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Re: [quenya] Please help me to understand...

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  • Gildor Inglorion
    teithant choken_se ... that person was based on anceint greek and latin syntax, assuming it would be right for Quenya too (but we dont
    Message 1 of 12 , Mar 1, 2003
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      teithant "choken_se <choken_se@...>"

      > And if it's an word exlusion, couldn't it be just:
      >
      > Ma harya-lye meldor?
      > Do have-you friends?
      >
      > Why allative?

      that person was based on anceint greek and latin
      syntax, assuming it would be right for Quenya too (but
      we dont have evidence about if this is right or wrong)

      _filoi moi eisin_ 'friends are (belong) to me' is an
      acceptable way to say 'i have friends' in ancient
      greek with dative (no allative in greek)

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    • Amelia Imperatrix
      ... Interesting! I only thought that construction worked in Arabic (_lii aSdiqaa u_ to me (are) friends ). Melde
      Message 2 of 12 , Mar 1, 2003
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        > tence "Gildor Inglorion" <elfiness@...>
        > > teithant "choken_se <choken_se@...>"
        > >
        > > And if it's an word exlusion, couldn't it be just:
        > >
        > > Ma harya-lye meldor?
        > > Do have-you friends?
        > >
        > > Why allative?
        >
        > that person was based on anceint greek and latin
        > syntax, assuming it would be right for Quenya too (but
        > we dont have evidence about if this is right or wrong)
        >
        > _filoi moi eisin_ 'friends are (belong) to me' is an
        > acceptable way to say 'i have friends' in ancient
        > greek with dative (no allative in greek)
        >

        Interesting! I only thought that construction worked in Arabic (_lii
        aSdiqaa'u_ "to me (are) friends").

        Melde
      • sshiskom <mathmaniac@hanmail.net>
        ... It works also in Korean. _naegeneun chinguga itda._ to me (topic) friend (subj) exist.
        Message 3 of 12 , Mar 1, 2003
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          "Amelia Imperatrix" wrote:

          > Interesting! I only thought that construction worked in Arabic
          > (_lii aSdiqaa'u_ "to me (are) friends").

          It works also in Korean. _naegeneun chinguga itda._ "to me (topic)
          friend (subj) exist."
        • sarah sarah
          I would like to cancel my membership to this club. how can i do this? ... I think that s a really bad translation. I d translate _Ma elyenna meldor_ as
          Message 4 of 12 , Mar 1, 2003
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            I would like to cancel my membership to this club. how can i do this?

             Kai MacTane <kmactane@...> wrote:

            At 2/28/03 07:46 PM , choken_se <choken_se@...> wrote:
            >I found a sentence:
            >
            >Ma elyenna meldor?
            >
            >Which is translated to:
            >
            >Do you have (any) friends?

            I think that's a really bad translation. I'd translate _Ma elyenna meldor_
            as "Friends to you?" (yeah, it's kind of broken English -- so what, it's
            kind of broken Elvish, too). To say "Do you have any friends?" I would
            actually use _Ma haryal(ye) (ai) meldor?_, or I might use _Nildor_ or
            _nilmor_ for "friends".

            >Is this a case of then you are alowed to exlude the verb/predicate in
            >the sentence.

            No, that trick only works when the verb is "to be". You can't just randomly
            exclude verbs, in Quenya or in any language, and expect people to know what
            you mean.

            >And if it's an word exlusion, couldn't it be just:
            >
            >Ma harya-lye meldor?
            >Do have-you friends?

            Oh, I hadn't read this far when I wrote the above. Yes, you have a better
            grasp of Quenya (IMHO) than whoever wrote _Ma elyenna meldor_.

            >Why allative?

            I can't think of any good reason. Allative should only be used for actual
            physical (or possibly temporal) motion.

                                                             --Kai MacTane
            ----------------------------------------------------------------------
            "And when I squinted/The world seemed rose-tinted;
              Angels appeared to descend..."
                                                             --Depeche Mode,
                                                              "Waiting for the Night"



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          • amanibhavam
            ... It also works in Hungarian. _nekem van barátom_ to me there is a friend . Bye, Amanibhavam __________________________________________________ Do you
            Message 5 of 12 , Mar 3, 2003
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              --- Gildor Inglorion <elfiness@...> wrote:
              > teithant "choken_se <choken_se@...>"
              >
              > > And if it's an word exlusion, couldn't it be just:
              > >
              > > Ma harya-lye meldor?
              > > Do have-you friends?
              > >
              > > Why allative?
              >
              > that person was based on anceint greek and latin
              > syntax, assuming it would be right for Quenya too
              > (but
              > we dont have evidence about if this is right or
              > wrong)
              >
              > _filoi moi eisin_ 'friends are (belong) to me' is an
              > acceptable way to say 'i have friends' in ancient
              > greek with dative (no allative in greek)
              >

              It also works in Hungarian. _nekem van bar�tom_ "to me
              there is a friend".

