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RE: [Raw Food] Hi I am New

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  • Peter Gardiner
    Fred, Most certainly you have not upset me. Academically, scientifically and in dieting knowledge you are my superior. I share your love of the truth although
    Message 1 of 53 , Aug 24, 2003
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      Most certainly you have not upset me. Academically, scientifically and
      in dieting knowledge you are my superior.

      I share your love of the truth although I perceive the truth as having a
      shifting focus. Thus I pitch my efforts in varying directions to
      explore and test my perceptions.

      This makes truth even more important to me as I spend most of my life
      pursuing it. Moreover it changes. And the truth often starts with the
      right question. "What should I be eating?" is always a good question.
      The answer and the truth vary in accordance with individual

      On food combining, I confess I do the minimum of it. Recipes and
      smoothies I consider as being appropriate for those who are either not
      raw foodists or are in transition. However, I whip up mixtures in a
      juicer for guests as a pastime. I even throw an apple into a vegetable
      mixture to take the bitterness of a pure vegetables and make a
      concoction more palatable. Purists would abhor my heresy and hypocrisy,
      especially as I do no more than taste the concoctions I serve.

      The upshot is that my guests enthuse about fruit and vegetables. Is that
      breaking the rules is sometimes "right"?

      I look forward to reading more of your postings, Fred.


      -----Original Message-----
      From: fred lieberman [mailto:fred_lieberman@...]
      Sent: 01 September 2003 14:02
      To: rawfood@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [Raw Food] Hi I am New

      Hi Peter,

      If I have upset you and others, that was not my intension. I was upset
      with what I read and expressed my feelings.

      I have done a lot of things in my life, which includes being a farmer,
      special ed. teacher, even teaching Astronomy and Nutrition on a college
      level. I am scientifically oriented. Part of my education includes a
      BA in Chemistry and a MS in Biology. My MS major was Human Nutrition.
      I was in private practice for a decade as a Clinical Nutritionist, but
      never really practiced nutrition. My clients came in with complaints
      that no one could solve, so I ended up being a diagnostician and solving
      them. The most common causes of their complaints were reactions first
      to chemicals then to foods. For about three years, I held workshops
      training professionals (doctors, chiropractors, nurses, dentists,
      nutritionists...) and non-professionals (mothers whose children were
      labeled LD, ED, ADD...) how to identify and address these issues. I
      have even seen the energy coming out of my hands accelerate the healing

      What was the name of individual in Greek mythology who was in search for
      the one person who did not lie or distort the truth? Am I correct to
      assume that truth is important to you Peter? Truth is very important to
      me. That is where I am at this point in my life. When I do not hear it
      especially from so called experts, I get annoyed, even angry. I have
      been lied to all my life and I cannot always step aside and say: "So
      what." Maybe as I feel better, the distortions of others will no longer
      affect me.

      I am not putting Shelton down for his contributions to health during the
      time he made the contributions.

      What upset me were the inaccuracies stated on the web page.

      Distortion of the facts and perpetuation of myths upsets me. The three
      best examples of this are fluoride, cholesterol, and vitamins.

      Fluoride is a protoplasmic poison. It is as toxic as lead. Large
      populations are being forced to consume this substance all their life.
      The dangers far out way the so called minor benefits, which in reality,
      do not exit. To me, this is absurd. The myth began in the late 1930's
      by Gerald Cox, PhD, who worked for a branch of ALCOA. Fluoride is a
      byproduct of aluminum production.

      The cholesterol hypothesis can best be described as an experimentally
      generated disease. Hence perpetuation of the myth. The lesions created
      by the experiments do not represent the true pathology as it naturally
      occurs in humans. I read the experiments from the medical journals. The
      experiments are totally invalid. People are told to go on dangerous
      diets, dangerous medication, even niacin (which by the way is not a
      vitamin) to lower cholesterol levels.

      Over the counter vitamins are not vitamins. They are not the co-enzymes
      which bring life to the enzymes in our body. Biochemically speaking,
      structurally speaking, they are not in the right form to be considered a
      co-enzyme. In fact, B1 as we find it in enriched flour and many vitamin
      pills (thiamine mononitrate) as well as thiamine HCl cannot be converted
      to the co-enzyme by our body.

