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[quenya] Re:Olos wilindyo

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  • Didier Willis
    (This small text was also cross-posted to a French forum, where it was discussed with Greg Tirno . By the way, the dream is actually true. I made it several
    Message 1 of 2 , Mar 19, 2000
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      (This small text was also cross-posted to a French forum,
      where it was discussed with Greg "Tirno". By the way, the
      dream is actually true. I made it several years ago, while
      I still was a student. I was under heavy pressure, having
      just published a short story in my school's journal, and
      I was simultaneously writing an article about K. Fonstad's
      Atlas. Hence the dream, perhaps?)

      > > Íre nessima, óla ninna heruo nyarnaron,
      > When young, I dream [read dreamt?] about a lord of stories,

      Read _ólane nin_, in past tense, and probably with the
      "object" in dative case instead of allative (but we don't
      know).

      >
      > > quentaró parmaron nelde,
      > a narrator of three books,

      Read _quentaro_ (genitive, not marked morphologically
      for such nouns in -o)

      > > hamila tálesse aldo, mi usque asearon róma-lóteva.
      > sitting at the foot [read _talesse_] of a tree, in reek of
      > [kings]foils of a horn-flower [???]

      "in the smoke of tobacco". Sindarin _romloth_ occurs in
      David Salo's word-list, though I was not able to find the
      reference.

      (In my dream, Tolkien was smoking, with his pipe in hand,
      *exactly* as he appears on a well-known picture of him;-)

      > > Nán inye varya lá quete...
      > But I protect not speak.. [sic - read _verya_ for _varya_
      > and translate "but I *dare* not speak..."???]

      Yes. Also read _veryane_ in the past tense.

      > Amaure tulle, calima anaróre, ar metyanes olorinya...
      > Dawn [read amaurea] came, bright sunrise, and it put an end
      > to my dream...

      I was under the impression that _amaurea_ was actually
      an adjective. But MR states it to be a noun, apparently.

      > > *_as_ "with" (reconstructed from S. _ah_)
      >
      > So you would read _Athrabeth Finrod ah [< *as] Andreth_ as
      > "Finrod's debate WITH Andreth"?

      Well, I can hardly discuss this here, but it seems all the
      more probable. Until we know for sure, S. _ah_ and Q. *_as_
      seem a good choice for "with".

      While I am at it, I also suggest that the dative case could
      perhaps be used in some circumstances to express "against"
      (instead of the usual "for"), as it was done sometimes in
      Old Greek:

      makhestai "to combat, to fight against" + dative
      orgizesthai "to get angry at" + dative

      More generally, if we consider that the Quenya dative may
      be used *exactly* as in Greek, then there are some rather
      interesting possibilities:

      - ideas of hostility or kindness: the two above-mentioned
      verds; "to envy s.o." (phthonein), "to agree with s.o"
      (sumphronein)...

      - ideas of prayer or assistance: "to help s.o." (boEthein),
      "to defend s.o or s.thing" (amunein), "to pray"
      (eukhesthai)...

      - ideas of obedience: "to obey" (hupakouein), "to serve"
      (hupEretein)...

      So we could perhaps write for instance:

      mahtante eldain "they fight against the Eldar"
      *beuyante eldain "they serve the Eldar"

      (would *_beuya_ be a correct form in Quenya? Tolkien only
      lists it as a primitive root).

      Wilindyo.
    • Greg Dyke
      ... A slip on your part, maybe, or just my miscomprehension... BEW - PQ _*beuya_ - Q _veuya_, I suppose. Tirno AKA Greg P.S. If there is any more follow-up
      Message 2 of 2 , Mar 20, 2000
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        >So we could perhaps write for instance:
        >
        > mahtante eldain "they fight against the Eldar"
        > *beuyante eldain "they serve the Eldar"
        >
        >(would *_beuya_ be a correct form in Quenya? Tolkien only
        >lists it as a primitive root).
        >
        >Wilindyo.

        A slip on your part, maybe, or just my miscomprehension...

        BEW -> PQ _*beuya_ -> Q _veuya_, I suppose.

        Tirno AKA Greg

        P.S. If there is any more follow-up on this, we should move it to Elfling.
        >


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