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For information (not a recommendation)

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  • tim.watt@netmatters.co.uk
    From: Kitsune Food inc. Newsgroups: alt.sport.track-field Subject: Track athletes wanted for sport posters NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 25
    Message 1 of 7 , Oct 2, 2001
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      From: "Kitsune Food inc." <info@...>
      Newsgroups: alt.sport.track-field
      Subject: Track athletes wanted for sport posters
      NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 17:28:13 EDT
      Organization: Bell Sympatico


      Good day ,

      My company Kitsune Foods Inc., is the developer and marketer for high
      energy, stamina & endurance products.

      http://www.fireballgel.com

      Fireball Energy Gel
      Atomic Blast lozenges
      Boost Gold Lozenges
      Madness Lozenges
      Immun-aid lozenges

      We are redesigning some of our retail posters for Canadian, USA, UK
      and European markets. I need athletes who want to be on the posters,
      as well we are expanding our grass route sales program and have
      openings for interested athletes & coaches to represent our product
      line to retailers & clubs. We can offer strong remuneration from
      occurring sales.

      *NOTE if purchasing product due to this posting, kindly make mention
      of it and email info@... where we will give a discount
      for product purchased direct.

      I look forward to your interests.

      Thank you
      Stefan Fox
      President
      Kitsune Foods Inc.



      For balance, here is some advice posted yesterday on UKAthletics'
      site:

      'A statement issued by the International Olympic Committee on 27
      September 2001 read as follows:

      The first extensive reports from the study ordered and funded by the
      IOC on 600 nutritional supplements show that some 15 to 20% of the
      products analysed contain non-labelled substances which could lead to
      a positive doping test.

      At this stage, the IOC Medical Commission can only recommend to
      athletes and their entourage not to take such products.'

      How helpful is that?? I suppose it is right that they warn athletes
      not to take stuff in the light of new information and they don't have
      watertight enough results yet to name the individual manufacturers,
      but they don't even an idea about what type of 'nutritional
      supplements' they have tested. It could be almost anything from a
      health store!

      Tim
    • Martin Rush
      Dear all I think Tims advice needs to be strengthend a little. Consider strongly whether you have maximised your training potential through hard work before
      Message 2 of 7 , Oct 2, 2001
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        Dear all

        I think Tims advice needs to be strengthend a little. Consider strongly
        whether you have maximised your training potential through hard work before
        going down the route of 'supplements'. No I am not saying walking 50K
        without carbohydrate intake is a positive idea but beyond use of iron and
        'pure' carbo supplements from very reputable British (easier to sue if in
        your own back yard), named, suppliers think very carefully.

        I have attached the original mail relating to the '20% of all supplements'.
        You have been warned.


        Regards

        Martin Rush
        Regional Performance Manager SW



        >16:14:30 +0100
        >
        >
        >
        >-----Original Message-----
        >From: Rob Burgess
        >Sent: 20 September 2001 04:12 PM
        >To: ADD
        >Subject: info-20 per Cent of Supplements...
        >
        >
        >IOC: 20 per Cent of Supplements Contain Nandrolone
        >
        > _____
        >
        >Olympics - 20 September 2001
        >
        > _____
        >
        >Almost 20 per cent of 200 food supplements tested in an International
        >Olympic Committee study contain nandrolone, the banned anabolic steroid.
        >The results, reported yesterday, confirm earlier British studies which
        >suggested that some supplements have been the cause of recent nandrolone
        >findings.
        >
        >Dr Patrick Schamasch, the IOC's medical officer, expressed surprise at the
        >findings, saying that the IOC did not expect the figure to be so high. The
        >laboratory in Cologne, Germany that is conducting the study aims to test
        >about 600 over-the-counter products from all over the world.
        >
        >Schamasch said that none of the supplements carried warnings that they
        >might
        >contain nandrolone, which is banned in most international sports. He added
        >that it is extremely doubtful that the IOC will produce a list of approved
        >food supplements, because a branded product from one country might not
        >contain the same ingredients as the same branded product from a different
        >country.
        >
        >However, Schamasch warned: 'Athletes know this is a problem. If they want
        >to be clean, they don't have to take a supplement'.
        >
        >The IOC also said yesterday that all endurance-sport athletes will be blood
        >tested on their arrival at the Olympic Village in Salt Lake City before the
        >winter Olympic Games in February next year. If any of the competitors test
        >positive, they will undergo a further urine test for the
        >performance-enhancing substance EPO.
        >
        >
        >
        >-----------------------------------
        >Rob Burgess
        >Web Editor
        >UK Sport, UK Sports Institute
        >