              Bye,

              Amanibhavam

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            • amanibhavam
              send an empty message to quenya-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ... __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms,
              Message 6 of 12 , Mar 3, 2003
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                send an empty message to
                quenya-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                --- sarah sarah <dirtyrice90@...> wrote:
                >
                > I would like to cancel my membership to this club.
                > how can i do this?


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              • amanibhavam
                ... Séyas quen pole hire enta axan limbe lambessen. Sie polima ná sa quen pole yuhtas lambesse Quenya yando. Amanibhavam
                Message 7 of 12 , Mar 3, 2003
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                  --- "sshiskom <mathmaniac@...>"
                  <mathmaniac@...> wrote:
                  > "Amelia Imperatrix" wrote:
                  >
                  > > Interesting! I only thought that construction
                  > worked in Arabic
                  > > (_lii aSdiqaa'u_ "to me (are) friends").
                  >
                  > It works also in Korean. _naegeneun chinguga itda._
                  > "to me (topic)
                  > friend (subj) exist."
                  >

                  S�yas quen pole hire enta axan limbe lambessen. Sie
                  polima n� sa quen pole yuhtas lambesse Quenya yando.

                  Amanibhavam

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                • choken_se <choken_se@yahoo.se>
                  ... or ... /Thanks...
                  Message 8 of 12 , Mar 3, 2003
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                    --- In quenya@yahoogroups.com, Kai MacTane <kmactane@g...> wrote:
                    > At 2/28/03 07:46 PM , choken_se <choken_se@y...> wrote:
                    > >I found a sentence:
                    > >
                    > >Ma elyenna meldor?
                    > actually use _Ma haryal(ye) (ai) meldor?_, or I might use _Nildor_
                    or
                    > _nilmor_ for "friends".
                    >

                    /Thanks...
                  • choken_se <choken_se@yahoo.se>
                    ... /Thanks for all ChOken PS Amanibhavam - I ll translate your sentence as fast as I get the time for it DS
                    Message 9 of 12 , Mar 3, 2003
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                      --- In quenya@yahoogroups.com, amanibhavam <percival64@y...> wrote:
                      > --- "sshiskom <mathmaniac@h...>"
                      > <mathmaniac@h...> wrote:
                      > > "Amelia Imperatrix" wrote:
                      > >
                      > > > Interesting! I only thought that construction
                      > > worked in Arabic
                      > > > (_lii aSdiqaa'u_ "to me (are) friends").
                      > >
                      > > It works also in Korean. _naegeneun chinguga itda._
                      > > "to me (topic)
                      > > friend (subj) exist."
                      > >
                      >
                      > Séyas quen pole hire enta axan limbe lambessen. Sie
                      > polima ná sa quen pole yuhtas lambesse Quenya yando.
                      >
                      > Amanibhavam

                      /Thanks for all
                      ChOken

                      PS
                      Amanibhavam - I'll translate your sentence as fast as I get the time
                      for it
                      DS
                    • choken_se <choken_se@yahoo.se>
                      ... / Thanks for all *s*
                      Message 10 of 12 , Mar 3, 2003
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                        --- In quenya@yahoogroups.com, Gildor Inglorion <elfiness@y...> wrote:
                        > teithant "choken_se <choken_se@y...>"
                        >
                        > > And if it's an word exlusion, couldn't it be just:
                        > >
                        > > Ma harya-lye meldor?
                        > > Do have-you friends?
                        > >
                        > > Why allative?
                        >
                        > that person was based on anceint greek and latin
                        > syntax, assuming it would be right for Quenya too (but
                        > we dont have evidence about if this is right or wrong)
                        >
                        > _filoi moi eisin_ 'friends are (belong) to me' is an
                        > acceptable way to say 'i have friends' in ancient
                        > greek with dative (no allative in greek)
                        >


                        / Thanks for all *s*
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