • Mostafa Ismail
                                          [ Subject line trimmed. Top post corrected. AFAIK answered. - Moderator ] ... First now i have the answer about what is the PEBKAC, but what doses AFAIK mean ?
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Jan 18, 2005
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                                            [ Subject line trimmed. Top post corrected. AFAIK answered. - Moderator ]

                                            Jeff Lane <sundowner225@...> wrote:
                                            | 2a. 85% of all Linux issues are PEBKAC issues, and the other RH7.2 is ancient
                                            | by IS/IT standards, and AFAIK no one is providing updates for it.

                                            First now i have the answer about what is the PEBKAC, but what doses AFAIK mean ?
                                            [ AFAIK is short for "as far as I know". - Moderator ]

                                            Second about booting problem im sure that is not bad shutdown or some thing related with shutdown/reboot issue, but i guess it's an error at LPD daemon or related thing with LPd that may raised will LPD daemon started, so i suggest that he can boot at interactive mode and don't start LPD and just login in order to fix his problem or the second solution is booting at rescue mode to get an prompt then navigating his system (log files, syslog ,.... ) to see what happen.

                                            Best Regards,
                                            Mostafa Ismail
                                          • Germ�n Andr�s Pulido F.
                                            ======== Unnecessary content stripped by moderator. ======== ... I don t think it s an LPD issue. From the original e-mail, the machine hangs at: Starting LPD:
                                            Message 21 of 23 , Jan 19, 2005
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                                              ========
                                              Unnecessary content stripped by moderator.
                                              ========

                                              Mostafa Ismail wrote:

                                              > Second about booting problem im sure that is not bad shutdown or some thing
                                              > related with shutdown/reboot issue, but i guess it's an error at LPD daemon or
                                              > related thing with LPd that may raised will LPD daemon started,

                                              I don't think it's an LPD issue. From the original e-mail, the machine
                                              hangs at:

                                              Starting LPD: [OK]

                                              So LPD starts OK. The issue is later, I think.

                                              Regards.
                                            • Jeff Lane
                                              On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 23:09:30 -0800 (PST), Mostafa Ismail ... Ummm thats what I said on my very first reply... ;-) well, at least as far as interactive startup.
                                              Message 22 of 23 , Jan 19, 2005
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                                                On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 23:09:30 -0800 (PST), Mostafa Ismail
                                                <haics3@...> wrote:

                                                > Second about booting problem im sure that is not bad shutdown or some thing related with >shutdown/reboot issue, but i guess it's an error at LPD daemon or related thing with LPd that >may raised will LPD daemon started, so i suggest that he can boot at interactive mode and >don't start LPD and just login in order to fix his problem or the second solution is booting at >rescue mode to get an prompt then navigating his system (log files, syslog ,.... ) to see what >happen.

                                                Ummm thats what I said on my very first reply... ;-) well, at least as
                                                far as interactive startup. I really hate getting too involved in
                                                trying to fix something without first knowing a goodly amount of
                                                detail on what the problem is, as well as the machine specifics, etc.

                                                Another thought, and just a real shot in the dark, try passing
                                                acpi=off or acpi=noirq to the kernel at boot time. It will probably
                                                not solve this issue, as from what I can guess by the limited amount
                                                of info provided, it WAS working previously after install... but that
                                                was never made clear, so who knows?

                                                In any case, I have found that ACPI, especially in versions of Red Hat
                                                predating RH9 can cause all sorts of wonkiness, and some machines just
                                                cant handle it. I have also noticed that ACPI behavior can be, shall
                                                we say, erratic, working one moment, and causing problems the next.
                                                Even today, when I test a distro on a machine, if I encounter a boot
                                                or installer problem that is not obvious, the first thing I do is
                                                disable acpi on the next boot to see if that clears it up. Many times
                                                it does, some times it does not. So, like I said, its a shot in the
                                                dark, but still worth trying. Either way, YMMV (that means Your
                                                Milage May Vary)

                                                Jeff

                                                --
                                                ------------------> Jeffrey Lane - W4KDH <-------------------
                                                www.jefflane.org
                                                Yet another IT Ronin

                                                The internet has no government, no constitution, no laws, no
                                                rights, no police, no courts. Don't talk about fairness or
                                                innocence, and don't talk about what should be done. Instead,
                                                talk about what is being done and what will be done by the
                                                amorphous unreachable undefinable blob called "the internet
                                                user base." -Paul Vixie
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