        -----Original Message-----
        From: tim.watt@... [mailto:tim.watt@...]
        Sent: 02 October 2001 17:52
        To: racewalk@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [UK racewalk] For information (not a recommendation)


        From: "Kitsune Food inc." <info@...>
        Newsgroups: alt.sport.track-field
        Subject: Track athletes wanted for sport posters
        NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 17:28:13 EDT
        Organization: Bell Sympatico


        Good day ,

        My company Kitsune Foods Inc., is the developer and marketer for high
        energy, stamina & endurance products.

        http://www.fireballgel.com

        Fireball Energy Gel
        Atomic Blast lozenges
        Boost Gold Lozenges
        Madness Lozenges
        Immun-aid lozenges

        We are redesigning some of our retail posters for Canadian, USA, UK
        and European markets. I need athletes who want to be on the posters,
        as well we are expanding our grass route sales program and have
        openings for interested athletes & coaches to represent our product
        line to retailers & clubs. We can offer strong remuneration from
        occurring sales.

        *NOTE if purchasing product due to this posting, kindly make mention
        of it and email info@... where we will give a discount
        for product purchased direct.

        I look forward to your interests.

        Thank you
        Stefan Fox
        President
        Kitsune Foods Inc.



        For balance, here is some advice posted yesterday on UKAthletics'
        site:

        'A statement issued by the International Olympic Committee on 27
        September 2001 read as follows:

        The first extensive reports from the study ordered and funded by the
        IOC on 600 nutritional supplements show that some 15 to 20% of the
        products analysed contain non-labelled substances which could lead to
        a positive doping test.

        At this stage, the IOC Medical Commission can only recommend to
        athletes and their entourage not to take such products.'

        How helpful is that?? I suppose it is right that they warn athletes
        not to take stuff in the light of new information and they don't have
        watertight enough results yet to name the individual manufacturers,
        but they don't even an idea about what type of 'nutritional
        supplements' they have tested. It could be almost anything from a
        health store!

        Tim







        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

        DISCLAIMER: This email, together with any attachments, is for the exclusive
        and confidential use of the addressee(s). Any other distribution, use or
        reproduction without the sender's prior consent is unauthorised and
        prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient please delete the message
        (including attachments) from your computer and destroy any copies.
        Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not
        necessarily represent those of UK Athletics, unless otherwise specifically
        stated
      • Tim Watt
        Thanks Martin for that extra info. Things look like they will develop further on this issue, especially with outstanding high profile cases such as Edgar
        Message 3 of 7 , Oct 2, 2001
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          Thanks Martin for that extra info.

          Things look like they will develop further on this issue, especially with
          outstanding high profile cases such as Edgar Davids and Paolo Sosa.

          At the moment the IOC 'coverall' advice is all that can be said but it
          isn't sustainable; what is a 'supplement' for instance. I guess we all know
          the downright dodgy stuff marketed in GNC but does it cover all vitamins,
          cod liver oil, wheatgerm etc. etc. etc.??

          This has to be just a holding statement; otherwise they're just loading the
          burden unfairly onto the athletes, who they now admit, can become
          innocently positive. They also can't legally get away with refusing to name
          the contaminated products, they say they can't produce a 'white list' but
          there must be a public 'black list'.

          I guess the solution here is a sort of offical approval scheme, such as a
          British Standard kitemark (which will be difficult since the food market is
          unregulated and operates across borders) - otherwise the clean 80% of what
          must be quite a large industry has every right to sue the IOC. Or if they
          just ignore IOC rules that would just undermine the whole testing programme.

          I think I'll call Lausanne tomorrow....

          Tim

          (supplemented for this e-mail by one very large strawberry tiramisu).