      I too had my guru's. They have all fallen by the waste side. None exist
      anymore. None of them chose to see the whole picture nor the individual
      as an individual.

      If my crime is not willing to accept untruths and distortion of the
      truth, then I am guilty.

      This is what I read on the website and this is what upset me.

      The web site http://chetday.com/fcnecess.html

      "...it important that we exercise some care not to take into the stomach
      at the same time foods requiring different and incompatible media...

      "Different Foods Require Different Digestive Tasks
      It is a fundamental fact in chemistry that alkalies and acids are
      opposites; that they neutralize each other. It is a fact in physiology
      that all starchy foods digest in an alkaline medium and the
      starch-splitting enzyme of the mouth (ptyalin or salivary amylase) is
      destroyed by acid, even a mild acid. Therefore, if acids are taken with
      starches, starch digestion is suspended. If breads or cereals or
      potatoes are eaten with berries or with citrus fruits, or with other
      acid-bearing foods, the digestion of these starches is delayed.

      The stomach is always acidic. If it is not acidic, you will get sick or
      are sick. The stomach is not the place where starches are supposed to be
      digested (hydrolyzed). The pancreatic juices do that in the small

      The purpose of acid in your stomach is to destroy microorganism, begin
      the digestion of protein, indirectly aid in B12 absorption (intrinsic
      factor production), and extract the minerals from the foods we eat.
      Protein signals the stomach to produce hydrochloric acid. Without the
      acid, none of the above will happen.

      With the above strategy, how did he expect to extract minerals from the
      grains? Since all food contains microorganisms, how was he going to
      prevent the wrong culture from getting started in the GI tract?

      "Eating Protein and Starches Together Begets Indigestion
      It is a fact of physiology that proteins require an acid medium for
      their digestion in the stomach. When proteins are eaten, acid is
      secreted to enable the enzyme, pepsin, to begin the work of protein
      digestion. Now, it is not possible for two processes, that of starch
      digestion requiring an alkaline medium for its digestion, and that of
      protein digestion requiring an acid medium for its accomplishment, to
      both go on in the same stomach at the same time, with any great
      efficiency. The rising acidity of the stomach will neutralize the
      saliva, destroy the salivary amylase, and bring starch digestion to a

      That is exactly what is supposed to happen.

      "If no protein is taken with the starch, no acid is poured into the
      stomach and starch digestion proceeds on schedule.

      In a health person, the stomach is always acidic. Otherwise, we run the
      risk of an infection. The stomach is not the place where starch should
      be digested. It occurs in the small intestine.

      "A Fundamental Rule
      The application of this fact of the physiology of digestion is plain:
      Eat starch foods at separate meals from acid foods and foods requiring
      acid in their digestion.

      Perpetuating the myth

      "Acid Indigestion Arises From Wrong Combinations

      I do not get indigestion. That means this statement is not universally
      true. I have gotten heartburn from cottonseed oil (pesticide residues)
      found in certain foods. I avoid those foods.

      In over a decade of seeing clients, I have never seen anyone with
      heartburn nor indigestion ever have a problem with combinations. It was
      always due to a chemical in a specific food they ate or a hiatal hernia.
      Once the first was avoided and the second was corrected (without
      surgery), the symptoms disappeared.

      "Retarded digestion favors fermentation and putrefaction of the foods

      Fermentation you want. That is how we obtain certain vitamins in our GI
      tract. Microorganisms in our digestive tract exist in a symbiotic
      relationship with us. We give them the environment and they support us.

      Putrefaction or rotting of foods can only occur in the presence of the
      wrong type of bacteria. (Check Louis Pasteur - 1822-1895)

      Wrong Food Combining Responsible For Much Suffering

      Not true. Weston Price (DDS) in the mid to late 20's proved it was
      processed foods. By 1930, our soils were depleted of minerals (Check the
      Empty Harvest by Anderson and Jensen). Pre-WWII, reactions to foods then
      to chemicals were major causes of illness. (Check out The Pulse Test -
      Arthur Coca, MD; and T. Randolph, MD, Father of Clinical Ecology).
      After WWII, we began to inhale and ingest large amounts of pesticides,
      fumigants, formaldehyde, plasticizers, hydrocarbons, chlorine, fluoride,
      and other toxic chemicals. In our current time frame, the chemicals we
      are exposed to are the major causes of our illness, not wrong food

      My mentors taught me that each person is different. One life style does
      not fit all condition and individuals. The person in front of me has all
      the answers. That is the way I treated each client I saw. In the 13
      years of seeing over 1000 clients and many who were not clients,
      performing over 48,000 individualized tests, the one conclusion I can
      state from experience is: the major cause of illness in our times is an
      exposure to one or more chemicals which our body is rejecting. These
      substances should not be there in first place.