          >Dear all
          >
          >I think Tims advice needs to be strengthend a little. Consider strongly
          >whether you have maximised your training potential through hard work before
          >going down the route of 'supplements'. No I am not saying walking 50K
          >without carbohydrate intake is a positive idea but beyond use of iron and
          >'pure' carbo supplements from very reputable British (easier to sue if in
          >your own back yard), named, suppliers think very carefully.
          >
          >I have attached the original mail relating to the '20% of all supplements'.
          >You have been warned.
          >
          >
          >Regards
          >
          >Martin Rush
          >Regional Performance Manager SW
          >
          >
          >
          >>16:14:30 +0100
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>-----Original Message-----
          >>From: Rob Burgess
          >>Sent: 20 September 2001 04:12 PM
          >>To: ADD
          >>Subject: info-20 per Cent of Supplements...
          >>
          >>
          >>IOC: 20 per Cent of Supplements Contain Nandrolone
          >>
          >> _____
          >>
          >>Olympics - 20 September 2001
          >>
          >> _____
          >>
          >>Almost 20 per cent of 200 food supplements tested in an International
          >>Olympic Committee study contain nandrolone, the banned anabolic steroid.
          >>The results, reported yesterday, confirm earlier British studies which
          >>suggested that some supplements have been the cause of recent nandrolone
          >>findings.
          >>
          >>Dr Patrick Schamasch, the IOC's medical officer, expressed surprise at the
          >>findings, saying that the IOC did not expect the figure to be so high. The
          >>laboratory in Cologne, Germany that is conducting the study aims to test
          >>about 600 over-the-counter products from all over the world.
          >>
          >>Schamasch said that none of the supplements carried warnings that they
          >>might
          >>contain nandrolone, which is banned in most international sports. He added
          >>that it is extremely doubtful that the IOC will produce a list of approved
          >>food supplements, because a branded product from one country might not
          >>contain the same ingredients as the same branded product from a different
          >>country.
          >>
          >>However, Schamasch warned: 'Athletes know this is a problem. If they want
          >>to be clean, they don't have to take a supplement'.
          >>
          >>The IOC also said yesterday that all endurance-sport athletes will be blood
          >>tested on their arrival at the Olympic Village in Salt Lake City before the
          >>winter Olympic Games in February next year. If any of the competitors test
          >>positive, they will undergo a further urine test for the
          >>performance-enhancing substance EPO.
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>-----------------------------------
          >>Rob Burgess
          >>Web Editor
          >>UK Sport, UK Sports Institute
          >>
          >
          >-----Original Message-----
          >From: tim.watt@... [mailto:tim.watt@...]
          >Sent: 02 October 2001 17:52
          >To: racewalk@yahoogroups.com
          >Subject: [UK racewalk] For information (not a recommendation)
          >
          >
          >From: "Kitsune Food inc." <info@...>
          >Newsgroups: alt.sport.track-field
          >Subject: Track athletes wanted for sport posters
          >NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 17:28:13 EDT
          >Organization: Bell Sympatico
          >
          >
          >Good day ,
          >
          >My company Kitsune Foods Inc., is the developer and marketer for high
          >energy, stamina & endurance products.
          >
          >http://www.fireballgel.com
          >
          >Fireball Energy Gel
          >Atomic Blast lozenges
          >Boost Gold Lozenges
          >Madness Lozenges
          >Immun-aid lozenges
          >
          >We are redesigning some of our retail posters for Canadian, USA, UK
          >and European markets. I need athletes who want to be on the posters,
          >as well we are expanding our grass route sales program and have
          >openings for interested athletes & coaches to represent our product
          >line to retailers & clubs. We can offer strong remuneration from
          >occurring sales.
          >
          >*NOTE if purchasing product due to this posting, kindly make mention
          >of it and email info@... where we will give a discount
          >for product purchased direct.
          >
          >I look forward to your interests.
          >
          >Thank you
          >Stefan Fox
          >President
          >Kitsune Foods Inc.
          >
          >
          >
          >For balance, here is some advice posted yesterday on UKAthletics'
          >site:
          >
          >'A statement issued by the International Olympic Committee on 27
          >September 2001 read as follows:
          >
          >The first extensive reports from the study ordered and funded by the
          >IOC on 600 nutritional supplements show that some 15 to 20% of the
          >products analysed contain non-labelled substances which could lead to
          >a positive doping test.
          >
          >At this stage, the IOC Medical Commission can only recommend to
          >athletes and their entourage not to take such products.'
          >
          >How helpful is that?? I suppose it is right that they warn athletes
          >not to take stuff in the light of new information and they don't have
          >watertight enough results yet to name the individual manufacturers,
          >but they don't even an idea about what type of 'nutritional
          >supplements' they have tested. It could be almost anything from a
          >health store!
          >
          >Tim
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >DISCLAIMER: This email, together with any attachments, is for the exclusive
          >and confidential use of the addressee(s). Any other distribution, use or
          >reproduction without the sender's prior consent is unauthorised and
          >prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient please delete the message
          >(including attachments) from your computer and destroy any copies.
          >Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not
          >necessarily represent those of UK Athletics, unless otherwise specifically
          >stated
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        • Andidrake@aol.com
          My advice to any athlete, endurance in particular, is that the ONLY supplements that they should consider using are isotonic and/or carbohydrate drinks. And
          Message 4 of 7 , Oct 2, 2001
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            My advice to any athlete, endurance in particular, is that the ONLY supplements that they should consider using are isotonic and/or carbohydrate drinks.  And then from the big name companies.  The vast majority of other stuff on the shelves of your local Holland & Barrett or GNC is garbage, backed by spurious claims and pseudo science.

            Why the big names?  Asker Juekendrup, UKA Nutritionist, advises that they tend to have better quality control over the actual carbo/sodium content, which is very important in mixing to make isotonic/hypotonic solutions.

            Beyond carbo drinks there isn't much of a list of beneficial and safe products.  If you care to argue otherwise I'm afraid you would fail level III exercise physiology & biochemistry and sports nutrition modules at Coventry University.

            Cheers,

            Andi

            PS my cupboard currently has PSPP carbo drink by Science in Sport and Gatorade isotonic - next to the bread and jam, which also works as a pre-exercise carbo fuel and is somewhat cheaper....

            Andrew Drake
            National Potential Coach: Race Walking
            UK Athletics

            Sport and Exercise Science
            Coventry University
            CV1 5FB

            http://www.nes.coventry.ac.uk/modules/research/andi.html
            http://www.nes.coventry.ac.uk/modules/research/conandi.html

            Tel. 024 7688 7609 (w); 07720393609 (m)
          • Tim Watt
            Obviously those in positions of responsibilty need to give clear advice and feel a need to err on the side of caution. However, in reality there are a whole
            Message 5 of 7 , Oct 2, 2001
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              Obviously those in positions of responsibilty need to give clear advice and
              feel a need to err on the side of caution. However, in reality there are a
              whole host of grey areas. Whether or not any supplement works or not is
              irrelevant to this discussion on drugs/possible false positives; if they
              are classified as foods then anyone has the right to buy what expensive
              junk they like so long as it isn't harmful. Also any absolute statement is
              suspicious - I'm no expert but I thought some supplements do work for their
              advertised purpose; eg Creatine (which isn't banned because it occurs
              naturally) and, as Martin says, Iron supplements for those with a
              dificiency. My point is that the IOC has to produce a realistic position
              (very soon) as it can't hide behind the warning not to consume products
              that are not on any specified banned list. At least they have to be more
              specific about wah tsupplements they're warning against.

              If we want to go futher into a drugs discussion; why are IOC also acting so
              strongly against asthma relieving medications such as Ventolin when there
              is no evidence that they have any performance enhancing effect? They do
              have a life saving effect. Sounds like a distraction for lack of progress
              on the real problems of EPO/testosterone/HGH etc:

              >The IOC also said yesterday that all endurance-sport athletes will be blood
              >tested on their arrival at the Olympic Village in Salt Lake City before the
              >winter Olympic Games in February next year. If any of the competitors test
              >positive, they will undergo a further urine test for the
              >performance-enhancing substance EPO.

              The cheaters are well ahead here, this blood test is easily passed with
              blood thinners (I read somewhere that the average RBC in the Giro d'Italia
              was just 45%) and other drugs are reportedly being used with similar or
              additional effects.

              There are more important issues to be addressed in the world right now, but
              impractical, unrealistic advice just adds to the confusion. If IOC decide
              not to publish the results of these tests including the names of the
              products that are contaminated then it will prove they are putting their
              own legal position above the interests of athletes (I just thought I'd be
              the first to lay out the conspiracy theory before it happens).