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    • Peter Gardiner
      You echo my thoughts, Rufus. It always amazes me that animals have far simpler diets than humans. Somehow they survive without running after trace elements or
      Message 53 of 53 , Aug 28, 2003
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        You echo my thoughts, Rufus.

        It always amazes me that animals have far simpler diets than humans.
        Somehow they survive without running after trace elements or new recipes
        or veterinary surgeons. I find that the more I simplify my diet the
        richer it becomes.

        Was it Laurence Van der Post who said that to answer the big questions
        in life you need to look at nature?


        -----Original Message-----
        From: Rufus Shaw [mailto:rufus10_99@...]
        Sent: 05 September 2003 00:50
        To: rawfood@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [Raw Food] Hi I am New


        Very well said !

        I have been reading the recent threads, and although interesting, most
        of it was far too philosophical for me. I like to keep things as simple
        as possible; it always helps me understand what seem like complex

        As far as our diet goes, I think it's a lot more
        helpful to study mammal behavior, then to study

        Mammals like us eat only RAW foods. They eat lots of
        leafy greens, and seasonal fruit. The mono diet is
        natural because plants tend not to grow in too close a proximity, and
        are seasonal. I used to think that I had to eat kale, spinach, onions,
        tomatoes, olives, avocados act, all in one sitting, in order to get all
        my vitamins and minerals. In nature it would be more
        common to find a huge patch of kale, eat it for a few
        days and then walk on to find an avocado tree. We
        would then binge on avocados. In a few weeks we
        might find a citrus tree, and on and on.

        If you look at food in this light, then food combining
        is not an issue. I try to eat 4 mono meals per day.
        Fruit, greens, fruit, greens. I mix fats with my
        greens. I do not eat a lot of nuts, because they are
        very difficult to eat in the wild. Eating a raw nut
        is a lot of work. In the wild, we would not be able
        to sit down and eat fistfuls of almonds. Although
        mono meals don't seem very plush, they are. Imagine
        having to eat only what nature provides. We would be
        eating mono for days on end. We would also be subject
        to fasting when a food source ran out, or the season
        ended. Thus its clear that we are supposed to fast.

        Folks have gotten far too philosophical to me. Of
        course chemicals are bad. We should strive to ingest
        no chemicals at all. And of course food combination
        is important. But we don't need to make a huge deal
        out of either. Being human is not easy. We are so
        smart that we feel we need to make simple things very
        complex. I would think that people on this mailing
        list, are here because they want to learn how to eat
        raw foods. It's not too difficult, unless we make it

        For the new people, I recommend reading The Sun food
        Diet Success System, and eating raw foods. Don't
        expect to be 100% raw too quickly. Expect failure,
        and then you will not be disappointed. Try going a
        whole day RAW, and then 2, and then 3 and so on.
        Before you know it, it will become so painful to eat
        the SAD, and you feel so good eating RAW, that the
        transition will become natural.

        I have an interesting perspective, because I was an
        alcoholic, who smoked and drank lots of coffee. I also
        took a lot of prescription drugs. It has taken me an
        awful long time to transition, and progress is
        sometimes slow. Physically, I never imagined that I
        could ever feel this good, and a lot of life long
        problems have disappeared (Asthma, chronic fatigue,
        depression and anxiety).

        My experience has proved that green leafy veggies are
        very important for me, and it was difficult for me to
        eat enough. I was eating about 80% fruit (mostly
        sweet fruits). I then bought a Green Star juicer for
        greens (I already had a L'equip 221 for fruit). I
        drank a liter of chard, kale, collards ect every day
        for two days, and then the dam broke. I peed 15 times
        in 12 hours. I had two nights of very violent dreams,
        and then felt like I was on an other level. I lost 6
        lbs in 2 days, and felt reborn. If you are eating a
        lot of fruit, you might want to try it.

        Best luck to everyone, I enjoy this mailing list.


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