              Tim

              Tim



              >My advice to any athlete, endurance in particular, is that the ONLY
              >supplements that they should consider using are isotonic and/or
              >carbohydrate drinks. And then from the big name companies. The vast
              >majority of other stuff on the shelves of your local Holland & Barrett or
              >GNC is garbage, backed by spurious claims and pseudo science.
              >
              >Why the big names? Asker Juekendrup, UKA Nutritionist, advises that they
              >tend to have better quality control over the actual carbo/sodium content,
              >which is very important in mixing to make isotonic/hypotonic solutions.
              >
              >Beyond carbo drinks there isn't much of a list of beneficial and safe
              >products. If you care to argue otherwise I'm afraid you would fail level
              >III exercise physiology & biochemistry and sports nutrition modules at
              >Coventry University.
              >
              >Cheers,
              >
              >Andi
              >
              >PS my cupboard currently has PSPP carbo drink by Science in Sport and
              >Gatorade isotonic - next to the bread and jam, which also works as a
              >pre-exercise carbo fuel and is somewhat cheaper....
              >
              >Andrew Drake
              >National Potential Coach: Race Walking
              >UK Athletics
              >
              >Sport and Exercise Science
              >Coventry University
              >CV1 5FB
              >
              >http://www.nes.coventry.ac.uk/modules/research/andi.html
              >http://www.nes.coventry.ac.uk/modules/research/conandi.html
              >
              >Tel. 024 7688 7609 (w); 07720393609 (m)
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            • Andidrake@aol.com
              Creatine may well be an effective supplement for an athlete competing in sports that require multiple sprints, e.g. team games. For an endurance athlete it ll
              Message 6 of 7 , Oct 3, 2001
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                Creatine may well be an effective supplement for an athlete competing in sports that require multiple sprints, e.g. team games.  For an endurance athlete it'll just make you heavy and slow.

                The drug Salbutamol that is found in Ventolin has performance enhancing effects (anabolic), e.g. if you inhaled half of your inhaler instead of your reguler one or two sprays, hence the need for asthma sufferers to get a certificate from Dr Malcolm Brown at UKA as a drug test does not differentiate chronic abuse with legitimate medical need.

                The single biggest performance enhancer is called "going training" - I trust everyone on this list has done theirs today...

                Cheers,

                Andi


                Andrew Drake
                National Potential Coach: Race Walking
                UK Athletics

                Sport and Exercise Science
                Coventry University
                CV1 5FB

                http://www.nes.coventry.ac.uk/modules/research/andi.html
                http://www.nes.coventry.ac.uk/modules/research/conandi.html

                Tel. 024 7688 7609 (w); 07720393609 (m)
              • Graham White
                Should athletes be training full time? Those able to, have a much bigger advantage over those who have to work full time to support a family, than those who
                Message 7 of 7 , Nov 21, 2001
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                  Should athletes be training full time? Those able to, have a much bigger  advantage over those who have to work full time to support a family, than those who take drugs and train full time over them.
                   
                  Point is a line has to be drawn somewhere. Some would argue that for recreational competion, no performance enhancing techniques should be used even training. On the same basis it can also be argued that professional athletes should be allowed to do what ever they need to do to perform, subject to the Health and Safety at Work legislation prevalent in the country of work (competition and training).
                   
                  The IOC stance has always been to protect the health of the athlete with cheating a secondary consideration. But how many athletes have been disabled, in the abscence of drug abuse, by injuries received through over training or the injury risks inherent in their event e.g. percussion injuries to the achillies tendon in hurdlers.
                   
                  Bye the way, this is probably a legal minefield as a recent judgement concluded that a sportsman in receipt of lottery support was not an employee of the sports governinig body. However, further back in time are judgements which concluded that a diver who recovers an outboard motor for a yachtie is not subject to HS at work legislation but if he accepts any reward, the diver is at work!
                   
                  If athletes were better funded and morelegally aware there coyuld be some rich pickings for some lawyers?
                   
                  :-)
                   
                  Graham
                   
                  THe points above are purely the opinion of the author and are ment to stimulate debate and are not a criticism of the evolving working frameworks of sport.
                   
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 9:19 PM
                  Subject: Re: [UK racewalk] For information (not a recommendation)

                  Creatine may well be an effective supplement for an athlete competing in sports that require multiple sprints, e.g. team games.  For an endurance athlete it'll just make you heavy and slow.

                  The drug Salbutamol that is found in Ventolin has performance enhancing effects (anabolic), e.g. if you inhaled half of your inhaler instead of your reguler one or two sprays, hence the need for asthma sufferers to get a certificate from Dr Malcolm Brown at UKA as a drug test does not differentiate chronic abuse with legitimate medical need.

                  The single biggest performance enhancer is called "going training" - I trust everyone on this list has done theirs today...

                  Cheers,

                  Andi


                  Andrew Drake
                  National Potential Coach: Race Walking
                  UK Athletics

                  Sport and Exercise Science
                  Coventry University
                  CV1 5FB

                  http://www.nes.coventry.ac.uk/modules/research/andi.html
                  http://www.nes.coventry.ac.uk/modules/research/conandi.html

                  Tel. 024 7688 7609 (w); 07720393609 (m)


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